Stupid idea I know won't work...

Patsfanin Philly said:

If I were the agent representing pick #33, I'd argue they he deserves the slotting, salary and advantages of pick #32 since he was the 32nd player taken.....

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Two things here:

(1) The CBA specifically makes a distinction between first-round picks and non-first-round picks, so this is a moot point negotiation-wise.

(2) Given the choice, would you rather be "#32" (where the team has a fifth-year option) or "#33" (where the team doesn't)?

I still think the best way to raise the middle finger to these guys would be to have a public in-game demonstration on what really happens to football PSI when they are left out in cold rainy weather. Recreate the scenario of the 2014 AFC Championship game and take measurements before the game and then at halftime and show all PSI measurements on the jumbotron in front of 70,000 people at the game and millions on TV.

Not sure why this hasn't happened yet but it should.

The favorable public perception is the very last thing 345 Park Avenue wants to lose. Hence hiding the PSI measurements this season. So why not rip it out of their hands? Maybe it will get Goodell fired so all the better.

lurker1965 said:

Thanks.
If asking a question gets me ignored by you, then I obviously am not interested in what your highness was selling.
Thanks for outing yourself as a self-important "person."

BTW, Strawman much? I specifically said there was something wrong with it, not that the Patriots will do it. How the heck Ted Cruz got into it I can't even guess.

Oh, if we are talking politics now vote Libertarian.

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He's all in for CRUZ 2016! Just pretending not to avoid pissing off the wife.

PatsWickedPissah said:

He's all in for CRUZ 2016! Just pretending not to avoid pissing off the wife.

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Makes sense....he's afraid of being on (her) Ignore List.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Two things here:

(1) The CBA specifically makes a distinction between first-round picks and non-first-round picks, so this is a moot point negotiation-wise.

(2) Given the choice, would you rather be "#32" (where the team has a fifth-year option) or "#33" (where the team doesn't)?

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true on the second point but an agent can still claim that the 32nd player chosen ( even if top of second round) should have a salary comparable to pick #32 not pick #33 from previous years...It wouldn't' necessarily work but it will be interesting to see how contentious negotiations become for pick 33.....

sb1 said:

I still think the best way to raise the middle finger to these guys would be to have a public in-game demonstration on what really happens to football PSI when they are left out in cold rainy weather. Recreate the scenario of the 2014 AFC Championship game and take measurements before the game and then at halftime and show all PSI measurements on the jumbotron in front of 70,000 people at the game and millions on TV.

Not sure why this hasn't happened yet but it should.

The favorable public perception is the very last thing 345 Park Avenue wants to lose. Hence hiding the PSI measurements this season. So why not rip it out of their hands? Maybe it will get Goodell fired so all the better.

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Fun idea, but no way the NFL would allow the networks to broadcast that. Sudden technical difficulties.....

sb1 said:

I still think the best way to raise the middle finger to these guys would be to have a public in-game demonstration on what really happens to football PSI when they are left out in cold rainy weather. Recreate the scenario of the 2014 AFC Championship game and take measurements before the game and then at halftime and show all PSI measurements on the jumbotron in front of 70,000 people at the game and millions on TV.

Not sure why this hasn't happened yet but it should.

The favorable public perception is the very last thing 345 Park Avenue wants to lose. Hence hiding the PSI measurements this season. So why not rip it out of their hands? Maybe it will get Goodell fired so all the better.

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Kraft would have to grow some balls first. Or, start pretending that he cares as much about his own franchise as he does "the 32".

Not the most intriguing thread title.

Patsfanin Philly said:

If I were the agent representing pick #33, I'd argue they he deserves the slotting, salary and advantages of pick #32 since he was the 32nd player taken.....

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I actually think (but am not 100% sure) that's how it works. When it comes to money, they look at the position a player has been chosen. There isn't, like, some huge drop off between rounds.

So there is a big advantage to being the first pick of the 2nd round. You get paid as the #32 pick (or, at worst, #33 if my above statement is incorrect) BUT the club won't have that 5th year option on you.

If money was my only consideration, I'd rather be the first pick of the 2nd round than the last pick of the 1st round. Of course, if playing for a winner was a factor than obviously I would not have that preference, but an agent can't really go in that direction about how unfair it is that his client has to go to Tennessee or Cleveland instead of New England or Arizona.

1960Pats said:

If we're looking to screw with Fraudell and the crybabies among the owners, I like the idea of the Pats trading up to the top pick in round 2.

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How does that screw with Goodell or other owners? If the Patriots trade up to, say, #30 then they still had to pay to make that trade. No team is going to give us a discount because they feel sorry for us.

1960Pats said:

After all these years of not using a 1st round pick on offensive players, the Pats have traded for former 1st rounders this year. Is that a coincidence?

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I only know of the one 1st rounder they traded for but yes, it is a coincidence. I do not believe for a single second that Belichick is making decisions out of spite or anger at the league. He is making decisions based on what he feels is best for the team.

tasmlab said:

At least you got a "welcome to the list" message. I was put on without any notice or ceremony. It was like I was stood up at the prom or something.

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Yeah well we both know what you did.

woolster22 said:

I'm surprised the NFLPA (or player agents) hasn't made some noise over this issue. That's one less large 1st round contract going around

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Actually I'm surprised there hasn't been more said by the NFLPA about the financial impact of the lost draft pick on seven draftees. The 32nd player drafted normally would get a first round contract but now the 32nd is the 1st in the second round so he only gets a second round contract. And this phenomena cascades down through the rounds with the first pick in each round not able to get a contract worthy of the being picked in the preceding round. This continues until the end when what should have been the last player drafted is not. Eliminating one draft pick in the first round results in one less player being drafted in the seventh round. I'm not sure what the financial difference between rounds would be but I suspect it could be substantial in the cumulative.

willdeespats said:

Actually I'm surprised there hasn't been more said by the NFLPA about the financial impact of the lost draft pick on seven draftees. The 32nd player drafted normally would get a first round contract but now the 32nd is the 1st in the second round so he only gets a second round contract. And this phenomena cascades down through the rounds with the first pick in each round not able to get a contract worthy of the being picked in the preceding round. This continues until the end when what should have been the last player drafted is not. Eliminating one draft pick in the first round results in one less player being drafted in the seventh round. I'm not sure what the financial difference between rounds would be but I suspect it could be substantial in the cumulative.

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Why should the NFLPA care, though? These guys aren't even members yet, and, this has no affect on the salary cap, so any money saved on those seven contracts will just go to other players, likely vested veterans who are actually already members of the NFLPA. For the individual player, it can go both ways as lower round contracts are shorter and can be renegotiated earlier. If they are a good player, that may work in their favor.

ReverendMaynard said:

Why should the NFLPA care, though? These guys aren't even members yet, and, this has no affect on the salary cap, so any money saved on those seven contracts will just go to other players, likely vested veterans who are actually already members of the NFLPA. For the individual player, it can go both ways as lower round contracts are shorter and can be renegotiated earlier. If they are a good player, that may work in their favor.

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The NFLPA may care if it affects current players. The CBA and owners agreements state that teams can only sign RFAs if they have the available draft pick compensation. If the Pats signed Case Keenun (1st round tender) to a sheet that the Rams would clearly match if they could, and Goodell rejects the contract because of the lack of 1st rounder, you bet your bottom dollar the NFLPA would care then. Reasonable chance of a preliminary injunction which would restore the pick pending the actual hearing; then the Rams would match at that point. Pats 1st rounder restored for now; if NFLPA loses the suit Pats would probably be out of their 2017 first rounder instead though.

Hammer of Thor said:

The NFLPA may care if it affects current players. The CBA and owners agreements state that teams can only sign RFAs if they have the available draft pick compensation. If the Pats signed Case Keenun (1st round tender) to a sheet that the Rams would clearly match if they could, and Goodell rejects the contract because of the lack of 1st rounder, you bet your bottom dollar the NFLPA would care then. Reasonable chance of a preliminary injunction which would restore the pick pending the actual hearing; then the Rams would match at that point. Pats 1st rounder restored for now; if NFLPA loses the suit Pats would probably be out of their 2017 first rounder instead though.

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Now you're getting really obscure. This is now only one team that can't make offers to players offered first round tenders. What are the chances the Pats would even want to do that? And, since any team only has one first rounder (barring trades), it only affects one player, max.

Also, it still doesn't affect the total salary cap of any team, so in total, their membership will still make the exact same amount of money that they would have.

ReverendMaynard said:

Now you're getting really obscure. This is now only one team that can't make offers to players offered first round tenders. What are the chances the Pats would even want to do that? And, since any team only has one first rounder (barring trades), it only affects one player, max.

Also, it still doesn't affect the total salary cap of any team, so in total, their membership will still make the exact same amount of money that they would have.

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They fight for their individual members. Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice were individual cases, and didn't impact the overall salary cap. The NFLPA fought for them. All it takes is one case - the Patriots want to pay this player more money than his current team, but aren't allowed to do that because the NFL took away their ability. This player is getting hosed - as a player, that is exactly why I pay my union dues, to have someone stand up for me to prevent me from being hosed. I'd be pissed if I asked the Union for help here, and they responded no because it only impacts you, and the whole of the players in the league are being paid the same amount anyway.

The moment free agency is tied to the draft in any way, the draft becomes fair game for the NFLPA if they want it to be.

Hammer of Thor said:

They fight for their individual members. Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice were individual cases, and didn't impact the overall salary cap. The NFLPA fought for them. All it takes is one case - the Patriots want to pay this player more money than his current team, but aren't allowed to do that because the NFL took away their ability. This player is getting hosed - as a player, that is exactly why I pay my union dues, to have someone stand up for me to prevent me from being hosed. I'd be pissed if I asked the Union for help here, and they responded no because it only impacts you, and the whole of the players in the league are being paid the same amount anyway.

The moment free agency is tied to the draft in any way, the draft becomes fair game for the NFLPA if they want it to be.

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To call this a stretch would be generous.

Besides, correct me if I am wrong, but the NFLPA would have had to have agreed to the format whereby if a team doesn't have the needed pick, they cannot do things such as approach RFA's. So they would be arguing against a deal they already agreed to.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Honestly, I don't think it would work because it would be akin to tampering.

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I don't doubt that Goodell would make up his own interpretation of things and claim that as well. And I'm certainly not advocating for the team to do it. It is a stupid idea. But in reality, would it really be considered tampering?

I mean the player's rights are not owned at the time the Tweet goes out. I've seen dozens of coaches and GMs commenting on various potential draftees so far.

And there's tons of stories of scouts or coaches calling players on draft day to tell them they should be ready to be drafted, only they don't get drafted because a trade happens or something else comes up. Or you're the Browns, and call Cameron Jordan thinking it's Jordan Cameron. Who actually had been drafted and his rights owned by another team at the time. The Browns...

I don't think there's much benefit to sharing who you're interested in during the draft, but so long as they haven't been drafted, I don't see it as tampering. The Patriots openly announced they'd take Mallett a long time in advance in hopes of generating a trade, and that wasn't seen as tampering despite the fact he could have been taken before that pick was made.

So I don't really see it as tampering in any way. I don't see much of a reason to do it though. I mean there's a chance the guy could slide to you anyways, or you may be in a position to move up to get him if he slides into the mid-2nd unless you tell the world about it a day earlier. But I don't think it would be tampering in actuality, although I'm sure Goodell would find a problem with it and either file another baseless case against us or make a rule against it afterwards.