View : "It's Hard to Play Two Teams" ...

Norman is a whiny *****, but he's not totally wrong either. The Broncos not getting flagged even once in the second half made it a little blatant.

Although given how thoroughly the Denver D annihilated Carolina's offense, it probably wasn't necessary anyway. That was an absolute throttling.

ViperGTS said:

Such a shame. You are either naive or dumb. I don't think your dumb.

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Really? How long, in your opinion, has the league been in the match-fixing business? Did it start this year? Hard to believe they wanted the Patriots to win last year, isn't it? Yet we did. Why not call pass interference on the Butler interception? That would have been a bad call, but no one outside of New England would have suspected a fix if it had been made. Or is it that the league only wants to fix up to a point---they don't want to make it too obvious? I mean, the league is so skilled at at strategic maneuvers and being subtle. And to what end all of this? Does the league make more money if Peyton wins last night vs Cam? Do they do market analysis of this question before issuing the appropriate instructions to the referees? Or do they just think Peyton is a swell guy and would risk the entire future of the league on ensuring that he goes out happy?

Maybe it goes back further? Does it go back to the Ray Lewis and Jerome Bettis sendoffs?, the latter of which was on Tagliabue's watch. Or does it go back to 2001? Wasn't that a great story, to have the Patriots win the Super Bowl after 9/11? Does it go even further back? I'm curious about your views on these questions. Because, I suspect your explanation requires quite a few unlikely assumptions and leaps of logic, whereas mine is quite simple--NFL refs are not perfect, and make at least several bad calls every game.

letekro said:

Really? How long, in your opinion, has the league been in the match-fixing business? Did it start this year? Hard to believe they wanted the Patriots to win last year, isn't it? Yet we did. Why not call pass interference on the Butler interception? That would have been a bad call, but no one outside of New England would have suspected a fix if it had been made. Or is it that the league only wants to fix up to a point---they don't want to make it too obvious? I mean, the league is so skilled at at strategic maneuvers and being subtle. And to what end all of this? Does the league make more money if Peyton wins last night vs Cam? Do they do market analysis of this question before issuing the appropriate instructions to the referees? Or do they just think Peyton is a swell guy and would risk the entire future of the league on ensuring that he goes out happy?

Maybe it goes back further? Does it go back to the Ray Lewis and Jerome Bettis sendoffs?, the latter of which was on Tagliabue's watch. Or does it go back to 2001? Wasn't that a great story, to have the Patriots win the Super Bowl after 9/11? Does it go even further back? I'm curious about your views on these questions. Because, I suspect your explanation requires quite a few unlikely assumptions and leaps of logic, whereas mine is quite simple--NFL refs are not perfect, and make at least several bad calls every game.

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They don't fix them overtly. They can influence them. Anytime 100 percent of the people are agreed on (catch last night) a replay call, and the NFL goes the other way you have to ask why. It's about influence. Then the very next play what I refer to as an act of God occurred. So their influence helped the Broncos get a lead.

The first test major case was the '07 SB. It passed because of the hatred towards the Pats. Once that occurred, the next major test was the replacement refs. The Seattle/GB game was a disaster and the Packers got hosed. Hosed. Yet nothing really happened. A week later, the Pats got jobbed in Baltimore. Again no one cared. Move on to Ray Lewis and his remarkable recovery form the bicep injury. That SB was sketchy as best. All of this was to gauge public reaction. What can they get away with and still have people be indifferent.

As far as the Butler play, it happened so fast I don't think the officials saw it. If they had the laundry would have come out.

Marko said:

I was scared when Manning came into the Chargers game, that this would happen. First we had Jerome Bettis in Detroit, was that the SB with Seattle? Because we all know how that went. Then you have Ray Lewis against SF with a complete mugging in the end zone of 49ers receiver to win the game that goes uncalled, compared to that momentary hook of Thomas. Then Brady getting called for a safety on a dubious grounding penalty against the Giants. Followed by Manning, and his Broncos, who got what they needed. If that PI/holding penalty gets called for Ginn, the Panthers have the ball first and goal from the nine. It doesn't take much, late hits on both Brady and Newton were allowed, that would have changed the tenor of the game. When they missed the field goal my first thought was that it was because Talib distracted him just enough with pressure, only to find out he was way offsides. Denver's defense was smothering, but that only makes these missed calls all the more important.
Don't think they outright fix the game buto in tight games a correctly timed call or non-call can make. huge difference.

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^understands it

This is the Parity league because of the hard cap, draft setup and arbitrary removal of picks from teams.

Games are close every single week and it doesn't take much to flip the script. The NFL has made their position of "leaving it up to the officials" pretty clear.

I really wish more people would listen to BB and the shiet he proposes and says at the league meetings. The NFL is not short on money by any means, yet they refuse to put cameras down the goal line. They refuse to make the rules clear, concise and easy to enforce. Instead they opt for the officials to make decision and discuss things amongst themselves to conclude with answers that contradict what everyone at home sees.

On to the next play seems to be the NFL's mantra and when it decides a game, on to the next week.

ViperGTS said:

They don't fix them overtly. They can influence them. Anytime 100 percent of the people are agreed on (catch last night) a replay call, and the NFL goes the other way you have to ask why. It's about influence. Then the very next play what I refer to as an act of God occurred. So their influence helped the Broncos get a lead.

The first test major case was the '07 SB. It passed because of the hatred towards the Pats. Once that occurred, the next major test was the replacement refs. The Seattle/GB game was a disaster and the Packers got hosed. Hosed. Yet nothing really happened. A week later, the Pats got jobbed in Baltimore. Again no one cared. Move on to Ray Lewis and his remarkable recovery form the bicep injury. That SB was sketchy as best. All of this was to gauge public reaction. What can they get away with and still have people be indifferent.

As far as the Butler play, it happened so fast I don't think the officials saw it. If they had the laundry would have come out.

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Well, thanks for responding. Interesting, to say the least.

Edit: Why do you think it started in 2007? Why not in 2005? There, you had the officials seemingly willing a Indy victory over the Steelers, only to have the Steelers win and then the officials seemingly went all out for a Pitts win against Seattle? What is the explanation for the atrocious calls in those games, in your view?

Edit: Why not in 2001? Patriots seemed to benefit from some favorable calls (tuck rule, Vrabel hit to the head, generalized mugging of the St. Louis receivers, and it was a great story line to have them win after 9/11.

Von Miller wasn't wearing stripes.

denverpatsfan said:

I am not a fan of the officiating either but Carolina did not show up. You can rig a game where one of the two teams doesn't show up?

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Well, two things:

First, Denver was the overwhelming beneficiary of dodgy calls at many points all year long. It's not just the SB that had questionable officiating. If the officiating all year had been more balanced, who knows, Denver may not have even participated in last night's game.

Secondly, your argument that it's not game rigging if it turns out one team would have ultimately won without outside help. Is like saying a guy who robs a bank, then hits the powerball the next day shouldn't be prosecuted. Since he's now rich, even without the take from the bank heist.

Peachhead said:

Well, two things:

First, Denver was the overwhelming beneficiary of dodgy calls at many points all year long. It's not just the SB that had questionable officiating. If the officiating all year had been more balanced, who knows, Denver may not have even participated in last night's game.

Secondly, your argument that it's not game rigging if it turns out one team would have ultimately won without outside help. Is like saying a guy who robs a bank, then hits the powerball the next day shouldn't be prosecuted. Since he's now rich, even without the take from the bank heist.

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How can you POSSIBLY make this claim? Have you reviewed all-22 footage of all 19 games? Do you understand that, because you are rooting against Denver, you will perceive that a disproportionate amount of the calls are going in their favor because your mind will focus on and remember the calls that upset you (the ones in their favor) and not those that don't upset you (the ones that go against them)?

Living in the mid West, I saw most Denver games this year. And while I haven't reviewed the all 22 of all or any of their games, I can say the league mantra appeared to be "when in doubt, or if it's close, rule in Denver's favor (and it wasn't just the Pats game)

Sfpat said:

Living in the mid West, I saw most Denver games this year. And while I haven't reviewed the all 22 of all or any of their games, I can say the league mantra appeared to be "when in doubt, or if it's close, rule in Denver's favor (and it wasn't just the Pats game)

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This is due to the phenomenon i described. Its the same reason that if you go onto a Denver messageboard during Pats week, they are all lamenting the fact that the Pats get all the calls.

Both fanbases believe in good faith that the officials favor the other team, but both fan bases are mistaken.

yeah...remember when you saw the "pushing the pile" penalty called at the end of a game, or at ANY PART of ANY game ever again? Remember when THAT directly led to a victory by one bitter rival over another in a heated division, as both teams vied for the playoffs? Remember when the league officials explaining the call as "just and honest" were found to be ex-employees of that winning team and then went on to hide in the shadows of the AFC championship game, waiting to pounce at halftime screaming "I GOTCHA!! YOU'RE IN BIG TROUBLE NOW!!!!!!" ?

Remember? Yeah, it's all just one big confirmation bias phenomenon going on...just like Watergate was all bullshyt. Until it wasn't.

To anyone who has been witness to what this commissioner and league office have done the last few years: if you don't believe that there is nothing enethical or illegal that is out of the realm of possibility, I simply don't know what else to tell you.

The Jericho Cotchery catch that was ruled incomplete showed me the fix was in. The NFL ruled on that from the home office.

The New York Times would appear to agree:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/sports/football/jerricho-cotchery-darian-stewart.html?_r=0

TomPatriot said:

Von Miller wasn't wearing stripes.

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You mean Von Mr Offsides Miller the steroid cheat?

Joker said:

yeah...remember when you saw the "pushing the pile" penalty called at the end of a game, or at ANY PART of ANY game ever again? Remember when THAT directly led to a victory by one bitter rival over another in a heated division, as both teams vied for the playoffs? Remember when the league officials explaining the call as "just and honest" were found to be ex-employees of that winning team and then went on to hide in the shadows of the AFC championship game, waiting to pounce at halftime screaming "I GOTCHA!! YOU'RE IN BIG TROUBLE NOW!!!!!!" ?

Remember? Yeah, it's all just one big confirmation bias phenomenon going on...just like Watergate was all bullshyt. Until it wasn't.

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I'm sorry Joker, you're right. Confirmation bias applies to all 32 fanbases, except ours. Of course.

Been watching sports since 1967. Thats a LONG time. Always found these conspiracy nuts to be...nuts.

Now? I don't think they are nuts anymore. Actually, I think if you believe the NFL is now on the level, YOUare nuts.

ScottishPatriots said:

When you fumble the ball and stand there and look at it on the ground in a 6pt game with under 5 minutes left to play, i have a hard time subscribing to ref theories why you lost.

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Don't you see... Even Cam was in on it!

ViperGTS said:

I've said millions of times like beating a dead horse. It's a multi billion dollar industry that has permeated the lives of hundreds of millions of people. They will not just "let it ride". The parity thing is great on the surface but by the time high draft picks get good, they either leave the "poorer" teams or get overpaid and handcuff their current teams' payroll. It's a lose-lose.

If we had a justice system worth half a damn anymore, the NFL would be investigated for multiple things. Raids would be carried out simultaneously on NFL headquarters, NFLPA, and the offices and auxiliaries of all 32 NFL teams. Yes this includes the Patriots but can't ask for everyone else and not them. The fallout would be astounding and would be the biggest story outside of landing on the moon in the past 60 years.

Of course this would never happen, but it should. The Giants '07 SB would be stripped for certain. The Ravens in '12 as well. There are more I am sure, but boy do I wish a day such as that would happen. The NFL as currently constituted would be dead and a better one would rise up.

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I've said the same in previous threads, raids, investigations..... I totally agree. And I understand some people being apprehensive. I was, up to a few years ago. But there is no doubt in my mind that there is tipping of the scales going on now. And with "legal" bets being placed on games, manipulating the outcome is racketeering at its worst.

Jackson 2 said:

To anyone who has been witness to what this commissioner and league office have done the last few years: if you don't believe that there is nothing enethical or illegal that is out of the realm of possibility, I simply don't know what else to tell you.

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This is a picture of those people from earlier today.

Embarrassing thread.