Why does this comment by Peter King, comparing Chip Kelly to BB, pi$$ me off?

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The other day, NJ Advance Media reported that Eagles scouts had it up to here with Chip Kelly, beginning with his first draft in Philadelphia in 2013. It reminded me that until a coach wins, and wins big, there’s going to be great skepticism, regardless of the coach’s résumé. “Right before that draft, the scouts set the board,” a club official was reported to have said. “Then Chip got a hold of it and totally turned it around. Scouts had no say at all in that draft. Anybody that Chip didn’t want, that player’s card got removed from the board and thrown in the trash. Those guys were never even in the discussion. Almost immediately, you had a lot of scouts looking around and wondering, ‘Why am I even working? Why the hell are we even here?’”

I’m reminded of 2011, when the Patriots had the first pick of day two, No. 33 overall. The scouts, I’m told, were expecting the Patriots to pick one of two front-seven players, Jabaal Sheard or Brooks Reed. Instead, Belichick went with his gut, taking a tall corner with an injury history, Ras-I Dowling. He ended up being a bust. Sheard, particularly, and Reed haven’t been superstars, but they’ve had significantly better careers. Point is, you never heard a peep out of the Patriots, mostly because Belichick earned the right to pick whoever he wanted, with three Super Bowls at the time to his credit. And Kelly will get the skepticism until he wins.

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Maybe it's because King is comparing Kelly to BB by bringing down BB. Maybe it's because King is downplaying the 3 SB titles... like saying to a golfer, "Hey, once you can hit those 90-foot putts, you'll be one of the greats."

And maybe it's because Peter King invariably irritates the crap out of me.

It is a ridiculous comparison. By 2011, Belichick had his share of swings and misses when drafting against the grain, but he also had more than his share of home runs and doubles. He had already earned the benefit of doubt with room to spare.

That's somewhat on par for Chip Kelly, if I'm not wrong.

A while ago I read "NFL confidential."

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And it's been rumored and largely confirmed that the alleged writer is David Molk, and the team was the Eagles at the time Chip was the HC.

Suffice to say that this book was a very unflattering glimpse into how the Eagles really functioned, in their day to day operations and Chip was portrayed in a bad way.

The parallel that King is trying to make is pretty stupid.

I don't see anything wrong with the general proposition that until you win, there is not much tolerance for drafting mistakes. BB, like any coach, has made some mistakes. It is impossible not to have some misses.

I am assuming (as I have not heard it described) that BB still works the board the way he did with Pioli. That entailed group discussions, not simply an autocratic determination of whom to pick. The misses from BB are likely mistakes by a group. Kelly simply goes with what he wants in rejecting the drafting advice of his organization. BB trains staff and players, so I expect that input is important. If you don't show confidence in your personnel staff, then there is nobody else to blame.

This hindsight draft bust stuff always drives me crazy, and for some of you who have sparred with me about this, you won't be surprised why.

Peter King takes the easy out. He compares Chip Kelly's draft style to Belichick's but fails to point out that Chip Kelly has never built a successful NFL team, much less one that won consistently. Chip Kelly is at his last NFL stop and he might not make it through 2016, so let's stop with the BB - Winnie The Pooh comparisons.

The hindsight draft issue is this. You all remember that 2nd rounder Ras-I Dowling was drafted when the Patriots were desperate for cornerbacks. It was a chronic issue that cost the Patriots games. Belichick took the player with the physical tools to do the job with the biggest upside if he could stay injury-free (see: DL Dominique Easley.)

Dowling never panned out. He went on IR after a hip injury in 2011 his rookie year, and tore a thigh muscle in 2012 that put him on IR, and didn't make it out of camp in 2013. He was always injured, never contributed much, and ultimately was labeled a bust not because he didn't have the size and skills to play football. He just had the sad fortune of being hurt all of the time. I don't know how a team or GM predicts that. I just don't.

Let's compare Gronk and Ras-I Dowling, both 2nd round picks who arrived with injury questions - big ones. Belichick drafted Gronk in the 2nd round after he just missed a season in college with back surgery. We loved the video highlights but wondered if this guy would ever be able to hold up in the NFL. Gronk was the epitome of high-risk high reward guys, and we got both! Lots of time lost to injuries, but possibly the greatest TE ever, or arguably of the salary cap era with a tip of the hat to Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez.

Ras-I might have worked out, but didn't. But that doesn't make the guys in the draft toom smarter than Belichick because maybe they wanted some other 2nd rounder. And it certainly proves nothing about how Chip Kelly is somehow on par with Bill Belichick.

Maybe Peter King ought to take a minute and compare a guy like Gregg Popovich to Bill Belichick. That one would make sense.

Well BB made up for that by picking that certain guy up at 199 long time before so....
Chip got to get a guy like him before he gets any passes. But then again, who cares if Philly pooches it's future.

If I read the article and take it at face value , King is making two points.

1) BB blows off his scout's recommendations just like Chip.
2) When you've won 3 SBs, it's ok to do that.

Does King realize that scouts give prospects grades and it's up to the FO or coach to determine who they want and what is best for the team?

I believe the BB does value the scout's opinions. Not sure why King chose BB as an example of a coach that ignors his scouts?

oldrover said:

Colin Kaepernick trade, Titans eye Jalen Ramsey in 2106 NFL Draft | The MMQB with Peter King



Maybe it's because King is comparing Kelly to BB by bringing down BB. Maybe it's because King is downplaying the 3 SB titles... like saying to a golfer, "Hey, once you can hit those 90-foot putts, you'll be one of the greats."

And maybe it's because Peter King invariably irritates the crap out of me.

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At this time last year thats all i heard was chip kelly that, chip kelly is the next Great thinker/tactician in the nfl. because of all his 'daring' personel moves. It was sickening, and thats why it was so great when he was sacked. To compare kelly to BB show what an azzclown idiot King is.

robertweathers said:

If I read the article and take it at face value , King is making two points.

1) BB blows off his scout's recommendations just like Chip.
2) When you've won 3 SBs, it's ok to do that.

Does King realize that scouts give prospects grades and it's up to the FO or coach to determine who they want and what is best for the team?

I believe the BB does value the scout's opinions. Not sure why King chose BB as an example of a coach that ignors his scouts?

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It's because scouts are often times the sources for reporters, so King only gets the one side of the story. And scouts will whine because they don't have the influence they think they should. Like every other workplace - for example, scouts are the engineers in the Dilbert cartoon and the HC/GM are the pointy haired bosses. They'll whine if the boss doesn't agree with their assessment. Sometimes it's legitimate - Kelly hasn't really appeared to show more than the pointy-haired boss at this point. Often times it's not, that it's the scouts that get so caught up in looking for talent and upside that they can't see the big picture - can't see the forest for the trees. But guys like King only get the scouts' side of the story, so you get stories like this.

Hammer of Thor said:

It's because scouts are often times the sources for reporters, so King only gets the one side of the story. And scouts will whine because they don't have the influence they think they should. Like every other workplace - for example, scouts are the engineers in the Dilbert cartoon and the HC/GM are the pointy haired bosses. They'll whine if the boss doesn't agree with their assessment. Sometimes it's legitimate - Kelly hasn't really appeared to show more than the pointy-haired boss at this point. Often times it's not, that it's the scouts that get so caught up in looking for talent and upside that they can't see the big picture - can't see the forest for the trees. But guys like King only get the scouts' side of the story, so you get stories like this.

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I'm sorry but I can't picture Peter King having a first person conversation with any type of scout. GM? Sure. Owner? Of course. League office hack? Oh yeah. Team management type? Yup. But scout? Can't picture it.

I think folks are getting their panties in a bunch over nothing here. King's point was once a coach is an established winner then he has carte blanch to act as he sees fit. King wasn't comparing BB and Kelly, he was showing the vast gulf between them, and thus, how people react to what they do. At least King used the best coach in the league to demonstrate his point, I can hardly imagine the 30 pages of screaming here had he used Harbaugh or Tomlin.

Clonamery said:

This is just ignorant, made up stuff by King in conversation with someone who relayed some second hand ****. So what you have is Peter King 3rd hand ****.

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"Mommy, I'm a better reporter than Peter King!!!

I was just disappointed Ras - I Dowling didn't catch on - could've added to the Patriots list of hyphenated names....Benjarvus Green-Ellis, Gregg Robinson-Randall, Tully Banta-Cain...

Living in Philly, I had a front row seat to Kelly's antics. He destroyed a well built franchise that had DeSean Jackson, Maclin, MCCoy, Mathis etc. because of his ego.....and thought that because it worked in Oregon, it would work in the NFL.......
What King fails to notice is that Kelly was rejecting outright all the scouts work while BB would selectively overrule them but listen to them when they come to him with a QB at 199 (Rehbein) or a QB who they turned into a WR/KR in round7 .....

This just shows that King never read War Room, otherwise he would know that is not how Belichick managed the draft. In NE they work together to set up the board but Belichick make the final call on who they take, out on trading picks.

What I find funny is that he uses Sheard as a comparison in trying to say "could've had this guy!", but Sheard was also considered a bust in Cleveland - until he signed in New England last year and showed what he really was. So...

Brady'sButtBoy said:

I think folks are getting their panties in a bunch over nothing here. King's point was once a coach is an established winner then he has carte blanch to act as he sees fit. King wasn't comparing BB and Kelly, he was showing the vast gulf between them, and thus, how people react to what they do. At least King used the best coach in the league to demonstrate his point, I can hardly imagine the 30 pages of screaming here had he used Harbaugh or Tomlin.

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The 11th Amendment to the US Constitution is:

"Patriots fans have the right to get their panties in a bunch whenever Bill Belichick's or Tom Brady's names are mentioned by friend or foe, foreign or domestic."

MassPats38 said:

I don't see anything wrong with the general proposition that until you win, there is not much tolerance for drafting mistakes. BB, like any coach, has made some mistakes. It is impossible not to have some misses.

I am assuming (as I have not heard it described) that BB still works the board the way he did with Pioli. That entailed group discussions, not simply an autocratic determination of whom to pick. The misses from BB are likely mistakes by a group. Kelly simply goes with what he wants in rejecting the drafting advice of his organization. BB trains staff and players, so I expect that input is important. If you don't show confidence in your personnel staff, then there is nobody else to blame.

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I think it clear that BB listens to his staff, like any excellent manager. Many have noted that the Pats have been on an absolute roll with their veteran and fee agent pick-ups the last few years (expending little or no draft capital and usually gettin comp picks back when they leave). That roll seems to have started when he hired Mike Lombardi, who seems to specialize in finding hidden gems among existing players in the league. Does that mean Lombardi gets most of the credit? Of course not, most the credit goes to the person that assembled and manages his staff (BB). Nevertheless, IMHO it shows BB weighs staff input carefully before making the final decision.

Patsfanin Philly said:

Living in Philly, I had a front row seat to Kelly's antics. He destroyed a well built franchise that had DeSean Jackson, Maclin, MCCoy, Mathis etc. because of his ego.....and thought that because it worked in Oregon, it would work in the NFL.......

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He inherited a 4-12 team and won 10 games each of his first 2 years before falling to 7-9 his 3rd.

Those may not exactly be Hall of Fame numbers, but he didn't "destroy a well built franchise."

Chip was fired strictly because he is a ****. With more time his vision may have worked. The Demarco deal looked dumb, but give the man props if his primary goal was to cripple Dallas lol.

I would hate to lose McCoy etc but he shouldve been given one more year to see him fix the oline at least.