Where are they now - Tim Fox

Looks like things aren't going well for him as head trauma has caught up to him

The cost of concussions: Fox family, others understand football's toll

Thanks. I remember the draft when we got Fox as the resurrection of the franchise. He was small and fearless and had a motor with only one speed. He stuck many bigger backs with authority. Very sad to see the toll being taken. A great Patriot.

I met him once in college. It was a movable party with a lot of the football team, and he was one of the two most memorable, mainly because we exchanged a few words at the after-party.

The other one I recall vividly was Ken Kuhn, a linebacker, who I saw with 3 pitchers of beer in each hand. He was ruled a suicide at age 52.

I hate this stuff.

In the mid eighties I played tag football with Tim for the Celtics front office team. I can't tell you the number of times he literally blew people up and we had to ask him to dial it down. Even at that age he was remarkable. Over the years we'd run into each other from time to time. He'd done very well as an executive with a large printing company. You have to remember that back then players didn't earn enough in one year to set themselves up for life if they chose.

All my remembrances of Tim is that of a bright, vibrant and decent man. It bothers me a lot to hear of his health problems, especially as a 69 year old who too often has trouble remembering where his keys are. But my career playing football was 10 years shorter than Tim's, and THAT's the distinction that I think is lost in the concussion/football discussion.

Football is a great game, a great teacher, and above all fun. What I don't want to see is it torn down by the impression that if you play the game you will be destined to wind up with CTE and a host of physical problems. That is simply not the case. 90% of all football players "careers" end their senior year of HS. 97% of the those that play in college see their football playing days end there.

I have no doubt that after several years of the violent contact we see in the NFL. Contact that is caused by the great speeds and weights that are generating those collisions. That CTE is a definite issue for some players. My problem is that the prevailing impression is that ANYONE who plays football is immediately subject to CTE. If that were the case, we'd have a national epidemic of people stumbling around in depression and killing themselves.

The fact is that if your kid plays HS football he's going to be fine. If your kid plays college football, he's going to be fine. And if your kid is among the very few who gets to play in the NFL, he is going to have to weigh the risks and rewards of a long term career in the sport. But let us not kill a game whose benefits far outweigh the risks for 99% of the people who played it.

I wish the best for Tim Fox. He was a great football player and is a better man

I can't imagine football is going to be around forever with these sort of stories coming out all the time. Damn shame. Hopefully there's some sort of cure or preventive measure to prevent CTE discovered.

patfanken said:

The fact is that if your kid plays HS football he's going to be fine. If your kid plays college football, he's going to be fine.

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These are not facts Ken, and they are incorrect. Because there is not yet a reliable diagnosis before death, the risk is unknown. It is clear, however, that there is CTE in both college and high school players.

Of the 68 cases of CTE found in males between 17 and 98 years old, 64 were athletes, and 18 of those were also military veterans. Of the athletes, 34 were professional football players, nine only played college football and six had only played high school football.

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New CTE Study Categorizes Stages of Degenerative Brain Disease in Veterans, Athletes : U.S. Medicine

the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that nearly 2 million brain injuries are suffered by teenage players every year.) In fact, the chances of getting a concussion while playing high school football are approximately three times higher than the second most dangerous sport, which is girls’ soccer. While such head injuries have long been ignored — until recently, players were resuscitated with smelling salts so they could re-enter the game — it’s now clear that these blows have lasting consequences.

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The Fragile Teenage Brain
High School Football Players Face Bigger Concussion Risk
Education Week

18 year old high school football player » CTE Center | Boston University

So 2 years ago my younger brother is at a Patriots theme bar on Marco Island FL. Spends the evening pounding 'em down with Tim Fox whom I'd met long ago as an active player...great guy. Well, Fox has with him another not well known ex-Patriot whose name I forget (not CTE here, just age). Sadly, the other ex-player is seriously non-functional because of CTE. Tim, who as he said to my brother, "I have my own issues" looks after this guy and takes him around with him. Fox is a classy guy.

Mack Herron said:

These are not facts Ken, and they are incorrect. Because there is not yet a reliable diagnosis before death, the risk is unknown. It is clear, however, that there is CTE in both college and high school players.

New CTE Study Categorizes Stages of Degenerative Brain Disease in Veterans, Athletes : U.S. Medicine


The Fragile Teenage Brain
High School Football Players Face Bigger Concussion Risk
Education Week

18 year old high school football player » CTE Center | Boston University

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It would be ridiculous to believe that there isn't a possibility of a HS kid getting CTE in HS, Mac. That wasn't my point. It can happen. Anything can happen. The question is the LIKELIHOOD that it happens. I firmly believe that the chances of a teenager getting brain damage from a car crash is a lot greater than from playing football. Yet you don't see a national drama session over letting 16 year olds drive and having kids even younger ride with those kids.

Are we going to have a 100% guarantee that nothing can happen to our children before we let them out of the house, and if anything does, is going to be someone's fault. I read a story about a girl who got chronic headaches and brain damage from soccer, trying headers. Should we end competive soccer at that age?

The point I'm trying to make is that if you let your kid play HS football it is more likely that he will get brain damage driving to practice than he will playing in the game. The point is that at that level the game is safe....or as safe as every other activity your kids are likely to try.

patfanken said:

In the mid eighties I played tag football with Tim for the Celtics front office team. I can't tell you the number of times he literally blew people up and we had to ask him to dial it down. Even at that age he was remarkable. Over the years we'd run into each other from time to time. He'd done very well as an executive with a large printing company. You have to remember that back then players didn't earn enough in one year to set themselves up for life if they chose.

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Hi, Ken,
I don't doubt your story, but the dates don't seem to line up. Tim was a rookie in 1976. He played until 1987 or so. Did you play tag football with him while he was still an active NFL player? He'd only have been about 33 in 1987. Could it have been in the mid nineties?

MagicMarker said:

Hi, Ken,
I don't doubt your story, but the dates don't seem to line up. Tim was a rookie in 1976. He played until 1987 or so. Did you play tag football with him while he was still an active NFL player? He'd only have been about 33 in 1987. Could it have been in the mid nineties?

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It well could have been just after than in the later 80's. IIRC the last year I played was in 89. He didn't play long for us, as he was clearly too good for the competition.

BTW- The team was made up mostly of guys in the 40's and late 30's (at the time) who either worked in the Celtics front office or had a connection to Jan Volk the GM at the time, and was the chief organizer behind the team. My connection was Rick Wietzman who played for the C's under Russell and was a few years ahead of me in HS. IIRC at the time he'd been doing some scouting for the team as a side line and knew Jan well. Rick and I played softball every summer.

The rest of group were very eclectic, from mailmen to US attorneys. Just as eclectic where the teams we played. The Globe had a team run by Ben Bradley Jr, and so did the Pats front office. We even got to play under the lights one game at old Sullivan Stadium. ML Carr played for us a few games, but surprisingly he wasn't very good. So did Randy Vataha who was very good. We often played teams who had a bunch of guys in the 20's who just finished playing college football. It was ironic that our "ringer" was a 40+ year old, 5' 9, bald guy who had a little paunch. But boy he was good. The thing that stood out was his body control. Even if he was covered well, he could put his body in position to catch the ball.

See MM, this all your fault. This is what you get when you get an old guy reminiscing

patfanken said:

I

See MM, this all your fault. This is what you get when you get an old guy reminiscing

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That's ok, Ken. We like your reminiscing.

Tim Fox is 62 years old now, we are getting old. Remember him and his game well.. he was a bright spot.

MagicMarker said:

That's ok, Ken. We like your reminiscing.

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We're all glad you are able to be reminescing. Unlike too many CTE victims.