Kraft is becoming an embarassment every time he opens his mouth

PittPatriot said:

Why do some of our members expect Kraft to be any less greedy, self-promoting, selfish, and deceptive than the other owners?
He is no different. He is going to promote his sport which will provide his family financial security for generations. I would not take his advice on a medical issues at face value.

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You're right, but a lot of people believe that because that's how he was pitched to us, and some bought it. He was a season ticket holder first, who used creative means to keep the team from relocating to St. Louis, financed his stadium privately, etc. Pats fans have largely skipped over the other stuff and concluded that, unlike the other owners, he's actually a good guy. I'll freely admit that I at least somewhat drank the koolaid. I didn't think he was a saint or anything--ownership is ownership--but I at least thought he was the best of a sleazy lot of characters.

Which is why I think you're seeing such backlash now, because it's quickly become apparent that he isn't. He's as bad as any of them.

mgcolby said:

So it goes against your pre-conceived notion so therefore it must be wrong. Got it. It was not conducted by the NFL but hey lets not allow those pesky things like fact get in the way of a good Kraft bashing!

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No, it was conducted by football helmet manufacturers

Ah it sounded to me like Kraft compared football in general not specifically the NFL.

"I'll just say this," Kraft continued, "any contact sport, whether it's women's soccer, hockey or football, there are going to be concussions. I'll tell you this, that I think the game has never been safer from an equipment point of view, from a medical point of view. I know I played, two of my sons played, my three grandsons play so we have three generations playing the game, and I think the life lessons that you get playing football are worth the risk."

Where does he say the NFL? He clearly stated the "game" and then goes on to talk about his son's playing football, which unless I missed, it neither played in the NFL. And nothing he stated is inaccurate helmets protect better now than ever, people especially at the high school level are much more sensitive and aware of concussions and their symptoms. Medical doctors and trainers are better equipped post concussion.

So I ask you what did he say that makes him an embarrassment?

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Comparing womens soccer to the NFL. You can make up whatever you want but they are asking him about a report of concussions IN THE NFL and how the NFL manipulated the data.

His response to the NYT investigation was to be a denier. He is taking the path of the NFL, which I am sure you have criticized. Is Goodell's handling of concussions wrong? Kraft is now getting in line behind it, that is what is embarrassing

PittPatriot said:

Why do some of our members expect Kraft to be any less greedy, self-promoting, selfish, and deceptive than the other owners?
He is no different. He is going to promote his sport which will provide his family financial security for generations. I would not take his advice on a medical issues at face value.

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You don't have to expect him to be different than the others to recognize he sounds like an idiot.

Not to defend Kraft but I think his moral compass has been altered since the death of his wife. I think if she was still alive and counselling him I believe he would have been more sensitive in the Ray Rice case and this issue to the victims and not just the POS and the Shield, Aside from that, the Pats PR staff needs to keep him away from the media and let Jonathan do the talking.

AndyJohnson said:

No, it was conducted by football helmet manufacturers

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Maybe next time you will actually take the 5 minutes to read it and if you had you would have known that it was actually conducted by the National Federation of State High School Associations. The data was collected from all high school sports. I found out about it from the Athletic Trainer at my Son's high school when my son was concussed during this past wrestling season. Apparently high schools in VA are required to report ALL injuries sustained during athletic competition to the Virginia High School League (governing body for high school sports in Virginia). He was the one that told me girls soccer has the highest concussion rate of all high school sports. Assuming most - if not all states have this requirement for liability purposes, the data would not be hard to mine and the source of the data would not be biased.

AndyJohnson said:

Comparing womens soccer to the NFL. You can make up whatever you want but they are asking him about a report of concussions IN THE NFL and how the NFL manipulated the data.

His response to the NYT investigation was to be a denier. He is taking the path of the NFL, which I am sure you have criticized. Is Goodell's handling of concussions wrong? Kraft is now getting in line behind it, that is what is embarrassing

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It maybe semantics but you stated that Kraft compared the NFL to women's soccer, he did not he generalized about the safety of the game of football. Nothing in his statement was inaccurate or not true. You can vary your opinion on his life lesson's being worth the risk remark. But nothing else in the portion of his statement is debatable. One can question if they are doing enough to minimize concussions, but again that is a personal preference argument.

Yes, I think the league manipulated the data probably purposely as well as inadvertently in the study referenced by the NYT. But everyone has blame in that game, owners, coaches, players and the fans. Name one owner who isn't toeing the party line on concussions? Not defending him or the league. But that is not the reason that you stated in your opening post for him being an embarrassment. You used his point about womens soccer, which was an accurate and valid point in the context he used it.

And I'll leave it up to you to decide if you want to believe the NFL and its numbers or not, but in 2015 according to the league 271 concussions were reported from both practice and games. During the season 61 folks are on the roster (53 roster, 8 practice squad) if you do the percentage on that it comes out to 7.2% of NFL players were diagnosed with a concussion in 2015, and that number would be lower if you were to add the training camp roster of 90 plus the players that are cut, signed, IR'd etc... high school girls soccer is 14.8% of players based on the study.

I'm not arguing CTE, ALS, general brain damage etc... because nobody really knows the true number or the true extent of the impact simply because the technology doesn't exist yet to either diagnose these issues or a true independent long term study hasn't been done - particularly CTE - which can't be diagnosed until the player dies and donates his brain to science. I'm sure someone is working on a device that will detect CTE and some day in the near future we will know. But for the purposes of this discussion about concussion's Kraft's statements are true and accurate.

And I probably won't respond after this post as I don't think any amount of fact will change your opinion about concussions in women's soccer vs football.

I used to think that football actually did teach important life lessons. I bought in whole-heartedly to the romanticisms of character building, into the lore of the game, and all the meticulously crafted branding of football.

I played some ball. I got my bell rung. A lot. Only thing it really taught me was how to deal with a lot of pain. Probably made me less of a p*ssy. I would do it again. Although it certainly wasn't the formative life experience it is branded as. It's a fun sport to play, and you have a lot of fun with your buddies as a teenager. It certainly doesn't sculpt a man, though.

Kraft is protecting his investment and I can respect that. I'm also not so much shocked as I am just face-palming. Kraft has always seemed incredibly transparent to me. I credit him for learning from his prior management mistakes. I credit him for hiring well and getting the hell out of the way. Kraft however was never the champion of the proletariat he branded himself as. He made an investment and sought to maximize his return. I do not fault him for that. I don't really even fault him for towing the company line in regards to CTE. I do, however, squarely blame him for installing a commissioner who will be universally regarded as the guy who began the death of the NFL. I blame him for supporting a man unfit for the job despite a litany of dramatic failures. I blame him for having zero sense of duty nor honor. Most importantly, I blame him for not making a ferocious defense of the two men responsible for the creation of generations of wealth for his family and his own immortality.

mgcolby said:

Maybe next time you will actually take the 5 minutes to read it and if you had you would have known that it was actually conducted by the National Federation of State High School Associations. The data was collected from all high school sports. I found out about it from the Athletic Trainer at my Son's high school when my son was concussed during this past wrestling season. Apparently high schools in VA are required to report ALL injuries sustained during athletic competition to the Virginia High School League (governing body for high school sports in Virginia). He was the one that told me girls soccer has the highest concussion rate of all high school sports. Assuming most - if not all states have this requirement for liability purposes, the data would not be hard to mine and the source of the data would not be biased.




It maybe semantics but you stated that Kraft compared the NFL to women's soccer, he did not he generalized about the safety of the game of football. Nothing in his statement was inaccurate or not true. You can vary your opinion on his life lesson's being worth the risk remark. But nothing else in the portion of his statement is debatable. One can question if they are doing enough to minimize concussions, but again that is a personal preference argument.

Yes, I think the league manipulated the data probably purposely as well as inadvertently in the study referenced by the NYT. But everyone has blame in that game, owners, coaches, players and the fans. Name one owner who isn't toeing the party line on concussions? Not defending him or the league. But that is not the reason that you stated in your opening post for him being an embarrassment. You used his point about womens soccer, which was an accurate and valid point in the context he used it.

And I'll leave it up to you to decide if you want to believe the NFL and its numbers or not, but in 2015 according to the league 271 concussions were reported from both practice and games. During the season 61 folks are on the roster (53 roster, 8 practice squad) if you do the percentage on that it comes out to 7.2% of NFL players were diagnosed with a concussion in 2015, and that number would be lower if you were to add the training camp roster of 90 plus the players that are cut, signed, IR'd etc... high school girls soccer is 14.8% of players based on the study.

I'm not arguing CTE, ALS, general brain damage etc... because nobody really knows the true number or the true extent of the impact simply because the technology doesn't exist yet to either diagnose these issues or a true independent long term study hasn't been done - particularly CTE - which can't be diagnosed until the player dies and donates his brain to science. I'm sure someone is working on a device that will detect CTE and some day in the near future we will know. But for the purposes of this discussion about concussion's Kraft's statements are true and accurate.

And I probably won't respond after this post as I don't think any amount of fact will change your opinion about concussions in women's soccer vs football.

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If you want to believe that women's soccer is as dangerous as the NFL with regard to head injuries in not sure what to tell you.
If you want to think the NFL is dishonest but Kraft mimicking their answer us not again not sure what to say.

Finally, I agree you and I discussing this topic has no value.

flasox27 said:

Not to defend Kraft but I think his moral compass has been altered since the death of his wife. I think if she was still alive and counselling him I believe he would have been more sensitive in the Ray Rice case and this issue to the victims and not just the POS and the Shield, Aside from that, the Pats PR staff needs to keep him away from the media and let Jonathan do the talking.

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What makes you think his wife had anything to do with his "moral compass?" I wonder how big of a role she really played in his decisions. Was she supporting him when he championed Goodell?
I think the Krafts know how to give a certain perception. The whole MHK thing came from a good place but publicity had much to do with it.
Call me cynical...but I think Kraft is just like the rest of 'em.

PittPatriot said:

What makes you think his wife had anything to do with his "moral compass?" I wonder how big of a role she really played in his decisions. Was she supporting him when he championed Goodell?
I think the Krafts know how to give a certain perception. The whole MHK thing came from a good place but publicity had much to do with it.
Call me cynical...but I think Kraft is just like the rest of 'em.

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This is just my opinion based on her good deeds in the community. I also recall that the Pats released the draft pick Christian Peter when it came out that he was a spousal abuser due to her influence.

flasox27 said:

Not to defend Kraft but I think his moral compass has been altered since the death of his wife. I think if she was still alive and counselling him I believe he would have been more sensitive in the Ray Rice case and this issue to the victims and not just the POS and the Shield, Aside from that, the Pats PR staff needs to keep him away from the media and let Jonathan do the talking.

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I have had several thoughtful observers who are not super fans like we are say the same thing about Myra.
Way back, I was one who thought Myra was a problematic influence on Bob.
I now believe I was very wrong then.

Kraft's admirable charity legacy was likely fueled by Myra. It's now more PR.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I have had several thoughtful observers who are not super fans like we are say the same thing about Myra.
Way back, I was one who thought Myra was a problematic influence on Bob.
I now believe I was very wrong then.

Kraft's admirable charity legacy was likely fueled by Myra. It's now more PR.

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So now were sinking so low with disgust for Kraft to the level of questioning his charitable motives. That's rich.

I'm getting disgusted with some on this board and question there motives. Kraft bashing gossip non-stop. It's becoming more like a Hair Salon and less like a sports message board.

Carry on chatty Kathies.

I think we've found Bob's screen name here on Patsfans

.....and out comes the frizzy hair and claws..........

Mack Herron said:

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When it's coming from someone as well respected as Stinky Earl I guess we should all sit up straight and take notice.

OhExaulted1 said:

When it's coming from someone as well respected as Stinky Earl I guess we should all sit up straight and take notice.

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Seems to be a growing sentiment around these parts.

Mack Herron said:

Seems to be a growing sentiment around these parts.

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That's correct. The hate of Kraft is a growing sentiment around here. To some it's become all consuming.

It's a disturbing trend.

OhExaulted1 said:

That's correct. The hate of Kraft is a growing sentiment around here. To some it's become all consuming.

It's a disturbing trend.

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Absolutely ...

We're not the Browns - Jaguars - Panthers - Titans - Raiders - Eagles - Lions - Bears - Bucs or Rams. Teams that just show up from year to year ... would hate to be a fan of those teams. Nobody is perfect and being an NFL owner amongst 31 others is not exactly logical in operation. They are greedy assed people who throw money around like water to maintain power. This is Game of Thrones ... The Tudors and all the rest ... unbridled greed - lust for power - lust for money.

When Kraft bought in as owner who would have thought the legacy to come ... he's not well liked because of it. At least now he knows it ... Jonathan will proceed with the knowledge into the future. Kraft screwed up ... IMO he deserves our support - not scorn for all he has accomplished here. He must continue running the business the best he can and he must support the league the best he can - revenge will come at a later date or dates.

IcyPatriot said:

Absolutely ...

We're not the Browns - Jaguars - Panthers - Titans - Raiders - Eagles - Lions - Bears - Bucs or Rams. Teams that just show up from year to year ... would hate to be a fan of those teams. Nobody is perfect and being an NFL owner amongst 31 others is not exactly logical in operation. They are greedy assed people who throw money around like water to maintain power. This is Game of Thrones ... The Tudors and all the rest ... unbridled greed - lust for power - lust for money.

When Kraft bought in as owner who would have thought the legacy to come ... he's not well liked because of it. At least now he knows it ... Jonathan will proceed with the knowledge into the future. Kraft screwed up ... IMO he deserves our support - not scorn for all he has accomplished here. He must continue running the business the best he can and he must support the league the best he can - revenge will come at a later date or dates.

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Kraft like anyone else deserves credit for his successes and criticism for his screw ups.
I don't think it's correct to ignore either because of the other.
He hired BB and let him do his job. He failed in 2 instances where it was his responsibility to defend the franchise against incorrect, u fair and arbitrary harmful action against the franchise.

Recently after years of being hailed for telling the fans he is one of them his rhetoric has changed and he has sided with the league office to the detriment of his own franchise and now in promoting their despicable position on head injuries and their role in the "research" and communication of risks.
Again he deserves credit/criticism for both sides.
To say one half of his actions should be given a pass because of he other half indicates a biased agenda.

AndyJohnson said:

Kraft like anyone else deserves credit for his successes and criticism for his screw ups.
I don't think it's correct to ignore either because of the other.
He hired BB and let him do his job. He failed in 2 instances where it was his responsibility to defend the franchise against incorrect, u fair and arbitrary harmful action against the franchise.

Recently after years of being hailed for telling the fans he is one of them his rhetoric has changed and he has sided with the league office to the detriment of his own franchise and now in promoting their despicable position on head injuries and their role in the "research" and communication of risks.
Again he deserves credit/criticism for both sides.
To say one half of his actions should be given a pass because of he other half indicates a biased agenda.

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Anyone who believes an owner is the same as a fan is delusional at best.
Leagues stay strong when owners are united in their business model ... not their moral compass.
Us fans ... if we cared more about CTE we would stop giving the league our money ...
Let's not put ourselves above kraft and the other owners without putting our money where our mouth is.
The hypocrisy in this thread is amazing ...
most notably with the pantywaists here who have a love affair of the dislike and disagree options.