The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

ReverendMaynard said:

If you don't get it after 600+ replies, you never will.

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Get what? You blame Kraft instead of Roger the scumbag and his NYJLO cronies for the loss of draft picks and a biased smear campaign. You don't seem to have a bad word to say about GoDildo.

OhExaulted1 said:

Get what? You blame Kraft instead of Roger the scumbag and his NYJLO cronies for the loss of draft picks and a biased smear campaign. You don't seem to have a bad word to say about GoDildo.

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See?

AndyJohnson said:

And all along the discussion has been about how he blew it by not appealing.

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And the appeal would have accomplished exactly what? Make you feel better about losing the picks?

Kraft was duped. Plain and simple and he said as much.

OhExaulted1 said:

Strawman nothing. He signed a clause as an owner stating he would not sue the league as part of the collective ownership group.

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And there are exceptions, Al Davis and the Raiders for one.

Your strawman argument is he should have done something he couldn't. You wanted him to file a lawsuit in direct contradiction to a contract he signed stating he wouldn't. As far as the appeal goes, you're delusional if you think it would have gone past the Goodell decision.

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Well there certainly is no point in having a discussion with you if after this many exchanges you still make things up that you claim my argument is.
There is no lawsuit discussion until after an appeal, and even at that point its dubious, but to claim the franchise could be taken away is moronic.
So, you are saying Kraft himself is wrong when he now says he handled it wrong, and should have appealed?
You are basing your entire argument on knowing the outcome before it happens, which is the definition of delusional.

If Brady's case is quickly decided in his favor I'm hoping Kraft can find a legal way to fight back.

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What? He shouldn't have appealed and will lose the franchise if he sues, but you want him to take legal action?
Just admit your entire presence in this thread is to defend Kraft against criticism he admits he deserves. You argue he should have done nothing, but almost a year later, you want him to fight?
Btw, by the time there is a Brady decision the draft will be over, and the appeal of the Brady verdict has nothing to do with the picks because it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

As Ice has made clear and I'm in the hopefull category theres still 2 months until the draft. The story isn't over yet.

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"I am choosing to end the rhetoric. We will grudgingly accept the penalty. We will not appeal"

He had the chance to appeal. Your argument seems to be that he was a genius to waive his right to appeal when he had one so he could wait a year and oops, just kidding, can I appeal now?????

OhExaulted1 said:

And the appeal would have accomplished exactly what? Make you feel better about losing the picks?

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It has nothing to do with how I feel (but nice strawman)
It has to do with taking a disastrous occurrence for your franchise and doing everything you can.
Presenting the Context Report forcefully in appeal, to the media, and to the other owners would have brought people THEN WHEN IT MATTERED to the point where they are now where every observer in the world says the penalties are a joke.

Kraft was duped. Plain and simple and he said as much.

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Duped? How? He quit. He chose the 32. Why do you insist on attacking honor to his egregious neglect of the good of his franchise? He made the decision, and it is a figment of your imagination that there was any back door deal. Again you are making things up to make it seem like Kraft wasn't smart enough to handle it so that makes him a good guy.
Good guys screw up too. You are the one making this mistake a referendum on his character and ownership.

AndyJohnson said:

And there are exceptions, Al Davis and the Raiders for one.

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You're comparing moving a franchise to the loss of pick #29 in the 2016 draft. That's quite a leap.

Well there certainly is no point in having a discussion with you if after this many exchanges you still make things up that you claim my argument is.
There is no lawsuit discussion until after an appeal, and even at that point its dubious, but to claim the franchise could be taken away is moronic.
So, you are saying Kraft himself is wrong when he now says he handled it wrong, and should have appealed?
You are basing your entire argument on knowing the outcome before it happens, which is the definition of delusional.

What? He shouldn't have appealed and will lose the franchise if he sues, but you want him to take legal action?
Just admit your entire presence in this thread is to defend Kraft against criticism he admits he deserves. You argue he should have done nothing, but almost a year later, you want him to fight?
Btw, by the time there is a Brady decision the draft will be over, and the appeal of the Brady verdict has nothing to do with the picks because it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.


"I am choosing to end the rhetoric. We will grudgingly accept the penalty. We will not appeal"

He had the chance to appeal. Your argument seems to be that he was a genius to waive his right to appeal when he had one so he could wait a year and oops, just kidding, can I appeal now?????

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My entire presence in this thread is to help people remember that the REAL A-HOLE is Roger Goodell.

It's like watching an army of defense lawyers put the beatdown on a rape and battery victim while the scumbag assailant keeps on smiling behind the defense table.

This entire 600+ thread is because of that scumbag. Kraft is the victim, not the perpetrator. We as fans aren't the victims. He owns the team and it's his investment on the line. Your a customer who can choose to buy or not buy his product.

As far as trying to appeal it now...who knows. If Goodell loses his appeal wouldn't that set a precedent never seen before in the league. This is a federal appeal, not an appeal of an arbitrators ruling. A lot can happen in 2 months. All the 20/20 hindsight whining seems pointless at the moment. Your going to continue to post on a website devoted to a team whose owner you have an issue with. Whatever. I don't like my team losing a 1st either but I'm not going to blame Kraft for it. I blame Rogah. I'll keep rooting for this team after Bill and Tom are gone. I'm sure I won't be alone.

AndyJohnson said:

It has nothing to do with how I feel (but nice strawman)
It has to do with taking a disastrous occurrence for your franchise and doing everything you can.
Presenting the Context Report forcefully in appeal, to the media, and to the other owners would have brought people THEN WHEN IT MATTERED to the point where they are now where every observer in the world says the penalties are a joke.


Duped? How? He quit. He chose the 32. Why do you insist on attacking honor to his egregious neglect of the good of his franchise? He made the decision, and it is a figment of your imagination that there was any back door deal. Again you are making things up to make it seem like Kraft wasn't smart enough to handle it so that makes him a good guy.
Good guys screw up too. You are the one making this mistake a referendum on his character and ownership.

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Maybe it's time for you to put on your cape and fire up the time machine. Go get 'em Super 20/20 Hindsight Man!

All else aside, it has got to be embarrassing to have the likes of "Illegal Contact" and "OhExhaultedOne" agreeing with you on anything...Then again, those Geniuses are doing 99% of the arguing!!

Most everyone else sees the inarguable Logic of criticizing Kraft for what he hasn't done...

...and continues not to do.

OhExaulted1 said:

My entire presence in this thread is to help people remember that the REAL A-HOLE is Roger Goodell.

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I think we can all agree that we as fans have some blind spots in what really went down. How much of this was really Roger Goodell in his pure, unabashed evil trying to screw the Patriots, and how much of it was a handful of owners with an axe to grind? Or a combination of both? Several reports have suggested that the other owners envy, jealousy, and resentment over Spygate were the main driving factor with Goodell just representing their interests.

I go back and forth on this. There is little doubt that Goodell is a despicable scumbag with zero moral compass who lacks the backbone to say he's going to stick with the facts and not listen to the bloodthirsty howls of guys like Bisciotti and Irsay. So, he is far from vindicated even if he was simply controlled every step of the way.

Nor does this really change Kraft's misunderstanding and tragic mistake in this whole ordeal, which is that it was never about truth but about a narrative, from day one. At some point, he must have realized that this was a game of throwing feces at his team, regardless of whether or not they even broke a rule. At some point, he must have realized that he wasn't going to win over the other owners or the commissioner, so it was a question of whether he would settle for a pathetic little website that no one will read or whether he needed to really stand up and scratch and claw.

Serious aside: While I am fully on the side of those who believe that Bob Kraft screwed up and should even now do whatever he can ~ even if publicly lambasting the Atrocity that's been perpetrated is all he can really do ~ I've also always been in the Camp who considers him by far the best Owner this Team has ever had...and the Title of this Thread is one I therefore do not agree with.

More importantly: it's not the Owner I root for but the Team.

OhExaulted1 said:

You're comparing moving a franchise to the loss of pick #29 in the 2016 draft. That's quite a leap.

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Its not a leap at all. You say owners can not sue and can lose their team because of it. Davis sued, Davis didn't lose his team. The reason is irrelevant, the point is whether or not you can sue.

My entire presence in this thread is to help people remember that the REAL A-HOLE is Roger Goodell.

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Kraft enabled him

It's like watching an army of defense lawyers put the beatdown on a rape and battery victim while the scumbag assailant keeps on smiling behind the defense table.

This entire 600+ thread is because of that scumbag. Kraft is the victim, not the perpetrator. We as fans aren't the victims. He owns the team and it's his investment on the line. Your a customer who can choose to buy or not buy his product.

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You are making Kraft a victim? He chose to not fight back.
Of course Goodell handled this horribly but Kraft is the man who is supposed to do what is best for the team and the fans. That is who he sells himself as.
Of course fans are victims because the team they root for was damaged.


If fans aren't victims then you have no co9mplaint toward Goodell, he represents the NFL and you can choose to buy or not buy his product.

As far as trying to appeal it now...who knows. If Goodell loses his appeal wouldn't that set a precedent never seen before in the league.

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No Goodell always loses in court and changes nothing.

This is a federal appeal, not an appeal of an arbitrators ruling

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Its an appeal of Judge Bermans decision on the authority of Goodell in arbitration. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, or Goodells actions. The only referendum that will come out of this is whether the CBA and Goodells interpretation are legal.

. A lot can happen in 2 months. All the 20/20 hindsight whining seems pointless at the moment. Your going to continue to post on a website devoted to a team whose owner you have an issue with.

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So you are saying I cannot be a fan unless I agree with everything the owner does? What if I don't like seeing him liquored up with a girl young enough to be his granddaughter? Does that mean I'm not a fan?

r. I don't like my team losing a 1st either but I'm not going to blame Kraft for it. I blame Rogah. I'll keep rooting for this team after Bill and Tom are gone. I'm sure I won't be alone.

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Comments like that just say you don't get it.

Off The Grid said:

Serious aside: While I am fully on the side of those who believe that Bob Kraft screwed up and should even now do whatever he can ~ even if publicly lambasting the Atrocity that's been perpetrated is all he can really do ~ I've also always been in the Camp who considers him by far the best Owner this Team has ever had...and the Title of this Thread is one I therefore do not agree with.

More importantly: it's not the Owner I root for but the Team.

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cosign

OhExaulted1 said:

Maybe it's time for you to put on your cape and fire up the time machine. Go get 'em Super 20/20 Hindsight Man!

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I said it then.

Clarify though. Are you really saying he should have 'ended the rhetoric, accepted what we were given and we will not appeal" and that was the best thing he could do?

If so why are you angry at Goodell you agreed to let him get away with it without a challenge.

Off The Grid said:

Serious aside: While I am fully on the side of those who believe that Bob Kraft screwed up and should even now do whatever he can ~ even if publicly lambasting the Atrocity that's been perpetrated is all he can really do ~ I've also always been in the Camp who considers him by far the best Owner this Team has ever had...and the Title of this Thread is one I therefore do not agree with.

More importantly: it's not the Owner I root for but the Team.

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Well, it's certainly true that no one down here in Washington roots for Dan Snyder.

OhExaulted1 said:

My entire presence in this thread is to help people remember that the REAL A-HOLE is Roger Goodell.

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Then your entire presence ~ as per usual ~ is a pathetic Waste.

Everybody knows that Goodel's the only Evil one, here.

Kraft was possibly cynical and greedy.

Me, I just think he was weak.

But it's pretty hilarious that you continue to fantasize that the rest'f us need to be reminded whence this Evil was perpetrated. Me, I think you're full of it: Nobody's stupid enough to think that.

Off The Grid said:

Serious aside: While I am fully on the side of those who believe that Bob Kraft screwed up and should even now do whatever he can ~ even if publicly lambasting the Atrocity that's been perpetrated is all he can really do ~ I've also always been in the Camp who considers him by far the best Owner this Team has ever had...and the Title of this Thread is one I therefore do not agree with.

More importantly: it's not the Owner I root for but the Team.

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For all your ripping on me, you pretty much just posted how I feel, though I wouldn't go as far to call it an Atrocity.

More impotantly: I also root for the team and not the owner, but without that owner.....The New England Rams....Ugh......and then they'd probably be on their way to LA this season......and.....Oh God, I just threw up in my mouth....

AndyJohnson said:

And all along the discussion has been about how he blew it by not appealing.

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Assuming an overturn on appeal.....which you would have to be an idiot to think it would be successful

Wake up

Off The Grid said:

Then your entire presence ~ as per usual ~ is a pathetic Waste.

Everybody knows that Goodel's the only Evil one, here.

Kraft was possibly cynical and greedy.

Me, I just think he was weak.

But it's pretty hilarious that you continue to fantasize that the rest'f us need to be reminded whence this Evil was perpetrated. Me, I think you're full of it: Nobody's stupid enough to think that.

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The rest of who? The fellowship of the miserable being led by a drunk marble-mouthed Gary Busey? Or was is Nick Nolte?

You're more full of **** than anyone here....go tease a fat chick with your 'prose'

AndyJohnson said:

cosign

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Burping and farting in unison....you guys make a great daisy chain