DE Chris Long signs one-year contract with Patriots

ctpatsfan77 said:

FWIW, he's already on the wrong side of 30.

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So is Nink.
DW Toys

Didn't realize losing a garbage time sack artist was taking a major step backwards

Sheard as a starter+a healthy Chris Long +potentially Flowers/or/Grissom seeing an increased role will negate the loss of Jones.

As the market value decreases will go sign someone like Henry Melton or Jared Crick and there is your Hicks replacement.

Deus Irae said:

People on this board were talking about trading Jones and replacing him with a veteran. So a whole lot of people must have been playing chess.

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Yep, The Trade was obvious as Jones who would have the highest price tag in 2017. I had the right Team mentioned who was desperate for that one piece, a pass rusher, I just thought the Pats would get a WR out of the Cards who mare stacked there in the receiver roster.
Wonder if they kicked tires on any of them? It was said this trade has been in the works for some time.
DW Toys

Brady_to_Moss said:

Why is Rap and other writers saying "there is the replacement for Jones"...Sheard will replace him more than Long...Long is for depth. Plus Long has had injury issues the past 2 years so you can't really count on him for 16.

But a very good depth and front 7 signing after letting Jones go today. Now get 1 more WR like Washington and a RB and we are golden

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Now I think we try to extend Sheard as Long is a one and done.
DW Toys

JMC00 said:

Didn't realize losing a garbage time sack artist was taking a major step backwards

Sheard as a starter+a healthy Chris Long +potentially Flowers/or/Grissom seeing an increased role will negate the loss of Jones.

As the market value decreases will go sign someone like Henry Melton or Jared Crick and there is your Hicks replacement.

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I'm not sure that's a fair assessment of Jones. Someone mentioned a stat earlier where 8 or 9 of his sacks came in games that were decided by one score. That's not garbage time. I also feel like he was good for a few strip sacks a year because of those freakishly long arms. Forced fumbles for a DE are a game changing play.

I agree on your general point: that we have the assets and ability (both on the team and through future acquisition possibilities) to replace Jones' production. I just don't want to start bad mouthing this guy on his way out the door. He was a big part of our Super Bowl year, and has been an effective edge rusher since he got here.

Deus Irae said:

Patriots trade Jones for Cooper and a 2nd
Patriots sign Long
Patriots open up more than $2 million in cap space
Patriots also get possible comp pick for Cooper in the future

=

Epic win on paper


Top remaining needs:

LB3
RB1 and RB1a
OWR1
TE2
IOL (depending upon how they really feel about Cooper)


Given the team's current amount of cap space, the current state of free agency, the fact that some potentially suitable players are pretty much bound to be cut loose by their teams before the start of the season, and the fact that the Patriots are currently drafting at

60
61
91
96 (can't trade)
127
196
208 (can't trade)
214 (can't trade)
221 (can't trade)
243
250

there should be plenty for us to talk about in the coming months.

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Don't sleep on Cooper. He was a first rounder and top ten pick in 2013. He is very young. He has had injuries including a broken leg his rookie year. This kid obviously was considered a talent by NFL Teams. This might be a "Scar" special assignment to mold him. Wonder if the called Scar to see if he had thoughts?
He's only 26. I think he has more potential than Cannon or Kline. It's up to him if he wants to redefine his career on a great Team.

DW Toys

Sicilian said:

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment of Jones. Someone mentioned a stat earlier where 8 or 9 of his sacks came in games that were decided by one score. That's not garbage time. I also feel like he was good for a few strip sacks a year because of those freakishly long arms. Forced fumbles for a DE are a game changing play.

I agree on your general point: that we have the assets and ability (both on the team and through future acquisition possibilities) to replace Jones' production. I just don't want to start bad mouthing this guy on his way out the door. He was a big part of our Super Bowl year, and has been an effective edge rusher since he got here.

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Well the garbage time sack artist comments was sarcasm aimed at the people that would bad mouth him but now are saying he's a big loss

Good player that would be very good for a 3-4 game stretch and then be invisible for 5-6.

Think in terms of Sheard for Jones at RDE it's actually an improvement. The loss is that you no longer have Sheard as the #3 DE that moves around the line.. But I think if you get a healthy motivated Chris Long and Flowers or Grissom take a step that the loss there is mitigated.

JMC00 said:

Didn't realize losing a garbage time sack artist was taking a major step backwards

Sheard as a starter+a healthy Chris Long +potentially Flowers/or/Grissom seeing an increased role will negate the loss of Jones.

As the market value decreases will go sign someone like Henry Melton or Jared Crick and there is your Hicks replacement.

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Totally forgot about Melton. I remember a few years ago wanting the Pats to get him so bad. Solid interior pass rusher.

DW Toys said:

Don't sleep on Cooper. He was a first rounder and top ten pick in 2013. He is very young. He has had injuries including a broken leg his rookie year. This kid obviously was considered a talent by NFL Teams. This might be a "Scar" special assignment to mold him. Wonder if the called Scar to see if he had thoughts?
He's only 26. I think he has more potential than Cannon or Kline. It's up to him if he wants to redefine his career on a great Team.

DW Toys

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Well ************ I would hope so.

JMC00 said:

Well the garbage time sack artist comments was was sarcasm aimed at the people that would bad mouth him but now are saying he's a big loss

Good player that would be very good for a 3-4 game stretch and then be invisible for 5-6.

Think in terms of Sheard for Jones at RDE it's actually an improvement. The loss is that you no longer have Sheard as the #3 DE that moves around the line.. But I think if you get a healthy motivated Chris Long and Flowers or Grissom take a step that the loss there is mitigated.

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Gotcha, sarcasm bit went right over my head, sorry!

And I agree, I actually really like Sheard. The major question on him to me is will his play-to-play effectiveness be the same if he's playing more. Though I guess if Long works out his role may not change all that much at all.

DW Toys said:

Don't sleep on Cooper. He was a first rounder and top ten pick in 2013. He is very young. He has had injuries including a broken leg his rookie year. This kid obviously was considered a talent by NFL Teams. This might be a "Scar" special assignment to mold him. Wonder if the called Scar to see if he had thoughts?
He's only 26. I think he has more potential than Cannon or Kline. It's up to him if he wants to redefine his career on a great Team.

DW Toys

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I'm also wondering if most of his troubles had to do with the blocking scheme

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

I already feel better about Cooper than Cannon...

Cut Cannon saves $3,687,500 + Cut Waddle ( PS ) saves $712,500 + Cut Kline saves $1,500,000 + Redo Dola save ??? + Extend Sheard ( 5 years) + Extend Ninko ( for 1 year cheap vet - will reduce his cap) + Extend Collins ( 5 years) + Extend Butler ( 5 years ) + Cut Freeny ( like him but Laurinatis is better if he is willing to play for cheap) saves $1,487,500 + Sign Larinatis ( 2 years) 3m per + Cut Dobson saves $872,505 = Cap space $24,344,850 + money from Amendola + money from extensions of Sheard and Ninko - money to sign Laurintais - money to sign all draft picks - money to extend Butler and Collins.

60 Josh Doctson WR
61 Braxton Miller WR
91 Tyler Matakevich ILB
96 (can't trade) Jerell Adams TE
127 CJ Prosise RB

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A lot of thought and work. Thank you. Good post. I would be OK with that.

My thoughts. I like CB William Jackson III . Tall, 4.37 speed. Broke school and conference record for pass break ups. I like him at #60. We have little depth at CB.

I am good with WR Miller at #61 as a development guy. He can also return kicks. ST value.

Rather have Kenneth Dixon at #91 for my RB as he can run, catch and block Was best RB I saw this year.

OT Joe Haeg (very much under the radar) at #96.

In the later rounds like our big Round 6:
I hope for TE a little later. I go for Devin Cajuste Stanford. He is a clone to what AH did as a move TE or "H" back. He should be smart. Actually an east coast kid. One of the best 3 cones in this years Draft. Quickness was the AH game. Has WR skills. If we need a TE to block we already have Williams.

For my MLB Joe Shubert of Wisconsin. Was a OLB. Has size and can run. He can play both MLB and OLB here.

RB/TE Dan Vitale from Northwestern is a Pats guy. He has speed and can catch.Mike Alstot type?

OLB/DE James Cowser Big Sky Defensive player of the year. 11 sacks and 17 TFL. ST value.

In the 7th,
CB James Bradberry a 6'1" guy from Samford. Smaller school but great tape. Good Senior Bowl.

DT Adam Gotsis DT from Georgia Tech. An Australian Ruby tough guy. Still learning our football. Speed and size . Ebner was a find as a Rugby player. A BB type pick.
Has a knee injury. Might be a 2017 consideration as we red shirt him.

DW Toys

JMC00 said:

I'm also wondering if most of his troubles had to do with the blocking scheme

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Good point.
DW Toys

DW Toys said:

Don't sleep on Cooper. He was a first rounder and top ten pick in 2013. He is very young. He has had injuries including a broken leg his rookie year. This kid obviously was considered a talent by NFL Teams. This might be a "Scar" special assignment to mold him. Wonder if the called Scar to see if he had thoughts?
He's only 26. I think he has more potential than Cannon or Kline. It's up to him if he wants to redefine his career on a great Team.

DW Toys

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There was no dispute that Cooper was a stud when he was drafted.
Obviously many players never reach that potential, but the skillset is there.
There is no telling what missing your entire first season with a broken leg does to your development.
Everything I read said he looked just like the expected stud in preseason before breaking the leg and seemed to have lingering issues with it year 2.
Perhaps he is one of many players who are allpro talents but just don't have the drive, attitude, commitment etc to make it in the NFL, but I feel better with him as one of our Gs than counting on Josh Kline and 2 second year guys who sucked as rookies.
Cooper only started 9 games last year in Az, but would have been our best G if he were here.

Brady&Springsteen FTW said:

Well ************ I would hope so.

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Great retort!
DW Toys

Seems to me we have a bit of a thing going on here not unlike a positive feedback loop that just continues to strengthen the team. There's a lot of veterans who get to this point of their careers who say "I've made enough money, I'm all about winning" but then we see that, no, actually, you're all about money. Matt Forte comes to mind this year. If you're all about winning, you're not signing with the NY Jets.

We actually ONLY offer less than market value for these veterans, essentially saying "okay, if you're really all about winning, then prove it and come here". The ones who do are the ones who get it, and the ones we want on the team hence they tend to thrive. So in our free market pickups, tend to get one-year "prove it" guys who are accepting lower value to make money elsewhere the following year (Freeny, Hicks, Ayers) and "win now" guys who have their money but want a ring. This is sound economic and personnel strategy. You also get comp picks for the "prove it" guys.

DW Toys said:

A lot of thought and work. Thank you. Good post. I would be OK with that.

My thoughts. I like CB William Jackson III . Tall, 4.37 speed. Broke school and conference record for pass break ups. I like him at #60. We have little depth at CB.

I am good with WR Miller at #61 as a development guy. He can also return kicks. ST value.

Rather have Kenneth Dixon at #91 for my RB as he can run, catch and block Was best RB I saw this year.

OT Joe Haeg (very much under the radar) at #96.

In the later rounds like our big Round 6:
I hope for TE a little later. I go for Devin Cajuste Stanford. He is a clone to what AH did as a move TE or "H" back. He should be smart. Actually an east coast kid. One of the best 3 cones in this years Draft. Quickness was the AH game. Has WR skills. If we need a TE to block we already have Williams.

For my MLB Joe Shubert of Wisconsin. Was a OLB. Has size and can run. He can play both MLB and OLB here.

RB/TE Dan Vitale from Northwestern is a Pats guy. He has speed and can catch.Mike Alstot type?

OLB/DE James Cowser Big Sky Defensive player of the year. 11 sacks and 17 TFL. ST value.

In the 7th,
CB James Bradberry a 6'1" guy from Samford. Smaller school but great tape. Good Senior Bowl.

DT Adam Gotsis DT from Georgia Tech. An Australian Ruby tough guy. Still learning our football. Speed and size . Ebner was a find as a Rugby player. A BB type pick.
Has a knee injury. Might be a 2017 consideration as we red shirt him.

DW Toys

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My other thought would be what if Jaylon Smith ND, OLB fell to us at #60 because of his injury. Might not play in 2016. I would red shirt him as he would have been a top ten pick. We have ten selections. Not all will make this Team. Perhaps realistically 3-4 will survive. Smith in 2016 sounds like a good theory. This protects us if we can't sign both Hightower and Collins.

Besides DE snaps, the Long signing helped our CAP. But the added value is he might pick up the veteran leadership we lost when Mayo retired.

I know this is about Long on this post but if he has a good season next year we should spring on him sooner than later and you might as well have Vets to get these rookies going in the right direction.
DW Toys

DW Toys said:

My other thought would be what if Jaylon Smith ND, OLB fell to us at #60 because of his injury. Might not play in 2016. I would red shirt him as he would have been a top ten pick. We have ten selections. Not all will make this Team. Perhaps realistically 3-4 will survive. Smith in 2016 sounds like a good theory. This protects us if we can't sign both Hightower and Collins.

Besides DE snaps, the Long signing helped our CAP. But the added value is he might pick up the veteran leadership we lost when Mayo retired.

I know this is about Long on this post but if he has a good season next year we should spring on him sooner than later and you might as well have Vets to get these rookies going in the right direction.
DW Toys

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In a heartbeat. I've advocated this aplenty. If he's there at 60? No brainer because if there was someone else they wanted they have a pick at....61 lol.

Pretty Cool signing. Jones's ticket was probably punched when he went on his Will Farrell Old School Jimi Hendrix Experience along with BB not resigning him not year and getting nothing in return.