OT: Broncos Defense and their All-Time rating

Joey007 · Feb 9, 2016

Our defenses were among the great, but they were in a more balanced out way in what they did to get the job done and finish games.

To me, over the last 30 years I'd only put the 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens ahead of it, with the 02 Bucs and 13 Seahawks right behind.

meatface · Feb 10, 2016

Not even close to top 5

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RobertWeathers · Feb 10, 2016

Joey007 said:
Our defenses were among the great, but they were in a more balanced out way in what they did to get the job done and finish games.

To me, over the last 30 years I'd only put the 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens ahead of it, with the 02 Bucs and 13 Seahawks right behind.

To put it in perspective DEN won out vs a Pitt team w/o the best WR and RB in the NFL and banged up QB at home, a Pats team with a bad Oline and no running game and a vastly overrated CAR team.

None of these teams are going to remind anyone of the 2001 Rams.

mosey threetupu · Feb 12, 2016

I think people are forgetting just how good that Bucs defense was. And it wasn't just for one season.

CelticPatriot · Feb 12, 2016

I'm not sure, behind the 2016 Pats though

PF_SU · Feb 13, 2016

mosey threetupu said:
I think people are forgetting just how good that Bucs defense was. And it wasn't just for one season.

I think that 2002 Bucs team is flying a bit under the radar. They were ridiculously good, especially in the passing game. Just look at opposing QBs performance against that D:

50.8% cmp, 2490 yards, 10 TDs, 31 INTs, rating of 48.4 (!!!), ANY/A (to factor in for sacks and INTs) of 2.3

This is mind-boggling even considering the fact that the passing rules were not skewed as heavily in favour of the offense as today. If we set these numbers in relation to the average performance by QBs that year:

-8.8% cmp, -56.6 yards/game, -11.7 TDs, +14.5 INTs, -30.2 rating, -3.0 ANY/A

Comparing that to the relative performance of other great defenses in NFL history:

1976 Steelers: -9.8% cmp, -18.7 yards/game, -6.4 TDs, +4.2 INTs, -18.4 rating, -1.5 ANY/A
1985 Bears: -7.1% cmp, -28.5 yards/game, -5.4 TDs, +12.5 INTs, -19.5 rating, -2.2 ANY/A
1996 Packers: -5.6% cmp, -36.1 yards/game, -8.9 TDs, +7.9 INTs, -19.6 rating, -2.0 ANY/A
2000 Ravens: -2.3% cmp, -19.6 yards/game, -9.5 TDs, +5.9 INTs, -13.7 rating, -1.3 ANY/A
2008 Steelers: -4.5% cmp, -54.4 yards/game, -8.2 TDs, +5.5 INTs, -18.1 rating, -2.5 ANY/A
2013 Seahawks: -2.2% cmp, -49.1 yards/game, -9.1 TDs, +12.3 INTs, -20.7 rating, -2.7 ANY/A

Also to compare to this year's Broncos and the best Patriots team under Belichick

2015 Broncos: -3.0% cmp, -44.2 yards/game, -7.3 TDs, +0.4 INTs, -9.6 rating, -1.6 ANY/A
2003 Patriots: -5.7% cmp, +1.6 yards/game, -9.4 TDs, +12.2 INTs, -20.4 rating, -1.9 ANY/A

Just in terms of passing D I would say that the 2002 Buccaneers are clearly the best of all time. You just couldn't pass against them. Not only that, but their ballhawks would make you pay dearly if you tried. And they also kept that performance up in the playoffs:

vs 49ers: 53.7% cmp, 166 yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, 35.9 rating (regular season: 62.0%, 216.1 yards/game, 23 TDs, 10 INTs, 86.0 rating)
vs Eagles: 53.1% cmp, 232 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 58.5 rating (regular season: 58.0%, 211.5 yards/game, 27 TDs, 11 INTs, 85.9 rating)
vs Raiders: 54.5% cmp, 250 yards, 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 41.1 rating (regular season: 67.5%, 279.7 yards/game, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, 97.2 rating)

For those who prefer the eye test:

2002 NFCCG at Philadelphia

Super Bowl XXXVII in San Diego

PATSYLICIOUS · Feb 13, 2016

They may not be purely top 5 or top 10 even, but i will say that carrying this offense to a sb win is the most impressive feat of any defense i have ever seen. Didnt the qb throw 9 tds vs 17 picks this year? To win a title with that is unheard of.

The 2000 ravens, 2003 pats, 2013 seahawks, 2002 bucs all had solid to great qb performances especially in the playoffs and decent offensive output (never got to watch the 85 bears or any previous great d). The broncos d was the whole team in the playoffs outside of the freebie td we gave them to start the afcc.

RobertWeathers · Feb 13, 2016

PATSYLICIOUS said:
They may not be purely top 5 or top 10 even, but i will say that carrying this offense to a sb win is the most impressive feat of any defense i have ever seen. Didnt the qb throw 9 tds vs 17 picks this year? To win a title with that is unheard of.

The 2000 ravens, 2003 pats, 2013 seahawks, 2002 bucs all had solid to great qb performances especially in the playoffs and decent offensive output (never got to watch the 85 bears or any previous great d). The broncos d was the whole team in the playoffs outside of the freebie td we gave them to start the afcc.

Check out Dilfers 2000 playoff run. Pretty much on par with Peytons. Brad Johnson's in 2002 was also nothing to write home about.

In NE and Pitt DEN played two banged up teams that were limited offensively. In Car, it was proven that their QB wasn't ready for the big lights

RobertWeathers · Feb 13, 2016

PF_SU said:
I think that 2002 Bucs team is flying a bit under the radar. They were ridiculously good, especially in the passing game. Just look at opposing QBs performance against that D:

50.8% cmp, 2490 yards, 10 TDs, 31 INTs, rating of 48.4 (!!!), ANY/A (to factor in for sacks and INTs) of 2.3

This is mind-boggling even considering the fact that the passing rules were not skewed as heavily in favour of the offense as today. If we set these numbers in relation to the average performance by QBs that year:

-8.8% cmp, -56.6 yards/game, -11.7 TDs, +14.5 INTs, -30.2 rating, -3.0 ANY/A

Comparing that to the relative performance of other great defenses in NFL history:

1976 Steelers: -9.8% cmp, -18.7 yards/game, -6.4 TDs, +4.2 INTs, -18.4 rating, -1.5 ANY/A
1985 Bears: -7.1% cmp, -28.5 yards/game, -5.4 TDs, +12.5 INTs, -19.5 rating, -2.2 ANY/A
1996 Packers: -5.6% cmp, -36.1 yards/game, -8.9 TDs, +7.9 INTs, -19.6 rating, -2.0 ANY/A
2000 Ravens: -2.3% cmp, -19.6 yards/game, -9.5 TDs, +5.9 INTs, -13.7 rating, -1.3 ANY/A
2008 Steelers: -4.5% cmp, -54.4 yards/game, -8.2 TDs, +5.5 INTs, -18.1 rating, -2.5 ANY/A
2013 Seahawks: -2.2% cmp, -49.1 yards/game, -9.1 TDs, +12.3 INTs, -20.7 rating, -2.7 ANY/A

Also to compare to this year's Broncos and the best Patriots team under Belichick

2015 Broncos: -3.0% cmp, -44.2 yards/game, -7.3 TDs, +0.4 INTs, -9.6 rating, -1.6 ANY/A
2003 Patriots: -5.7% cmp, +1.6 yards/game, -9.4 TDs, +12.2 INTs, -20.4 rating, -1.9 ANY/A

Just in terms of passing D I would say that the 2002 Buccaneers are clearly the best of all time. You just couldn't pass against them. Not only that, but their ballhawks would make you pay dearly if you tried. And they also kept that performance up in the playoffs:

vs 49ers: 53.7% cmp, 166 yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, 35.9 rating (regular season: 62.0%, 216.1 yards/game, 23 TDs, 10 INTs, 86.0 rating)
vs Eagles: 53.1% cmp, 232 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 58.5 rating (regular season: 58.0%, 211.5 yards/game, 27 TDs, 11 INTs, 85.9 rating)
vs Raiders: 54.5% cmp, 250 yards, 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 41.1 rating (regular season: 67.5%, 279.7 yards/game, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, 97.2 rating)

For those who prefer the eye test:

2002 NFCCG at Philadelphia

Super Bowl XXXVII in San Diego

There in my top 5 of all time. Just remember that D being so fast to the ball...
There should be no debate on this. 2002 Bucs were absolutely a better D than the Broncos.

People are also overlooking the 1986 and 1990 Giants defenses.

PATSYLICIOUS · Feb 14, 2016

robertweathers said:
Check out Dilfers 2000 playoff run. Pretty much on par with Peytons. Brad Johnson's in 2002 was also nothing to write home about.

Disagreed. Dilfer turned the ball over once in 4 playoff games. Manning had 3 in 3 playoff games. Thats a major difference when evaluating game manager qbs. Brad johnson threw 5 tds in his playoff run to peyton's 2 with the same # of turnovers. 5 tds is nothing to write home about we agree there, but its more than double mannings total. Both of those qbs were easily better than manning in the playoffs and dont come close to mannings putrid regular season - 9 tds to 17 picks, 68 rating.

Schmo · Feb 14, 2016

I think looking at which teams had defensive mvps in the super bowl is a good place to start. There have been 9 defensive(10 if you count both Harvey Martin and Randy White for the '77 Cowboys) and 1 ST player (grrr).

'70 cowboys, '72 dolphins, '77 cowboys, '85 bears, '95 cowboys, '00 Ravens, '02 bucs, '13 Seahawks, '15 broncos

I'm not saying those are the best 9.... It essentially means that the defense of the best team in the league had to win the biggest game for the offense. All you have to do to be the mvp as the winning qb is to throw 2TDs (or 1 in peyton's case).

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! · Feb 15, 2016

fightingirish595 said:
I got them in my top 5. Crazy pass rush. When you dont get their, seems like their coverage is great and its hard to get open. Probably the only team to win a superbowl with a terrible run game and pass game. Think about what they did this year with the way the rules are. They led the league in almost every category on defense. They won games they looked like they had no business winning because they forced a turnover and brought it to the house. Great defenses score. I think the 85 Bears are hands down the best of all time. 76 Steelers right behind them. and then the 2000 ravens. I got the Broncos at number 4 slightly ahead of the Seahawks and Buccaneers

The way the rules are didn't apply to them.

RobertWeathers · Feb 15, 2016

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Disagreed. Dilfer turned the ball over once in 4 playoff games. Manning had 3 in 3 playoff games. Thats a major difference when evaluating game manager qbs. Brad johnson threw 5 tds in his playoff run to peyton's 2 with the same # of turnovers. 5 tds is nothing to write home about we agree there, but its more than double mannings total. Both of those qbs were easily better than manning in the playoffs and dont come close to mannings putrid regular season - 9 tds to 17 picks, 68 rating.

I don't think you remember watching Trent Dilfer. 2015 Manning blows 2000 Dilfer away.

PATSYLICIOUS · Feb 15, 2016

robertweathers said:
I don't think you remember watching Trent Dilfer. 2015 Manning blows 2000 Dilfer away.

Thats not the way i saw it and the numbers tend to disagree as well.

A man named Brady · Feb 15, 2016

When I rank defense all time I look at the competition they faced(QB most important), Era/Rules, and the offense they had to carry. For example the 2000 Ravens faced an extremely soft schedule when it came to QB's in both the RS and Postseason. The 2013 Seahawks Had a dominant rushing attack and a Highly efficient passing game(and overall great offense). The 70's steelers played at a time when you could literally mug recievers.

RobertWeathers · Feb 15, 2016

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Thats not the way i saw it and the numbers tend to disagree as well.

2000 BAL
Offensive Points average (4 games): 16.75

2015 Broncos
Offensive points average (3 games): 19.6

PF_SU · Feb 15, 2016

I find it a bit strange to argue a defense is better because their offense was worse. Does it help the defense to have a good offense? Yes, but in the end it still comes down to how the defense itself performed. Looking at the whole season it's hardly possible to make the argument that the 2015 Broncos had a better defense than let's say the 2002 Bucs. And just looking at the playoffs I likewise have a hard time to follow the argumentation.

Fact is, that 2002 Tampa Bay D forced 13 turnovers in three playoff games (!), including four they ran back for touchdowns. Their D also had to contend with shaky special teams play (whereas the Broncos' special teams unit did pretty great this postseason) and Brad Johnson's interceptions were arguably worse than Manning's turnovers since they came deep in own territory compared to Manning's near midfield. Against San Francisco the 49ers two FGs came off drives that started at the 49ers 31 and Bucs 46. Against the Eagles the touchdown got set-up by a 70-yard return that brought the Eagles offense to the Bucs 26 while the FG drive started at the Bucs 38. And in the Super Bowl three points came off a Johnson interception that put the Raiders offense at the Bucs 36 and one of the touchdowns was a blocked punt.

OT: Broncos Defense and their All-Time rating

Joey007

Pro Bowl Player

meatface

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

mosey threetupu

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

CelticPatriot

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

PF_SU

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PATSYLICIOUS

PatsFans.com Supporter

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

PATSYLICIOUS

PatsFans.com Supporter

Schmo

In the Starting Line-Up

ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

In the Starting Line-Up

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

PATSYLICIOUS

PatsFans.com Supporter

A man named Brady

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

PF_SU

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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