Kraft "trying" to get 1st round pick back

****...edit got lost...whoa is me

Edit:
I'll add part of that rant here.

Most disgusting to me, is the way Kraft allowed Goodell (probably more the other 31) to make him, for a moment, among the most hated owners in the sport. Spy and Deflategate removed, what is there to dislike about Kraft? He tried to strong arm the nfl into paying for a stadium, ditto Mass. Instead he paid out of pocket, at the height of this teams illustrious run, to keep the team in dismal Foxborough.

That, fellow PatsFans, is a fan owner at work. Hartford? Some comedian on Comedy Central stand up called for the raizing of CT. Having lived there for a few years, I don't disagree (great restaurants though, where I cut my teeth in kitchens).

Hell, I knew old Foxborough was a joke as a kid, my brothers and I, squeezed into each other, sacrificing the 12 in ass space Sullivan decided on rather than the comfy 18, for the good of my father and whatever grown man was on our right.

Kraft could have easily turned the pats into the old browns that spurned BB. Methinks he had discussed with BB the fact he would stay, and support a new ground up approach (remember the carrol years...constant decline, Bledsoe waving off the punt team in miami, only to drive down and win). In that respect, he has held his word.

Unfortunately, he gave in to the league office (for the 2nd time), at the worst of times. Matt Patricia is a rocket scientist...literally. no reason he should have accepted a 2 dollar fine, let alone the garbage he did. But here we are.

I didn't actually READ your post as much as I drank it in like a fine Chateau Margaux...

Joker said:

I didn't actually READ your post as much as I drank it in like a fine Chateau Margaux...

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Fair enough, Joe Kerr. Wish I knew more about good wine, but I tend to lean towards good bourbon. I reckon I made my 2nd white Russian strong enough to let the hate flow through me...at least we'll enough to disclose my contempt for the hit kraft has taken in this mess.

You'd think he'd have learned his lesson the first time, but here we are. Again. Minus a first round pick. Fahck.

woolster22 said:

This whole saga is one massive pr hit to the "big 3" of the pats. BB through association, and distraction the weeks before what proved to be "5 rings." Brady...enough said. And whatever bs went on in the owners meetings prior to "the copulation," Kraft has had to doctor his relationship with fans ever since.

To be honest, I will never forgive Booster Seat for his decision to role with the 31. Every now and then you need to pull your Johnson out, and slap a few morons that are attacking your reputation. Instead, kraft tucked his in, and took what his employee demanded. Ain't that some ****. You think he sits back and allows an employee of his other business ventures slap him around in the media, slandering the name of his organization and it's esteemed employees, only to give a "I want the rhetoric to end" presser? The big money table proved to be to much for him. Twice.

If he has any sense and dignity left, he is on the phone with the Chiefs', vikings', and SF owners and working any and all phones for a "no competence" or whatever the term is, vote. Pretty sure it was the vikes and 9ers that were docked multiple picks prior to the NYFOJ being docked 100k (may be wrong, either way, get on the phone with said 4 owners). They should also all be leaking documention, "records of evidence," and a simple table of prior punishment while maybe slipping a few k into reporters/editors hands who stand up the the mega giant. The NYJ bias in the NFLFO is disgusting and infuriating, even to the fan of the team that has been whooping their ass on the regular for 10 years.

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It's a no confidence vote. Not an incompetent vote.

Actually in reality as it regards Goodell, incompetent is far more apropos than no confidence.

IcyPatriot said:

You need to rephrase what I said to make a point ... you are a loser Andy ... get over yourself.

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I didn't rephrase anything this is what you said

would some rather Kraft wins all the time and we're a mediocre team?
Of Kraft loses here and there and we remain an elite team ...
Take your pick ...

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I never said if Kraft fought we would be a mediocre team ...

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So yes you exactly did. You said take your pick between Kraft winning battles and we se Mediocre or Kraft loses and we are elite. This clearly implies you feel our success is contingent on Kraft giving in on these battles with goodell and if he didn't we would be mediocre. You said it not me.
How else was I supposed to take those words?

I said if we were a mediocre team this would have been a wrist slap.
I said the reason we are good is because we are an excellent organization - nothing to do with goodell.

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No you didn't.
I quoted your words above

This is why nobody likes discussions with you ... you twist words and it becomes an argument.

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As you can see I twisted nothing.

You've been doing this since way back on the old board ...
If you're going to debate do so honestly or eff off.

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Et tu
If you are changing your position that is fine. If you posted something you regret that is fine. Certainly there is no reason to call me names for taking what you said as what you meant

woolster22 said:

Fair enough, Joe Kerr. Wish I knew more about good wine, but I tend to lean towards good bourbon. I reckon I made my 2nd white Russian strong enough to let the hate flow through me...at least we'll enough to disclose my contempt for the hit kraft has taken in this mess.

You'd think he'd have learned his lesson the first time, but here we are. Again. Minus a first round pick. Fahck.

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And my fear is that his actions lay the groundwork for a third time. By constantly praising Goodell why should Goodell fear that Kraft will come after him and oust him? You need death by a thousand cuts and that is to challenge Goodell's actions on every matter, making his life miserable and putting him on notice, essentially saying, " don't F with me or my team."

AtomicDawg said:

And apparently he wrote the letter at the end of last season. You mean to tell me it took him THAT LONG to realize the impact of not having a 1st round pick???!!! He'll have a better chance of getting Rosie O'Donnell to lose weight then get that pick back. What a waste.

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He sent it using USPS. Of course it took months - it got lost.

ViperGTS said:

It's a no confidence vote. Not an incompetent vote.

Actually in reality as it regards Goodell, incompetent is far more apropos than no confidence.

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Was pretty sure I had the term wrong. Thanks for the correction, ditto the end statement.

Also something forgotten in "the edit that wasn't":

I remember games at cramped Foxborough Stadium. Again, iirc, my old man would tell us how the owner (Sullivan? It's the name that is ringing true. I could be wrong, again) took the plans for an x-capacity college stadium, and cramped "ass to seat allocation" to 12 in a seat (? From 18? 24 to 18 maybe?) in order to increase capacity.

Compare that with Bob Kraft, the Bob Kraft that leveraged everything to get outside funding for HIS stadium, and ended up footing most if not all the bill. Hell, I remember seeing an article about the state (relatively recently) essentially refusing to fund a footbridge over route one. This owner could have gone to CT (have any of you been to Hartford recently? If so, I suggest Bricco in West Hartford for a well prepared Italian meal.), threatened other venues, but stayed with the fan base that had seen it's rough times.

He brought us entertaining, yet continuing dissapointing seasons under Pete. Then he signed, and ultimately traded for an obscure assistant from the Parcells regime, mired in mediocrity.


The rest is history.

Will I forgive him for his deflategate handling? No. But the man built Gillette, and fostered a home for the greatest salary cap Era dynasty, save maybe the spurs, in modern history. That counts for something.

Patsfanin Philly said:

And my fear is that his actions lay the groundwork for a third time. By constantly praising Goodell why should Goodell fear that Kraft will come after him and oust him? You need death by a thousand cuts and that is to challenge Goodll""s actions on every matter, making his life miserable and putting him on notice, essentially saying, " don't F with me or my team."

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So I had the above typed up when I saw this...good enough time to hit send I guess.

If there is ever a 3rd goidellian witch hunt, I'd hope kraft comes out firing. Subpoenaing communications, and ensuring the other 30 (Gb has no owner) that he is ready to play ball.

His latest endorsement of Goodell was the last straw for me, f.ck him, being part of the n billionaire boys club is all that matters to him. I hope Patriot fans boo him endlessly from here on out.

FreeTedWilliams said:

Now he can ask that Goodell be fired at the owners meeting. He should at the very least call for a vote of no confidence.

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How can Kraft ask that Fraudell be fired after he has repeatedly (and publicly) said what a good job he's doing? If I were one of the owners who approves of Fraudell's methods I would laugh at Kraft.

woolster22 said:

He brought us entertaining, yet continuing disappointing seasons under Pete. Then he signed, and ultimately traded for an obscure assistant from the Parcells regime, mired in mediocrity.

The rest is history.

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The "history" is a 5-11 record in 2000 and an 0-2 start in 2001 until Mo Lewis took out Drew Bledsoe and allowed Tom Brady to take over. That is when the current dynasty began.

1) How's everyone's off-season going...good??

2) uhh...no....

3)

OhExaulted1 said:

So how many people here think all this teams success for the last decade and a half is all because of Brady and Belichick and Kraft had nothing to do with it?

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Here's how I see the Pats recent success.
Brady - 80% - His record as the Pats' leader is unmatched in NFL history.
Belichick - 15% - Without Brady his record as a HC is below average.
Kraft - 5% - Without Brady his record as an owner is average.

I also feel that some credit for the team's current success should go to **** Rehbein, who was the one person who saw the greatness of Brady.

1960Pats said:

The "history" is a 5-11 record in 2000 and an 0-2 start in 2001 until Mo Lewis took out Drew Bledsoe and allowed Tom Brady to take over. That is when the current dynasty began.

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I remember it well. I was in the "let Drew staht again...da long bawl baby..." camp. I chalk it up to being a dumb teenager, and am happy to say I was very, very wrong.

IcyPatriot said:

I never said if Kraft fought we would be a mediocre team ...
I said if we were a mediocre team this would have been a wrist slap.
I said the reason we are good is because we are an excellent organization - nothing to do with goodell.

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There are plenty of great organizations in the NFL that don't have the success the Pats have had. It all comes down to Tom Brady, the man that Kraft has allowed to be thrown under the bus for the good of the other 31.

I'm starting to think that the pro goodell krafts is the real Kraft and everything he is saying about fighting the punishment is a or campaign.
Today amazingly he planted stories with Reiss and Howe. Reiss essentially arguing that the non actions of Kraft were actually everything he could do and everything he didn't do he shouldn't have bothered. And Howe mouthpiece get Kraft taking credit for big player signings.

I think since "ending the rhetoric" Kraft has simply been in a mission to make himself look better to the fans that feel he let them down for the sake of his billionaire buddies.

woolster22 said:

I remember it well. I was in the "let Drew staht again...da long bawl baby..." camp. I chalk it up to being a dumb teenager, and am happy to say I was very, very wrong.

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Ahhhhhh, I remember those Brady/Bledsoe wars very well. I used to work with a man who insisted that Drew could have led the Pats to the SB in 2001, just like Brady. I think he has come around, but I'm not sure. I'm meeting with him tomorrow for a drink or two and I'll see.

Patsfanin Philly said:

And my fear is that his actions lay the groundwork for a third time. By constantly praising Goodell why should Goodell fear that Kraft will come after him and oust him? You need death by a thousand cuts and that is to challenge Goodell's actions on every matter, making his life miserable and putting him on notice, essentially saying, " don't F with me or my team."

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It should take a really egregious offense to be stripped of a 1st round pick.

Spygate was way overblown, and Defamegate was created out of whole cloth. Considering Bob Kraft's lame response, if the PATS Keep winning, what's to prevent the NFL* from stripping the Pats of more picks in the future through another bogus charge?

Certainly the haters will support it and not question anything that hurts the Pats.

1960Pats said:

Here's how I see the Pats recent success.
Brady - 80% - His record as the Pats' leader is unmatched in NFL history.
Belichick - 15% - Without Brady his record as a HC is below average.
Kraft - 5% - Without Brady his record as an owner is average.

I also feel that some credit for the team's current success should go to **** Rehbein, who was the one person who saw the greatness of Brady.

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You knew I was going for the Rhebein angle, didn't you? Good call. Kraft, BTW, had a winning record with 4 playoff qualifications, 2 Div. titles and a SB appearence in his first 6 years before the Wonder Twins arrived. I can think of 25 teams off the top of my head that would take that "average" success. He also snatched BB from the hated Jets for a 1st no ones whining about now.

He kept the team here and built an empire. I'm dropping a solid 50% on Bob. This one scenario doesn't define his entire legacy in my book. He made a mistake and he's taken considerable (and deserved) heat for his mishandling of this entire episode. I still can't bring myself to totally hate on the guy as I've seen a few select others here do.

I'm not a rumpswab or whatever other descriptive adjective people want to label me as and I recognize the ire and consternation he's getting here is deserved to a degree but at the same time I haven't reached the level of pin-pricking a voodoo doll to vent my frustration at his handling of this whole affair, which is akin in it's effectiveness to all these potshots directed at him on a messageboard is in my eyes.

If Goodell ultimately is successful in getting Brady suspended I don't put that on Kraft. The loss of the 1st pisses me off and that is on him but him taking the stand or whatever in Brady's case would have been nothing more than a meaningless and forgotten gesture. Losing Brady for 4 games, IMO, is larger than pick #29. That is all on Goodell and his Jet flunkies at 345 Park Ave. Scumbags.