The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

If Kraft had done what he did procedurally, but at every point repeated that these are baseless, unjust and false accusations, he wouldn't be subject to these criticisms.

He did NOT say "I am not going to appeal, because I perceive no chance of winning. However, I want to take this opportunity to reiterate my view that Tom Brady is completely innocent, and the NFL is perpetrating a great injustice upon the Patriots."

He kind of sort of indicated that that was more or less approximately what he so to speak thought could be regarded as what he felt.

But he didn't take a strong, clear stand.

patsfaninpa said:

Yup. Been a Pats fan since 1976. I miss those Pre-Kraft Pats

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Same here...Sullivan/Fairbanks cat fight in 78 which screwed up our playoff game against Houston, the massive drug scandal post-86 SB, **** MacPherson posing as a real NFL head coach, the Sullivan/Michael Jackson tour travesty, those great early 90s juggernauts, James Orthwein's great ownership /flirting with St. Louis, Lisa Olson's sexual harassment, Zeke Mowatt and Victor Kiam making us all proud with their behavior toward Olson, being denied Monday night football for 10 years after the Labor Day night game against Pittsburgh where drunken fans at Foxboro Stadium embarrassed the entire region, culminating in some imbecile pissing on a guy writhing on the ground with a heart attack...ah, yes, the good old days...

Jackson 2 said:

Same here...Sullivan/Fairbanks cat fight in 78 which screwed up our playoff game against Houston, the massive drug scandal post-86 SB, **** MacPherson posing as a real NFL head coach, the Sullivan/Michael Jackson tour travesty, those great early 90s juggernauts, James Orthwein's great ownership /flirting with St. Louis, Lisa Olson's sexual harassment, Zeke Mowatt and Victor Kiam making us all proud with their behavior toward Olson, being denied Monday night football for 10 years after the Labor Day night game against Pittsburgh where drunken fans at Foxboro Stadium embarrassed the entire region, culminating in some imbecile pissing on a guy writhing on the ground with a heart attack...ah, yes, the good old days...

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You can also add the Hannah/Gray holdouts in 77. Cost us a playoff berth. Subsequent trade of Gray.
Sam Cunningham holdout in 80. Russ Francis holdout in 81. Mike Haynes holdout and trade in 83. We miss playoffs. He plays key role in their title run

robertweathers said:

PF Changs?? Appealing to the common folk?

What about Kowloon?

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I can't remember if the food was good or not, but after a half dozen scorpion bowls no else in my party could either.

What a freaking pile of garbage this thread is

Bob Kraft is the best owner in the NFL......now I could be setting the bar awfully low here, but we've had nothing but consistent relative success since he's been here.

now the pre Kraft pats were cute in a miserable sort of way.......I started paying attention around the time Fairbanks became the coach so I do have the luxury of putting the Bob Kraft Pats in the context of a larger portion of Pats history

But I have to say.......you have to be a spoiled idiot to NOT appreciate Bob Kraft and all he has done for the New England sports fanbase. People like that deserve an eternity of Harry Sinden

OhExaulted1 said:

I can't remember if the food was good or not, but after a half dozen scorpion bowls no else in my party could either.

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I was 1/2 kidding as it's a popular local joint.

Eddie Andelman used to rave about the place. I remember the food there is OK IMO.

Saw some comedy shows there back in 90s.

patsfaninpa said:

You can also add the Hannah/Gray holdouts in 77. Cost us a playoff berth. Subsequent trade of Gray.
Sam Cunningham holdout in 80. Russ Francis holdout in 81. Mike Haynes holdout and trade in 83. We miss playoffs. He plays key role in their title run

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Good additions! Those were great days, weren't they?

IllegalContact said:

What a freaking pile of garbage this thread is

Bob Kraft is the best owner in the NFL......now I could be setting the bar awfully low here, but we've had nothing but consistent relative success since he's been here.

now the pre Kraft pats were cute in a miserable sort of way.......I started paying attention around the time Fairbanks became the coach so I do have the luxury of putting the Bob Kraft Pats in the context of a larger portion of Pats history

But I have to say.......you have to be a spoiled idiot to NOT appreciate Bob Kraft and all he has done for the New England sports fanbase. People like that deserve an eternity of Harry Sinden

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Don't forget all-stars such as John Y. Brown...

tom444 said:

What's idiotic is fans complaining about an owner who has brought so much success to one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL. Now that's incredibly idiotic.

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Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are the reasons why the Pats have been successful, in that order. Kraft has rewarded them by siding with his pal Goodell and calling Belichick a "schmuck" in 2007 and enabling Brady to be labeled a cheater in 2015, all while calling the team a family.

alvinnf said:

Yeah, he goes along to get along. F-him! Neville Chamberlain.

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Why do people with no actual sense of history try to put WWII on Chamberlains shoulders and leave Hitler blameless? Mind Boggling.

This is all Krafts fault and not Roger's then by the comparison you're trying to make. I find this logic flawed. I don't need a long drawn out post about WWII history to attempt to justify your comparison. You invoked Chamberlains name. This is nowhere near a reasonable comparison in my eyes.

LightSkinSmurf said:

Not happy about how everything went down but I'm done complaining about it, personally. I have moved on.

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I'm moving on when Brady retires. He earned the respect of every Pats fan and every past and present player.

Unless Kraft leads a revolt against Goodell this offseason, he is just another owner.

SalemPats said:

Unless Kraft leads a revolt against Goodell this offseason, he is just another owner.

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LOL, who exactly is he gonna "lead" in this insurrection? The other 31 owners are the ones who wanted Goodell to nail the Patriots. They love him right now. Where in god's name has this fallacy come from that there is this restlessness among the natives (owners) about Goodell? He done exactly what a good little boy who's been told what to do should do.

ivanvamp said:

I understand the frustration. But what avenues were available to Kraft? Haven't we been over this? He had no options. So he figured he would sacrifice the picks in the hopes that it would mollify Goodell and keep Goodell from coming down on Brady. He was wrong, and he acknowledged as such.

It's easy to say he was a coward; what was he supposed to do?

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I think you're right on the substance, but, as is often the case, the "substance" is only half the equation.

Yes, Kraft had few, if any, realistic alternatives. But he should have been defiant in acknowledging the position he was in and not gushed over the priority of "the 32" or whatever other nonsense words he used. He should have sustained the anger that he portrayed in Arizona while reluctantly acknowledging the box he was in.

Instead, he reacted to the cold shoulder that he was getting from the other owners and put a higher priority on being a "feel good" member of the club over taking a strong stand in support of Brady and the organization.

That was an error and one that he has said he regrets. It's self-serving and even disingenuous for him to say now that he thought he could "mollify Goodell" and the other owners. He's too smart a businessman to have thought that "being nice" counts for very much and he made a major mistake in how he positioned himself.

He should have said something like, "We're being screwed and I've concluded that, while my legal options are limited, I will continue to expose the lie that has been perpetrated against my Quarterback and my organization>"

He has since acknowledged that he was wrong in expressing his trust of the league office and the league, but the damage was done and his public posture emboldened Goodell and the other owners.

I don't think that he or Jonathan is letting this go and I do think he will eventually get his revenge on Goodell, but it will have to be a "dish served cold."

Mack Herron said:

Not necessarily. Kraft could have assumed the role of the cowardly lap dog because he thought it would be good for his financial future. He could have made such an assumption even if it were incorrect. Of course we cannot know what he was thinking. What we can say is that he did not act out of any principled sense of right and wrong. He willingly relinquished his ability to think and act for his team and his QB and placed his trust in Goodell. He now admits that was a mistake, but we still see him schmoozing with Goodell while his QB gets booed at a ceremony where he was being honored, and his team is forever regarded as unethical cheaters. In terms of managing the brand, as they say in the business world, Kraft gets an "F". And he is crying all the way to the bank.

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Your conclusion is contradictory. If you get an "F" in brand management, it's going to hurt you at the bank eventually.

IllegalContact said:

What a freaking pile of garbage this thread is

Bob Kraft is the best owner in the NFL......now I could be setting the bar awfully low here, but we've had nothing but consistent relative success since he's been here.

now the pre Kraft pats were cute in a miserable sort of way.......I started paying attention around the time Fairbanks became the coach so I do have the luxury of putting the Bob Kraft Pats in the context of a larger portion of Pats history

But I have to say.......you have to be a spoiled idiot to NOT appreciate Bob Kraft and all he has done for the New England sports fanbase. People like that deserve an eternity of Harry Sinden

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The winning didn't start until Brady took over as QB. Until then they had some success in the 80s and 90s, but no SB wins and nothing like we've seen with TB12. Anyone who thinks that the Pats will have the same success with another QB besides Brady is in for a big surprise, no matter who the owner or HC may be.

Fencer said:

If Kraft had done what he did procedurally, but at every point repeated that these are baseless, unjust and false accusations, he wouldn't be subject to these criticisms.

He did NOT say "I am not going to appeal, because I perceive no chance of winning. However, I want to take this opportunity to reiterate my view that Tom Brady is completely innocent, and the NFL is perpetrating a great injustice upon the Patriots."

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This! Exactly this!

I can't understand why the Kraft suckups can't understand that.

Sometimes you do something because it's right, even if you do have no chance of winning.

And for god's sake, in an industry like this you FIGHT THE F*CKING PR WAR rather than putting your tail between your legs and your head up your azz and go hiding in a cave.

All Kraft has done is put a giant "Kick me! Screw me! We're soft, easy marks!" sign on the team's back.

And no, I'm not OK with that and Vichy Bob deserves to be roasted and roasted hard for it.

1960Pats said:

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are the reasons why the Pats have been successful, in that order. Kraft has rewarded them by siding with his pal Goodell and calling Belichick a "schmuck" in 2007 and enabling Brady to be labeled a cheater in 2015, all while calling the team a family.

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How did Belichick become our head coach? Divine intervention??

QuantumMechanic said:

This! Exactly this!

I can't understand why the Kraft suckups can't understand that.

Sometimes you do something because it's right, even if you do have no chance of winning.

And for god's sake, in an industry like this you FIGHT THE F*CKING PR WAR rather than putting your tail between your legs and your head up your azz and go hiding in a cave.

All Kraft has done is put a giant "Kick me! Screw me! We're soft, easy marks!" sign on the team's back.

And no, I'm not OK with that and Vichy Bob deserves to be roasted and roasted hard for it.

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Pretty much agree. Kraft's concession speech was the lowest point for a lot of us during this whole thing, I think.

Kraft not being able to get the picks back doesn't mean he had to do what he did. It was an awful, awful misstep.

OhExaulted1 said:

Why do people with no actual sense of history try to put WWII on Chamberlains shoulders and leave Hitler blameless?

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I don't think anybody who invokes Chamberlain's name ever leaves Hitler blameless. What an odd thing to say.