Kraft is becoming an embarassment every time he opens his mouth

QuantumMechanic said:

Which he believed as brought on by football-related concussions.

He has donated his brain to the CTE investigation, so we will see what we will see.

Click to expand...

But see this is the important item. "we will see" is correct. It may be that the cause of his early death and football related head trauma are connected, however, many here have already made it a fact.
One item that is not 'we will see' and has a factual 1:1 connection is: Disregard science/assume fact based on feeling = Deflategate.
Kraft is a businessman. Businessmen are like politicians. What they say is based first on business even to the detriment of truth. So Kraft not saying "Football injures brains" and instead giving a qualified weak worded explanation is not in the least surprising or unexpected -- not today and not 2 weeks after he bought the team. Anyone thinking differently must have one hell of a comfortable seat in utopia.

RayClay said:

Well, ban the sport.

I don't wake up every day looking for a way to bash Kraft. what he said was not outlandish. I don't believe he is the one altering research, is he?

Click to expand...

He is the one who called the report saying the NFL altered the research is INACCURATE, INACCURATE.
No one is looking to bash Kraft, he is out there making bashable comments every time there is a camera in front of him.

BradyFTW! said:

Lawrence Phillips and Aaron Hernandez played a lot of football. Guess they missed the life lessons and character-building.

Click to expand...

In fairness, the character building in football occurs mostly with teenage boys, and it is real.
That doesn't mean they can't develop that by playing lacrosse, basketball, baseball, hockey or wrestling if they feel the risk of head injury is too severe. Hiding the truth, while saying the risk is the same as womens soccer is beyond dishonest.
For the record if I was 10 years old again, I would start playing football and play until I was no longer good enough to compete at the next level. But that doesn't mean others should be duped into that with falsified information and propaganda.

TheBostonStraggler said:

But see this is the important item. "we will see" is correct. It may be that the cause of his early death and football related head trauma are connected, however, many here have already made it a fact.
One item that is not 'we will see' and has a factual 1:1 connection is: Disregard science/assume fact based on feeling = Deflategate.
Kraft is a businessman. Businessmen are like politicians. What they say is based first on business even to the detriment of truth. So Kraft not saying "Football injures brains" and instead giving a qualified weak worded explanation is not in the least surprising or unexpected -- not today and not 2 weeks after he bought the team. Anyone thinking differently must have one hell of a comfortable seat in utopia.

Click to expand...

To suggest an association between football and ALS (or a form of ALS) is not to disregard science.

The findings may represent the first pathologic evidence of a connection between motor neuron disease and head trauma, but they may also call into question past diagnoses of ALS, particularly in the case of athletes who play contact sports and military veterans, who are diagnosed with ALS at a higher rate than the general population.

Click to expand...

Single Article : Neurology Reviews[tt_news]=206114&cHash=780957cae3f5f6dd7c5b037872858a1a

A study tracking 3,439 retired players with five or more seasons in the NFL found these athletes four times as likely as other men their age to die of Alzheimer's disease or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, better known as Lou Gehrig's disease.

Click to expand...

Former NFL players found to be at greater risk for brain diseases

TheBostonStraggler said:

But see this is the important item. "we will see" is correct. It may be that the cause of his early death and football related head trauma are connected, however, many here have already made it a fact.
One item that is not 'we will see' and has a factual 1:1 connection is: Disregard science/assume fact based on feeling = Deflategate.
Kraft is a businessman. Businessmen are like politicians. What they say is based first on business even to the detriment of truth. So Kraft not saying "Football injures brains" and instead giving a qualified weak worded explanation is not in the least surprising or unexpected -- not today and not 2 weeks after he bought the team. Anyone thinking differently must have one hell of a comfortable seat in utopia.

Click to expand...

So it is fine with you that the NFL manipulates the data to make it seem like less of a problem because 1005 of NFL players don't have CTE?
Are you saying NFL and womens soccer have the same risk because both are not 100% CTE causing. I mean its probably like 80% to 1%, but hell womens soccer players have the same risk.

Kraft was disingenuous, and you know it, and to hide behind its OK because he is a businessman is filthy.

So lets say some young mom takes Kraft at his word, and despite misgivings has her son play football. That son goes on to be Dave Duerson and kills himself due to CTE. Kraft is just a businessman, so its OK that he and the league deceived that Mom to make money?

Tunescribe said:

We agree on that, which is what I think was the essence of what Bob was trying to say.

Click to expand...

No it is NOT.
He compared the concussion risk in the NFL to womens soccer.

He said INACCURATE, INACCURATE, to the sleeziness that the NYT exposed about the NFL.
He is one baby step away from saying there is no correlation between football and CTE.

There is character building in all sports, so it is not a trade of for head injury risk. THAT is what he implied.
You have to look at all his comments not just the sentence that serves you.

Kraft has not yet descended to the level of Jerry Jones in the stupid remarks department, but his office needs this little plaque:

Abraham Lincoln or Mark Twain said:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt

Click to expand...

AndyJohnson said:

So it is fine with you that the NFL manipulates the data to make it seem like less of a problem because 1005 of NFL players don't have CTE?
Are you saying NFL and womens soccer have the same risk because both are not 100% CTE causing. I mean its probably like 80% to 1%, but hell womens soccer players have the same risk.

Kraft was disingenuous, and you know it, and to hide behind its OK because he is a businessman is filthy.

So lets say some young mom takes Kraft at his word, and despite misgivings has her son play football. That son goes on to be Dave Duerson and kills himself due to CTE. Kraft is just a businessman, so its OK that he and the league deceived that Mom to make money?

Click to expand...

Huh? Nothing I said endorses or even suggests I think it is ok for the NFL to do data manipulation. Contrary to that I think the NFL's lying is disgraceful. Their head trauma down to their deflategate, their bountygate, etc have been appalling.
What allows them to get away with those examples, as I suggested, is people accepting their feeling as a fact. The moment that happens then science becomes a parlor game. It becomes something for politicians, businessmen, partisans, ideologues to drive home decision making from emotion, ignorance (when not simple stupidity).
I cringe hearing Kraft be an NFL businessman. I don't like it, not one bit. I also know Bob, Jonathan, Person X will largely be the same unfortunately. Now ask yourself why that is, why is it that 'person X rises to that top level while 'what's the facts' person Z is sitting at the desk with no view'. The answer is partially contained in 'I just know it is a fact' thought process (i.e. appeals to the emotion/confirmation bias).

As I understand it Turner's brain has been donated for medical research. It should provide some clues. Assuming the research can be led honestly (iffy) I'm all ears. If the connection is made I'm all in. But thousands of players have retired from the NFL. Based on a sample of thousands there will be incidents of health that are a course of nature/non football related. And me saying that isn't an endorsement of anything (not Kraft, certainly not Goodell) except an endorsement of fact and science. And ultimately what my saying that is about is a fight to stop the process that brought us deflategate.

RecoveringCowboy said:

Kraft has not yet descended to the level of Jerry Jones in the stupid remarks department, but his office needs this little plaque:

Click to expand...

More than just an office plaque, they need to print it out, laminate it, and hang it from a chain around SpongeBob's neck with instructions to read it every time he feels a public comment welling up.

FWIW the concussion risk in soccer (men's or women's) is fairly significant. Heading the ball can cause them, as can the collisions that happen when multiple players go up for headers. Obviously still nowhere near the risk that's present in football, though.

RayClay said:

So, you're on a football board supporting football talk because you want to ban football.

Interesting preoccupation there.

Click to expand...

And you don't slow down your vehicle as your passing a 32 limousine car crash?

RayClay said:

So, you're on a football board supporting football talk because you want to ban football.

Interesting preoccupation there.

Click to expand...

It's not quite that simple. I grew up on football, it's my favorite sport. If what is known now about it had been known when I was a kid, that would not be the case. At this point, sure, there's some internal conflict that can be tough to make sense of. On one hand I enjoy watching football more than any other sport. OTOH, every year I have a harder time being okay with the toll it takes on the guys who play it, and the corruption, greed, and plain immoral actions of the league office and ownership.

All in all, I don't support banning football. But if I have a son I would never let him play it. And once Belichick and Brady are gone, I think I'll stop following it altogether. The investment I have in them is the majority of what's keeping me on board at this point.

AndyJohnson said:

Not sure how you agree that playing football is the same as womens soccer with respect to head injuries. Of course he went on to defend the NFLs ludicrous response to the concussion issue as well.
Kraft is echoing the NFLs positions on concussions, and that is an embarrassment.

Click to expand...

You really should do some research before dismissing someone's comments and especially before saying he's an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth, because all you just did was embarrass yourself.

A.E.M.A. | Concussions more prevalent in girls’ soccer than football

mgcolby said:

You really should do some research before dismissing someone's comments and especially before saying he's an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth, because all you just did was embarrass yourself.

A.E.M.A. | Concussions more prevalent in girls’ soccer than football

Click to expand...

First, if you believe that study, then lets talk about the earth being flat.
Second, where is that comparing the NFL to WOMEN'S Soccer?

I think (and hope) Kraft knows he is not the face of the Patriots, so why does he need to talk that much?

Some owners keep a low profile. Heck - Denver's owner can't be in public in his condition!

The face of the Patriots is the man of few words that suffers no fools.

AndyJohnson said:

So it is fine with you that the NFL manipulates the data to make it seem like less of a problem because 1005 of NFL players don't have CTE?
Are you saying NFL and womens soccer have the same risk because both are not 100% CTE causing. I mean its probably like 80% to 1%, but hell womens soccer players have the same risk.

Kraft was disingenuous, and you know it, and to hide behind its OK because he is a businessman is filthy.

So lets say some young mom takes Kraft at his word, and despite misgivings has her son play football. That son goes on to be Dave Duerson and kills himself due to CTE. Kraft is just a businessman, so its OK that he and the league deceived that Mom to make money?

Click to expand...

Andy, I see your point, and I largely agree with it. I have also pointed out he is a businessman in separate posts, but I want to emphasize that is an explanation of his action, not a justification.

I've seen posters that seem to think that Kraft is an idiot, or under Goodell's spell, or weak. It is my opinion, instead, that he is a super wealthy businessman that has spent his life making billions of dollars, and with him the money comes first, period (as I suspect is the case with virtually all billionaires). He's making a gigantic amount of money on the Patriots, and that cash cow is much more important than the loss of draft picks, loyalty to TB, and even the dangers posed to the players by CTE. That is just my opinion.

That is meant as an explanation of his actions, not a justification. These 33 men (the owners and Goodell) have distorted and manipulated data on CTE's to hide the dangers of concussions, and used the tactics (and a remarkable number of the same people) that big tobacco did in the mid 90's to achieve that distortion of the truth. And, just like the case of big tobacco, people are dying because of it. I think it is deplorable.

turkeyneck said:

More than just an office plaque, they need to print it out, laminate it, and hang it from a chain around SpongeBob's neck with instructions to read it every time he feels a public comment welling up.

Click to expand...

Maybe tatoo it on him?

I hear his most valuable employee is good at this.

Mack Herron said:

This discussion reminds me a lot of the smoking discussion several decades ago. To suggest the owners have the players' interest at heart is the height of naivete. The NFL has acted in direct opposition to player interest.

Turner's life and death carries meaning, poignancy

Click to expand...

Funny you make that connection.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/sports/football/nfl-concussion-research-tobacco.html?_r=0

AndyJohnson said:

First, if you believe that study, then lets talk about the earth being flat.
Second, where is that comparing the NFL to WOMEN'S Soccer?

Click to expand...

So it goes against your pre-conceived notion so therefore it must be wrong. Got it. It was not conducted by the NFL but hey lets not allow those pesky things like fact get in the way of a good Kraft bashing!

Ah it sounded to me like Kraft compared football in general not specifically the NFL.

"I'll just say this," Kraft continued, "any contact sport, whether it's women's soccer, hockey or football, there are going to be concussions. I'll tell you this, that I think the game has never been safer from an equipment point of view, from a medical point of view. I know I played, two of my sons played, my three grandsons play so we have three generations playing the game, and I think the life lessons that you get playing football are worth the risk."

Where does he say the NFL? He clearly stated the "game" and then goes on to talk about his son's playing football, which unless I missed, it neither played in the NFL. And nothing he stated is inaccurate helmets protect better now than ever, people especially at the high school level are much more sensitive and aware of concussions and their symptoms. Medical doctors and trainers are better equipped post concussion.

So I ask you what did he say that makes him an embarrassment?

Why do some of our members expect Kraft to be any less greedy, self-promoting, selfish, and deceptive than the other owners?
He is no different. He is going to promote his sport which will provide his family financial security for generations. I would not take his advice on a medical issues at face value.