DE Chris Long signs one-year contract with Patriots

Sicilian said:

but didn't include the comp pick we potentially lose from Jones as a negative

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Because it isn't a negative. A 2nd round pick in 2016 is much better than at the most a 3rd round pick in 2018..

JMC00 said:

Because it isn't a negative. A 2nd round pick in 2016 is much better than at the most a 3rd round pick in 2018..

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Sorry, I'm not explaining this well. When you're talking about the cumulative assets being given up versus what is coming back, you HAVE to include the potential comp for Jones in the equation. Because (if you go under the assumption that Jones will not be resigned, and I do), you're not just getting a 2nd round pick for Jones, you're exchanging a later 3rd rounder (likely) for a 2nd rounder now. Good value, I agree, so I shouldn't have used the term negative, but it is still value lost in the equation, especially if you're going to include Cooper's potential comp pick as a gain.

Deus Irae said:

Patriots trade Jones for Cooper and a 2nd
Patriots sign Long
Patriots open up more than $2 million in cap space
Patriots also get possible comp pick for Cooper in the future

=

Epic win on paper


Top remaining needs:

LB3
RB1 and RB1a
OWR1
TE2
IOL (depending upon how they really feel about Cooper)


Given the team's current amount of cap space, the current state of free agency, the fact that some potentially suitable players are pretty much bound to be cut loose by their teams before the start of the season, and the fact that the Patriots are currently drafting at

60
61
91
96 (can't trade)
127
196
208 (can't trade)
214 (can't trade)
221 (can't trade)
243
250

there should be plenty for us to talk about in the coming months.

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I already feel better about Cooper than Cannon...

Cut Cannon saves $3,687,500 + Cut Waddle ( PS ) saves $712,500 + Cut Kline saves $1,500,000 + Redo Dola save ??? + Extend Sheard ( 5 years) + Extend Ninko ( for 1 year cheap vet - will reduce his cap) + Extend Collins ( 5 years) + Extend Butler ( 5 years ) + Cut Freeny ( like him but Laurinatis is better if he is willing to play for cheap) saves $1,487,500 + Sign Larinatis ( 2 years) 3m per + Cut Dobson saves $872,505 = Cap space $24,344,850 + money from Amendola + money from extensions of Sheard and Ninko - money to sign Laurintais - money to sign all draft picks - money to extend Butler and Collins.

60 Josh Doctson WR
61 Braxton Miller WR
91 Tyler Matakevich ILB
96 (can't trade) Jerell Adams TE
127 CJ Prosise RB

Ross12 said:

Why can't this be the case for more free agents? It used to be.

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Because players have a very limited amount of time in the NFL. The NCAA isn't exactly set up to prop out football players with great degrees, many colleges even give fake courses so players can continue to play football instead of studying. This is their time to make money. So I can fully understand players going for all the money they can get. After all, if I had 2 jobs where I would do similar things, and one payed me a lot more, I would probably work for that company, even if it wasn't as well known on the market or as high up on the forbes top 500 or whatever.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

Cut Cannon saves $3,687,500 + Cut Waddle ( PS ) saves $712,500 + Cut Kline saves $1,500,000

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Who is going to be the backup tackle if you cut both Cannon and Waddle? And Josh Kline is a capable backup guard.

Marinlik said:

Because players have a very limited amount of time in the NFL. The NCAA isn't exactly set up to prop out football players with great degrees, many colleges even give fake courses so players can continue to play football instead of studying. This is their time to make money. So I can fully understand players going for all the money they can get. After all, if I had 2 jobs where I would do similar things, and one payed me a lot more, I would probably work for that company, even if it wasn't as well known on the market or as high up on the forbes top 500 or whatever.

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I totally hear you there. I just feel like, when you have players who have already made tens of millions of dollars or more hitting free agency, and it's a situation where the Pats are offering only a little less (say $5m a year versus $6.5m a year), it would just be nice to see more already multi-millionaire players take a million a year less to go win instead of fighting for every penny... I mean, I ultimately can't begrudge someone for taking top dollar. It's just refreshing seeing someone who still gets paid handsomely but leaves money on the table to win, and leaves me wishing it was more common.

Maybe it's just a cumulative effect of having Tom Brady taking substantially less than his worth for years effecting my judgment.

Sicilian said:

He included the comp pick that we could potentially get from Cooper as a positive for us, but didn't include the comp pick we potentially lose from Jones as a negative. So the equation should go:

Out = Jones, comp pick in 2018
In = Cooper, 2nd round pick in 2016, Long, comp pick in 2018

Nit picking, I know.

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It's also incorrect (just to return the nit pick). If they hadn't traded Jones, there's only the possibility of a comp pick for Jones, just as having Cooper leads to only the possibility of a comp pick for Cooper. The correct nit to pick would be something like this:

"We have to look at the possibility/likelihood that the lost potential comp pick from Jones would have more value than the gained potential comp pick from Cooper."

which would be a valid issue, but one we cannot currently resolve.

Deus Irae said:

It's also incorrect (just to return the nit pick). If they hadn't traded Jones, there's only the possibility of a comp pick for Jones, just as having Cooper leads to only the possibility of a comp pick for Cooper. The correct nit to pick would be something like this:

"We have to look at the possibility/likelihood that the lost potential comp pick from Jones would have more value than the gained potential comp pick from Cooper."

which would be a valid issue, but one we cannot currently resolve.

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Fair point. The absolute value of comp picks is a nebulous thing anyway.

PF_SU said:

Who is going to be the backup tackle if you cut both Cannon and Waddle? And Josh Kline is a capable backup guard.

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We can keep Waddle and a rookie...

Ross12 said:

Why can't this be the case for more free agents? It used to be.

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It depends on the personality of the player - are you a "me-type" player who is using free agency to cash in or are you "team first" and care about winning? because the pats are not going to pay top dollar for their free agents.

Felt like it was always inevitable that we would sign Long sometime during his career. He always seemed like a Patriot type player coming out of college. Hope he's one of those veterans that flourishes in our system and has a good amount of years left of production.

Ross12 said:

I totally hear you there. I just feel like, when you have players who have already made tens of millions of dollars or more hitting free agency, and it's a situation where the Pats are offering only a little less (say $5m a year versus $6.5m a year), it would just be nice to see more already multi-millionaire players take a million a year less to go win instead of fighting for every penny... I mean, I ultimately can't begrudge someone for taking top dollar. It's just refreshing seeing someone who still gets paid handsomely but leaves money on the table to win, and leaves me wishing it was more common.

Maybe it's just a cumulative effect of having Tom Brady taking substantially less than his worth for years effecting my judgment.

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Sure, they are multi-millionaires right now. But remember, this is their big cash day, and they are still young. This is money that they, and their family, and sometimes extended family and friends, will live on until they die. So every dollar is important.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

According to P King

Long, the second pick in the 2008 draft, has made approximately $103 million in his eight NFL seasons. He has a sick amount of money put away, and he doesn’t care much about money anymore. This season—this contract—was about going somewhere he was going to have a good chance to win. In his eight NFL seasons, the Rams never had a winning year. So missing out on an extra $2 million or $3 million this year in Atlanta, Detroit, Washington or Dallas was no big deal to Long. What I found interesting in the Long sweepstakes was the attitude of a couple of team officials I spoke with who wanted Long. Their feeling was if he visited New England, and if Belichick wanted him, there was no way they had a shot to get him. And it turns out they were right. Long, for instance, loved Dan Quinn, the Atlanta coach. And the Falcons would have paid Long markedly more to play there. But the lure of playing with Belichick and Tom Brady swayed Long.

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Bingo. Another player that gets it. I've always liked his attitude. He'll fit right into the locker room.

Marinlik said:

Sure, they are multi-millionaires right now. But remember, this is their big cash day, and they are still young. This is money that they, and their family, and sometimes extended family and friends, will live on until they die. So every dollar is important.

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Wrong wrong wrong. Why is it soooooooooo hard for people to understand? Give a person a million dollars today, and they can be set for life EASILY. Give them 50 and it's over. Done. Now you can then use the they put their bodies on the line argument. Well that's fine but this is the sport you chose to play and if you choose money over winning then you don't even deserve to be playing. Flat out you should be working at McDonalds because there are tons of slightly less capable players who ARE working at McDonalds that would do anything to hoist a Lombardi. This is a sport by the way. People tend to forget that. Go ask Pop Warner kids why they want to be in the NFL. Bet the ones who say to make the most money aren't the most successful. That generally bears itself out with those who once they get to the NFL feel the same way.

The only things I haven't figured a way is to ensure that the owners don't pocket money they would "save" by players taking much less to play there. I'm sure some agreement could be come to.

Questions on Long…….How's he against the run / can he seal the edge? Will he be best deployed as a 2 down DE but not the pass rush specialist?

Thoughts on the 2015 DL……..with loss of Jones and Hicks….plus the reality that Easley is made of glass, this DL has taken a major step backwards and is no longer a unit of strength on this team. I don't know how anyone can argue differently. The good news is this draft is deep in DL (so they say), Brown should improve on his solid rookie season. The question marks will be Easley's health and if Long will give this team anything. Then there is the reality of expiring DE contracts after '16……back to the drawing board.

Sicilian said:

He included the comp pick that we could potentially get from Cooper as a positive for us, but didn't include the comp pick we potentially lose from Jones as a negative. So the equation should go:

Out = Jones, comp pick in 2018
In = Cooper, 2nd round pick in 2016, Long, comp pick in 2018

Nit picking, I know.

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To be fair the Comp pick went from a likely 3rd to a 4th-5th or so cause it is based on cost right?

borg said:

Questions on Long…….How's he against the run / can he seal the edge? Will he be best deployed as a 2 down DE but not the pass rush specialist?

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Long is regarded as a ver good to excellent run defender. That should not be a concern.

borg said:

Thoughts on the 2015 DL……..with loss of Jones and Hicks….plus the reality that Easley is made of glass, this DL has taken a major step backwards and is no longer a unit of strength on this team. I don't know how anyone can argue differently. The good news is this draft is deep in DL (so they say), Brown should improve on his solid rookie season. The question marks will be Easley's health and if Long will give this team anything. Then there is the reality of expiring DE contracts after '16……back to the drawing board.

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Make no mistake. Talent-wise the D-line is worse than it was in 2015. However, you have assume that Malcolm Brown will improve. Thats huge right there. Branch is fine. Easley is a injury waiting to happen but he is also incredibly talented. Chris Jones in coming back. Kitchen is serviceable (if he makes the team) as a backup and the draft is deep at DT. I think they'll be ok there. For DE Long is insurance. With Nink and Sheard they have vets that know what they are doing. I think one of the Flowers/Grissom/Rufus combo will emerge and be a key contributor in sub packages. I'm optimistic.

so Long gets a short contract..

BradyFTW! said:

Absolute steal. Awesome. He must be betting on himself to make a lot more next offseason after the Pats have rehabbed his value like they did Ayers, Hicks, etc.

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At this point after all these mid season pickups that excelled in NE and got better contracts after instead of unemployment (players that were on their way out of the league), agents around the league should be advising their clients in this kind of situation to get a one year deal with NE, it may become kind of a pattern, we shall see. The last that didn't work out was Sopoaga.

borg said:

Questions on Long…….How's he against the run / can he seal the edge? Will he be best deployed as a 2 down DE but not the pass rush specialist?

Thoughts on the 2015 DL……..with loss of Jones and Hicks….plus the reality that Easley is made of glass, this DL has taken a major step backwards and is no longer a unit of strength on this team. I don't know how anyone can argue differently. The good news is this draft is deep in DL (so they say), Brown should improve on his solid rookie season. The question marks will be Easley's health and if Long will give this team anything. Then there is the reality of expiring DE contracts after '16……back to the drawing board.

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Agree. The DL will likely be weaker this year than last year. However the unit is still good and a relative strength.

Sheard-Brown-Easley-Nink is still one of the better starting units in the NFL. If Easley can finally have a healthy year (big if) then the DTs will overall be upgraded by his and Brown's improvement. Losing Hicks hurts of course but with Branch backing up and maybe another draft pick if those 2 really play well it is better to have that.

There is however no way you make up for losing Jones. However depending on how things go you might not miss him as much as just about any other team would if Chris Long or one of our young guys steps up.

This unit will likely take a step back from last year but i still see it as better than average and if everything goes well it potentially could be better than last year which is kinda funny to say but actually true.