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The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft


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Brady also knew he would lose the appeal to Goodell, as his legal team said so from the beginning. However, you have to exhaust available internal options before a US court would even consider hearing it. So, Kraft essentially ensured he could never, ever appeal this to anyone, ever, because he didn't even opt to appeal, which was wide open to him and part of the NFL's process.

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer, Ice. As Andy says Bob had the right to appeal and he chose not to. I agree that if Bob did appeal, he would have lost.

Hindsight being 20/20, when Snyder and Jones were nailed for "cap violations" they stood down and it is assumed Bob encouraged them to do so. By filing an appeal, Bob would have been perceived as going rogue and marginalizing Goody's power.

In the end, he saw that as more of a strategically beneficial move than to stick up for his franchise and star player.
 
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It's great this site can have a discussion like this.

Really.

To put it in perspective, I ranted on an owner that wonders why his team has not been in a SB in 20 years (seriously.) For that and defending this fine team against the homer idiots at CowboysZone, one of their redneck moderators with an apparent hangover banned me and another Patriot fan the day after the SB. And what I said was lame compared to posts here. Because people at CZ are very defensive that like Cleveland, their championship days are over and be surpassed by NE.
 
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Most people here seem to be leaving Godildo blameless while firing missles at Kraft. I find that "odd".

Fraudger is only left out because of the context of this thread. I think everyone is clear that it was him and his Jest pals and not Kraft that screwed us over
 
What exactly is the criticism of Kraft here exactly? He didn't try and fight the crowd for booing Brady so he doesn't care about the team? I get it people are mad about losing picks but get over yourselves, if he did the childish crap people here wanted him to do all that would have happened would be more penalties.

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Defending his team against claims of cheating that cannot be proven, and in fact can be disproven is childish.
How would they get more penalties? The NFL has determined that the Patriots will have another pick taken away from them because they didn't agree with and support publicly our decision to trump up charges and take away picks. If they do not hold a press conference in 24 hours thanking the NFL for taking away this pick, we will take away more.
 
So your logic is that you shouldn't appeal even though you know you did nothing because you think you will lose the appeal? That is ridiculous. Glad Brady didn't feel that way.
Brady had the backing of the NFLPA, whereas Kraft did not. Appealing to the judge, jury and executioner did nothing for Brady but he had the ability to take it to the next level. Kraft did not have that option.
Kraft could have appealed. He could have challenged the findings, and even Goodells authority. He could have refused to accept Goodell/Wells findings, and refused to accept the punishment, making it a league issue, and making owners choose sides, and creating a knock down drag out fight.
He could have done this by having his own independent investigation done, by challenging Wells and Goodell, and if necessary going to court over it.
He could have kicked and screamed and stamped his feet. Wouldn't have made a difference. As far as making the owners choose sides? Really? Do you know what dogs do when one dog is injured in a fight? The other dogs attack the wounded one.
He could have supported Tom Brady. He could have said 'he better be' when asked if he expected Brady on the field week 1 instead of saying 'I hope everyone who deserves to play plays' he could have been the lead witness at the Brady's appeal, rather than refusing to testify. If his vacation was more important, he could have hurried from the airport to the hearing. If that was too much he could have not refused to testify by phone.
He could have stopped hugging Goodell.
I could go on.
He did support him by getting out of the way. What exactly would his tetimony have done anyway? He won the case without him. Realistically the only thing he might have done by testifying would have hindered the case, so he stayed out of it.

The Goodell hug was puke-worthy, I'll grant you that. I am dissapointed but not so much with his actions after the ruling as what he did before.

By challenging Roger's drunk-with-power egomaniacal self-image a week before the SB and demanding an apology he incurred the spiteful vindictivness of a man who considers himself a supreme overlord who is beyond all others to question his ultimate authority. His decision to bring down the hammer was made the moment Bob stepped away from the mike after getting off the plane in Glendale. He got bit by what he considers an ant so he spent the next few months burning him with a magnifying glass and he still can't let it go. Goodell is the ultimate example of an impetuous child who grew up and was given a position of power without ever being taught otherwise.
 
I think the idea of anyone rooting for their team's owner is a strange one. There's a reason that most sports movies use the owner as the villain or (in the best of cases) a weasel who is still a necessary evil because he/she funds the team. I think people are hurt because Kraft has always marketed himself as a fan first, and it turns out he's just like any other owner. But in hindsight that should have been expected.

Unfortunately, for some folks, the reason that Indy won all those games wasn't because of Peyton Manning's quarterbacking, it was because of Jim Irsay's ownership. As owners go he's a cut above the rest.
 
He could have kicked and screamed and stamped his feet. Wouldn't have made a difference. As far as making the owners choose sides? Really? Do you know what dogs do when one dog is injured in a fight? The other dogs attack the wounded one.

Of course. Anyone who thinks an owner is going to pretend to protect a player and a coach over the league and his franchise is ignorant at best, and most likely a fool who will never own a business.
 
YES Bob has overall been quite a good owner...in many aspects.

But to some of the people acting like Kraft is untouchable from criticism, give me a ****ing break.

Hiring Belichick and turning over football ops to him was a very great move. But why the hell should that alone shield him from his blunders?

His close relationship with Roger Goodell is sickening. That alone is enough for me to lose some respect for him. Goodell and his underlings are some of the most despicable officials in professional sports.

As a Patriots fan how can we not be completely pissed off and infuriated with Bob over deflate gate?

The coaches and the players, the guys we really care about were dragged through the mud by the league and the media. What Tom Brady went through this past offseason was horrible...over nothing. We can all agree with that.

So why couldn't Kraft have maintained strong rhetoric all the way through? He didn't need to crusade for the draft picks. He could have admitted that there was little the organization could do.

What Bob should have done is strongly stand by the team and Tom in the aftermath of the Wells Report. Reinforce the assertion that Tom Brady is innocent, that this entire debacle has been an unfair attack on both Brady and the team.

Instead he capitulated like a little *****. He was pictured shmoozimg with Goodell. He preached about the "good of the 32". He didn't offer up a damn bit of resistance to the sham that was deflate gate, the Wells Report and the witch hunt against Brady. That press conference was widely seen as an admission of guilt.

He may have changed his tune weeks later but too little too late. Bob deserves all the criticism he gets.
 
Fraudger is only left out because of the context of this thread. I think everyone is clear that it was him and his Jest pals and not Kraft that screwed us over
I know most here realize that. I'm just using it as a springboard to voice my hatred of him. Dissapointed some by Kraft? Yes. Hate him. No. As for Rogah.....
2609ca2b695c68f7a1f7ceb069925f51.jpg
 
Brady had the backing of the NFLPA, whereas Kraft did not. Appealing to the judge, jury and executioner did nothing for Brady but he had the ability to take it to the next level. Kraft did not have that option.
Why would Kraft need the NFLPA?
Of course he would have the ability to take it further.
He quit. You cannot defend that by saying oh well he would have lost anyway. Not honestly anyway.

He could have kicked and screamed and stamped his feet. Wouldn't have made a difference. As far as making the owners choose sides? Really? Do you know what dogs do when one dog is injured in a fight? The other dogs attack the wounded one.
This is idiotic. Who said kick scream and stomp his feet? He could publicly denounce the decision, the Commissioner, and Wells.
Aside from what dogs do, owners realizing, after a compelling defense is made in appeal that one of their own is being screwed, could be persuaded to help right the wrong. No owner is out to get Kraft. Most still think the team was guilty because no one ever made the proper case to them, or even tried.



He did support him by getting out of the way.
Come on. That's ignorant.


What exactly would his tetimony have done anyway? He won the case without him. Realistically the only thing he might have done by testifying would have hindered the case, so he stayed out of it.
He lost the appeal. In fact the appeal caused Goodell to increase the claims of wrong doing against Brady, while Kraft sat silent. Perhaps the fact that his own owner wouldn't speak as a character witness made Goodell think even Kraft felt he was guilty. After all, he accepted the penalties and would not say YES when asked if Brady deserved to play week 1.

The Goodell hug was puke-worthy, I'll grant you that. I am dissapointed but not so much with his actions after the ruling as what he did before.

By challenging Roger's drunk-with-power egomaniacal self-image a week before the SB and demanding an apology he incurred the spiteful vindictivness of a man who considers himself a supreme overlord who is beyond all others to question his ultimate authority. His decision to bring down the hammer was made the moment Bob stepped away from the mike after getting off the plane in Glendale. He got bit by what he considers an ant so he spent the next few months burning him with a magnifying glass and he still can't let it go. Goodell is the ultimate example of an impetuous child who grew up and was given a position of power without ever being taught otherwise.
Just wrong. Kraft is one of Goodells bosses, not his lackey. Well he shouldn't be his lackey.
Now your argument is that the Patriots were penalized because Kraft claimed innocence?

Honestly, no offense but you have the worst perspective on this of anyone I have ever spoken to about it.
 
the guys we really care about were dragged through the mud by the league and the media.

That mud is nothing compared to the damage these guys you care so much about inflict on each other for profit. The NFL is a business. The NFL is a meat grinder. Give up any fantasies you have about it. It isn't about honor, duty, god.
 
Unfortunately, for some folks, the reason that Indy won all those games wasn't because of Peyton Manning's quarterbacking, it was because of Jim Irsay's ownership. As owners go he's a cut above the rest.

This is true. As an owner he was responsible for hiring Bill Polian who ran the business for him.
 
YES Bob has overall been quite a good owner...in certain facets.

But to some of the people acting like Kraft is untouchable from criticism, give me a ****ing break.

Hiring Belichick and turning over football ops to him was a very great move. But why the hell should that alone shield him from his blunders?

His close relationship with Roger Goodell is sickening. That alone is enough for me to lose some respect for him. Goodell and his underlings are some of the most despicable officials in professional sports.

As a Patriots fan how can we not be completely pissed off and infuriated with Bob over deflate gate?

The coaches and the players, the guys we really care about were dragged through the mud by the league and the media. What Tom Brady went through this past offseason was horrible...over nothing. We can all agree with that.

So why couldn't Kraft have maintained strong rhetoric all the way through? He didn't need to crusade for the draft picks. He could have admitted that there was little the organization could do.

What Bob should have done is strongly stand by the team and Tom in the aftermath of the Wells Report. Reinforce the assertion that Tom Brady is innocent, that this entire debacle has been an unfair attack on both Brady and the team.

Instead he capitulated like a little *****. He was pictured shmoozimg with Goodell. He preached about the "good of the 32". He didn't offer up a damn bit of resistance to the sham that was deflate gate, the Wells Report and the witch hunt against Brady. That press conference was widely seen as an admission of guilt.

He may have changed his tune weeks later but too little too late. Bob deserves all the criticism he gets.

Kraft isn't just close with Goodell, he's the one who pushed to have him inserted as the Commish and to have his salary elevated to the stratosphere.
 
YES Bob has overall been quite a good owner...in many aspects.

But to some of the people acting like Kraft is untouchable from criticism, give me a ****ing break.

Hiring Belichick and turning over football ops to him was a very great move. But why the hell should that alone shield him from his blunders?

His close relationship with Roger Goodell is sickening. That alone is enough for me to lose some respect for him. Goodell and his underlings are some of the most despicable officials in professional sports.

As a Patriots fan how can we not be completely pissed off and infuriated with Bob over deflate gate?

The coaches and the players, the guys we really care about were dragged through the mud by the league and the media. What Tom Brady went through this past offseason was horrible...over nothing. We can all agree with that.

So why couldn't Kraft have maintained strong rhetoric all the way through? He didn't need to crusade for the draft picks. He could have admitted that there was little the organization could do.

What Bob should have done is strongly stand by the team and Tom in the aftermath of the Wells Report. Reinforce the assertion that Tom Brady is innocent, that this entire debacle has been an unfair attack on both Brady and the team.

Instead he capitulated like a little *****. He was pictured shmoozimg with Goodell. He preached about the "good of the 32". He didn't offer up a damn bit of resistance to the sham that was deflate gate, the Wells Report and the witch hunt against Brady. That press conference was widely seen as an admission of guilt.

He may have changed his tune weeks later but too little too late. Bob deserves all the criticism he gets.

Criticism yes, I agree..

Hate? Not so much
 
Why would Kraft need the NFLPA?
Of course he would have the ability to take it further.
He quit. You cannot defend that by saying oh well he would have lost anyway. Not honestly anyway.


This is idiotic. Who said kick scream and stomp his feet? He could publicly denounce the decision, the Commissioner, and Wells.
Aside from what dogs do, owners realizing, after a compelling defense is made in appeal that one of their own is being screwed, could be persuaded to help right the wrong. No owner is out to get Kraft. Most still think the team was guilty because no one ever made the proper case to them, or even tried.




Come on. That's ignorant.



He lost the appeal. In fact the appeal caused Goodell to increase the claims of wrong doing against Brady, while Kraft sat silent. Perhaps the fact that his own owner wouldn't speak as a character witness made Goodell think even Kraft felt he was guilty. After all, he accepted the penalties and would not say YES when asked if Brady deserved to play week 1.


Just wrong. Kraft is one of Goodells bosses, not his lackey. Well he shouldn't be his lackey.
Now your argument is that the Patriots were penalized because Kraft claimed innocence?

Honestly, no offense but you have the worst perspective on this of anyone I have ever spoken to about it.
goodell laughing 1.jpg

Does this perspective make sense? I understsand the angst toward Kraft, but I'm laser beam focused on the real A-hole.
 
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He had the right to appeal. I'm sure he has the legal right to challenge the findings by Ted Wells, even if can't take legal action vs the NFL itself.
The idea that bending over makes him more money, or implying that he would lose his team or something stupid like that if he stood up and didn't let himself get bamboozled is ridiculous and only the fodder of Kraft apologists looking for a reason they can invent.
Ok then. Your opinion differs from mine. Of course he had reasons to challenge his own partners decisions.
 
Defending his team against claims of cheating that cannot be proven, and in fact can be disproven is childish.
How would they get more penalties? The NFL has determined that the Patriots will have another pick taken away from them because they didn't agree with and support publicly our decision to trump up charges and take away picks. If they do not hold a press conference in 24 hours thanking the NFL for taking away this pick, we will take away more.

Ian, can you ban Andy & delete his posts?
If Goodell sees this, he'll do it.
 
did not read the 200+ posts but just offering my thoughts.
have mixed feelings towards kraft and while a lot of good has been done -- can't shake the idea he is just another one of 32. correct me if im wrong but i haven't heard any opposition from kraft on dumb league ideas like
- london team
- thursday night football
- longer regular season
no matter how bad the idea as long as it MIGHT increase money, kraft is along for the ride with other 31.
 
Defending his team against claims of cheating that cannot be proven, and in fact can be disproven is childish.
How would they get more penalties? The NFL has determined that the Patriots will have another pick taken away from them because they didn't agree with and support publicly our decision to trump up charges and take away picks. If they do not hold a press conference in 24 hours thanking the NFL for taking away this pick, we will take away more.
Who are the NFL Andy?
 
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