The 2016 Pats already better than 2015?

BobDigital said:

Yeah. If 100% healthy they were the best team last year and i think this team will be better.

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I hope so ...

IcyPatriot said:

We had an excellent team before 2015 began then injuries happened ...
Easy to compare a newly signed team compared to an injury decimated team.
If just Lewis had stayed healthy we go to and win the Super Bowl IMO.

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Excellent point. I think the drop-off to White (fine receiver, inadequate rusher) was simply too great and that is the reason for Donald Brown. RB still needs reinforcements, but they are among the easiest to find. My biggest question mark remains OL, which was inadequate last year and where we might reasonably project the same starters next year, albeit with better depth (Cooper, Waddle). I look for additions here early in the draft.

I think a well rounded pass catching running back should be a serious consideration in this draft. This offense stops functioning when it doesn't have its Faulk/Woodhead/Vareen/Lewis type back. With his injury history I view Lewis as a short term/best case scenario starter. Somebody near his caliber should be found. I'm not convinced that White can do it.

I love Kenny Dixon if he fell to 60.

Mack Herron said:

Excellent point. I think the drop-off to White (fine receiver, inadequate rusher) was simply too great and that is the reason for Donald Brown. RB still needs reinforcements, but they are among the easiest to find. My biggest question mark remains OL, which was inadequate last year and where we might reasonably project the same starters next year, albeit with better depth (Cooper, Waddle). I look for additions here early in the draft.

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All this dicsussion of the OL forgets that rookies don't do well and make mistakes as they learn. We had three rookies starting and a fourth first time UDFA starting. Solder was out and Vollmer was playing out of position there and hobbling too. Even without reinforcements that OL would do much better than the injured one that merely went 12-4.

Just ad an OT and a burner WR in the draft and a banger RB.
Depth wherever available with a PR late (maybe the burner).

RayClay said:

I'd usually pass it by [humor?] but that was wicked pissah.

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@PatsWickedPissah 's ears must be ringing like crazy.

The loss of jones is huge. I do not think you can underestimate how much that hurts the defense.

A lot of people thought the addition of te chandler was huge last offseason, and we know how that turned out. Hard to imagine Bennett being much more successful at this point.

I can not say the 2016 team is better than the 2015. Much too early.

We've certainly added several proven NFL players to the squad! I like our chances to go to a 7th SB since 2000.

Can't wait to see this offense with the additions of Bennett, Hogan, Nate W. Harbors, Cooper.......

The defense is shaping up beautifully

Ochmed Jones said:

The loss of jones is huge. I do not think you can underestimate how much that hurts the defense.

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What are you his agent? Jones was the 6th, maybe even 7th, most important player on our defense last season. And before you scoff, which of Hightower, Collins, Butler, McCourty, Sheard, and MAYBE Ninkovich would you say is less important than Jones? If you want to say Nink then fine, but the 5 others were all better and more impactful players, period.

If we are discounting all the injuries from last year I would say "no". Last years team with healthy Edelman, Solder and Lewis would have won the Super Bowl.

The loss of Jones is huge, he made game changing plays! Hopefully Bennett will be a huge upgrade over Chandler. As of today, the Pat's would be screwed depth wise if either Collins or Hightower went down, and both have reguarly missed games. Mayo has yet to be replaced. I'm really not sold on McClellan, I watched him play and he seems to be chasing the RB down th field instead of meeting him in the hole.

I liked the signing of Long, but he is 30 coming off two injury ravaged seasons. As of right now I'm guessing White would be your staring RB, with Lewis on third down. Hogan is a decent receiver, but he is of the same mold as Edelman, Amendola. What the Pat's really need is a deep threat which would open up the underneath for those guys.

I would like to see Blount resigned, I thought they missed the boat by not grabbing up Laurenitis.

Ochmed Jones said:

The loss of jones is huge. I do not think you can underestimate how much that hurts the defense.

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No but I can estimate. Jones was a very good player in this defense but he simply did not produce every single game and played at an elite level 3-4 times a year. All the others he was absent or average. Collins, High, Malcom Brown, Butler, DMC and maybe even Chung and Easley are more important to this defense than Jones.

Ochmed Jones said:

A lot of people thought the addition of te chandler was huge last offseason, and we know how that turned out. Hard to imagine Bennett being much more successful at this point.

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You can't be seriously comparing Scott Chandler to Bennett. Are you saying they are equal players?

Ochmed Jones said:

I can not say the 2016 team is better than the 2015. Much too early.

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I agree. We have no idea if the 2016 team is better. The o-line is not better (Scar should help), we don't know if Lewis will return to 2015 form and the team doesn't have a power threat at RB.

Love the optimism but lets remember that these seasoned FA acquisitions/trades are players their former teams chose to pass on. Yes…..finances/cap issues often force team's hands but attitude, age, health, performance are all components when locking down next year's roster. Right now, BB has acquired pieces, not foundations…..and these pieces are unknown commodities in NE's system.
Given all the short term contracts dished out, I'm wondering if BB will trade out of this draft to gain position for the 2017 draft. So many contracts coming due then.

AzPatsFan said:

All this dicsussion of the OL forgets that rookies don't do well and make mistakes as they learn. We had three rookies starting and a fourth first time UDFA starting. Solder was out and Vollmer was playing out of position there and hobbling too. Even without reinforcements that OL would do much better than the injured one that merely went 12-4.

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Absolutely. Not to mention coaching. There were so many things going on with the line last year that won't be the case this year, to the point where I'm a little surprised people keep putting Oline needs so high.

IcyPatriot said:

If just Lewis had stayed healthy we go to and win the Super Bowl IMO.

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Dion Lewis missed 1 game in 2011, 7 games in 2012, all of 2013, all of 2014, and 9 games in 2015. I'd love to see him stay healthy too. But there is zero evidence he can. Best for BB to accept what Lewis gives us for as long as Lewis does, but make sure there's a decent backup... because we will need it. Sad... but based on history, true.

aluminum seats said:

Absolutely. Not to mention coaching. There were so many things going on with the line last year that won't be the case this year, to the point where I'm a little surprised people keep putting Oline needs so high.

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It comes down to injuries with the o-line. This is not breaking news, but losing Solder downgraded our line at both tackle spots. The interior was young and inexperienced, and our backup RT (any of them) were glorified statues that my mother could dip a shoulder and get around.

I'm dropping a total cliche on you, but depending on health, better coaching, and a years experience should improve our line play.

We typically will carry 9 O-lineman on the 53 man (depending on the week and injuries)

OT (4)
N. Solder
S. Vollmer
2nd/3rd Draft Pick
Waddle/Fleming/Cannon/Later Draft Pick

The reason I consider an OT a priority is for next year and beyond. Vollmer may be allowed to walk, and Solder has a big cap number of 11+ million. A solid pick that can be the #3 tackle this year with the upside to start in the near future is a big get for us.

C/G (5)

S. Mason
B. Stork
J. Cooper
T. Jackson
D. Andrews/J. Kline/possible Draft Pick

The interior is a bit more tricky to decipher, if they stick with 5 guys. I see my top four on the team, unless they are overly concerned with Storks health concerns.

Starting 5
LT: N. Solder
LG: S. Mason
C: B. Stork
RG: J. Cooper/t. Jackson
RT: S. Vollmer

borg said:

Love the optimism but lets remember that these seasoned FA acquisitions/trades are players their former teams chose to pass on.

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So by default that makes the player less valuable or not as good because they say so? Knighton, McClellin and others were also contacted by other teams and also had interest in signing them. Other teams were reportedly interested in trading for Bennett as well.

borg said:

Yes…..finances/cap issues often force team's hands but attitude, age, health, performance are all components when locking down next year's roster.

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Correct.

What matters is what NE thinks.

borg said:

Right now, BB has acquired pieces, not foundations…..and these pieces are unknown commodities in NE's system.

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Because NE already has foundation pieces at DT, CB, QB, WR, TE, LT, FS, SS, K, P and need to spend wisely. You can't have foundational players at every position. The cap does not allow for it long term.

With that said the likelihood of all FA acquisitions from this offseason becoming busts is slim and none. This team is too good at picking talent to match the system.

borg said:

Given all the short term contracts dished out, I'm wondering if BB will trade out of this draft to gain position for the 2017 draft. So many contracts coming due then.

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It certainly is not out of the possibility. I think they have ~77 players under contract. They have 10 picks next month. They typically sign 7-8 UFAs so I do see them pushing some of these picks to 2017.

IllegalContact said:

then I'll go up to the lith club and get a coupla more beers and a pizza......

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I'd go with the kugelis or ceplinai, and wash it down with some svyturys and krupnickas....

oldrover said:

Dion Lewis missed 1 game in 2011, 7 games in 2012, all of 2013, all of 2014, and 9 games in 2015. I'd love to see him stay healthy too. But there is zero evidence he can. Best for BB to accept what Lewis gives us for as long as Lewis does, but make sure there's a decent backup... because we will need it. Sad... but based on history, true.

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This is the right approach. He has a history of not being durable. Clearly they prefer Lewis to get ~250 touches that just doesn't seem realistic. White and Brown are the backups and hopefully they can draft a RB that can give them power and speed in the running game and be a legit threat in the passing game. The problem is that those guys aren't a dime a dozen.

FreeTedWilliams said:

The loss of Jones is huge, he made game changing plays!

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When?

lith club??? as in Lithuanian club or Lake in the Hills club ????