PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Patriots fan files consumer complaint against the NFL


Status
Not open for further replies.
How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers

(a little out dated - in part because the NFL gave up its tax exempt status - no doubt wanting to proactively address an issue that would have come up - and minimize scrutiny over what anti-trust exemption grants them

Note that 12 stadiums receiving public dollars have actually PROFITED from the subsidies alone - that is they took in more taxpayer dollars then it cost to build

First, that article was written by idiotic moron Gregg Easterbrook (guess his brother Frank got all the brains in the family) so I wouldn't take one thing in it at face value, without supporting citations.

Second, only the NFL "umbrella" had the tax exemption. The vast, vast majority of revenues goes to the 32 teams which (other than the Packers) are all for-profit, fully-taxable entities.

That said I would be all for killing the tax-exemption for interest on any state/muni debt used to finance any private activity, especially stadiums. And I am totally against cities and states funding these ludicrous sweetheart deals.
 
I would applaud and congratulate Kraft on any effort to try to get the draft picks back. It would go along way to show that he cares about his team and its fans.
 
Can't visit the bowels of PatsFans ever again.
The moderator, Patters, is a card-carrying commie who is on a self- appointed mission to convert evil capitalists to the dark side....Darryl has been turned....and if memory serves me right, you too. Why Ian allows her to run amuck over there is puzzling. :) Thank god for Harry. :)
Slightly OT: my AC repairman was just at my house and we were discussing why Socialist Bernie Sanders was attracting such support from the impressionable/ignorant college age crowd....and having grown up in Socialist /Communist Bulgaria, the repairman said if these 2o somethings actually knew what life was like living in that type of restricted society, they would never support such a politician. He then told me of his years living in socialist Sweden visiting homes with so few possessions inside because the government overtaxes the population to fund everything. He said most people there are miserable.
Not that I don't believe you but why are you having your ac worked on in February?
 
I think the smart move is to wait and see how this plays out after the Second Circuit rules on the Appeal.

Goodell did not give a straight answer at his SB presser as to whether Brady would have to serve his suspension, even if the League prevails on the Appeal. That suggests they know that the factual underpinnings of the findings have crumbled beneath them.
Bullcrap. They never had "factual underpinnings" but that didn't stop them from going after Brady with a VENDETTA. Don't sit here and tell me "oh well if the league wins, they might not make him serve it."
 
Bullcrap. They never had "factual underpinnings" but that didn't stop them from going after Brady with a VENDETTA. Don't sit here and tell me "oh well if the league wins, they might not make him serve it."
they erroneously thought they had a facts based case until they were forced to discover the IGL. now all they have is a broad interpretation of the cba and the hope that they draw two pro management judges on their panel.
neither you nor I know what's going to happen if the league prevails nor do we know what is going on behind the scenes.
 
I appreciate all the wannabe (or actual) attorneys on this board (I'm a wannabe at times). It's a definite strength when it comes to understanding the landscape we face. But I'd suggest that it's not about winning a case in a courtroom, it's about winning a case in the court of public opinion.....which can be a very powerful venue itself. Let's play in the same "court" that Roger plays in, simply to make his life miserable....and not necessarily to achieve some "ruling". I realize the naysayers will reply: "but no other fan bases will join us in this court of public opinion." But I'd counter with the fan bases of St Louis, San Diego, and Oakland (as a start). And then I'd point out that some other fan base could be the next to get thrown under the bus, if necessary to offset Roger's ineptitude.

Turnabout is fair play....
Let us know how that works out for you, OK?
 
they erroneously thought they had a facts based case until they were forced to discover the IGL.
Oh really? So when that 11/12 balls lie sat out there for 4 months, that was the league office, as pure as the wind driven snow, making an honest mistake? And when the Wells Report was obliterated by junior high schoolers all across New England BEFORE they announced the punishment of Brady and the Patriots, they were just acting in good faith?

Join us in the real world. This has been a league vendetta against Brady and the Patriots since day 1. To suggest that they go through all this trouble, win on appeal then let the whole thing drop without punishment is idiotic.
 
I'd be interested if a lawyer familiar with Massachusetts consumer law could enlighten us on what it takes to have standing to file a suit like this. Is it enough just to be a fan with a rooting interest in the team or would only the team itself actually have the standing to file such a suit as the damaged party?

Common Sense suggests that the team might have the standing to file suit. Whether it would be successful is another matter.

Thank you. I've been trying through simple questions to get some of the single sentence certainties to be elaborated on here but it is just met with more of the same.
 
Now strain your Samuel Adam's pickled brain and try to figure out why the desert dwellers from N. Africa and the Middle East are so determined to settle in Siberia West.

"""“Someone told me Sweden is good. They help for school, and help two years,” said Yemenyjan in somewhat stilted English. Two years refers to the time period for cash assistance to asylees. During that time, Yemenyjan will receive close to $54,000 to support himself, his wife, and two daughters. By comparison, if he and his family went to the US as refugees, they'd get a one-time payment of about $4,000. (There are other forms of non-cash assistance in both countries as well.)"""""""

Swedes ask: Can we take in more migrants and maintain our generous social benefits?

Now go ask the Swedes how they feel about financially supporting the waves of immigrants . Great place. A Mass. libby will fit right in....cashing entitlement checks just like back home

No..THAT is not to YOUR point that everyone in Sweden is looking to LEAVE. You KNOW what you said, you used your Bulgarian HVAC guy as your source., It was an idiotic, unfounded thing to print so you switch up with this garbage. Just take your kicked ass and go sit in the fackin' corner.
 
Simple. That's not a legal argument. Cite a case. Opinion doesn't win a court of law.

Actually, it IS a legal argument based on the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act. And, I don't know where you've been, but opinion has won in the court of law for ages. Because it's the opinion of the Judge or the jury on many judgements.
 
Actually, it IS a legal argument based on the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act. And, I don't know where you've been, but opinion has won in the court of law for ages. Because it's the opinion of the Judge or the jury on many judgements.
You are not a lawyer. Just are just trying to play one. You are wrong. This does not apply under the MCPA.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
 
I think Kraft does care about the fans, but he cares more about his place among the 32 owners. He told us that in his own words when he stopped asking for an apology and capitulated on the loss of the draft picks. He also said that the fans would be upset and he was right, at least in my case.

But that isn't my main issue in all of this. I still support Kraft. However, the actions by Fraudger and his band of Jets has been an attack on the Pats from the beginning. The fact that other fans are either unwilling or unable to see that also isn't an issue. If the administrators of the league want to dictate what happens on the field then it isn't a sport anymore.
 
Oh really? So when that 11/12 balls lie sat out there for 4 months, that was the league office, as pure as the wind driven snow, making an honest mistake? And when the Wells Report was obliterated by junior high schoolers all across New England BEFORE they announced the punishment of Brady and the Patriots, they were just acting in good faith?

Join us in the real world. This has been a league vendetta against Brady and the Patriots since day 1. To suggest that they go through all this trouble, win on appeal then let the whole thing drop without punishment is idiotic.

"Join us in the real world?" Really?

I really don't know who the hell you think you're talking to.

I'm the guy who stood outside the SDNY Courthouse for four hours so I could be five feet from Brady when he left the hearing last August and, according to several posters on this board, can be heard shouting on national TV: "We love you Tommy, one more for the thumb Tommy."

I was also one of the many booing Goodell to his face. So, back the **** off.

You're doing a lot of talking since joining the board a year ago. I've walked the walk in this matter, on this Board and in support of the Pats for many, many years.

Let's just review your points in this and another thread one last time, as you clearly haven't been listening to what I've been saying. It's a little nuanced, so hang on:

Clearly, the Pash Report erroneously failed to take into account the IGL. Dumb. Dumber than dumb.

There was nothing "honest" about what the League did; they (probably Kensil) leaked the original numbers to Mort and thought they had Brady until the facts got in the way. At that point, 345 was stuck with a bad narrative, for which it would end up paying $5 million, and 31 jealous owners still calling for Brady's and the Patriots blood.

But, none of that really matters when it comes to how the Second Circuit will look at this.

After reading your posts, I thought I must have made a mistake, so, I went back to Berman's ruling.

Once again, I found the same three grounds for his decision:
A) Inadequate notice to Brady. It doesn't matter what Brady might or not have done. He wasn't given notice either of the consequences or even that these particular, "alleged" misdeeds fell under a standard that would give rise to a four game suspension. (It's important to note that even the Johnson's response to the Clement/Murphy brief mentions that he should only have received a fine for the misdeeds with which he was charged.) It's difficult but not impossible to imagine that this finding will be overturned other than by knee-jerk, pro management judges.

B) Denial of access under oath to Pash, who clearly re-wrote the Wells report to the League's specifications. This is a big one. None of us have any idea what was in the original report and to what degree the league influenced the final version before making final payment. Something else that it is difficult but not impossible to imagine being overturned other than as described above.

C) Denial of access to witness interview notes and other relevant materials. Important, yes, but icing on the cake of A) and B).

Everything else is in support of those findings.

It's nice that the "facts" ended up being helpful to Brady. Goodell, Pash and Nash pissed Berman off and Berman chose to bring them into the discussion. But Berman did not have to do so and, if you read Clement's Brief, they won't be before the Second Circuit Panel. The brief is very well crafted and puts the "facts" to the side; if the NFL gets the right two judges, the outcome will be hotly contested.

If you read Johnson's response to Clement, he bases his argument on two things:

One, violations of the CBA based on notice and specified punishments, including that the CBA specifies a "fine for first time football tampering."
Two, that the proceedings were unfair because of the lack of access to Pash under oath and the lack of access to other investigative findings. He concludes by asking that the proceedings be remanded to Berman should the vacatur be overturned.

We got lucky with Berman, an old line, pro labor, liberal judge put forth by Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Hopefully, we'll get lucky again in a Court made up mainly of Judges from New York and Connecticut, but it's a roll of the dice.

Clearly the NFL is trying to turn this into a landmark Management v. Labor Case and is throwing a Hail Mary that it will get two friendly judges with a heavy bias towards Management.

That's why they rushed to file in the SDNY in the first place...there is a preponderance of "corporate" judges. They aren't all like Berman and Miriam Cederbaum, who died last week. Even Judge Preska took the very unusual step of giving an interview about Judge Berman to the AP beat reporter covering the SDNY and warned the NFL what it was in for, but they were too arrogant to take the hint.

As for my comments on the profile that the NFLPA should have in this matter, I think that the Union has almost certainly been advised by its Appellate counsel not to risk doing anything that might make the Appeals Judges feel that they are being pressured. As I said before, Appellate Judges are a law unto themselves, do not take kindly to anyone trying to influence them from outside, other than in an Amicus brief, and answer only to the Supreme Court. The Union should let it's Appellate Lawyer do all the talking.

If you respond to this, you will have the last word, as I am done with this conversation.
 
You are not a lawyer. Just are just trying to play one. You are wrong. This does not apply under the MCPA.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

How do you know it doesn't apply under the MCPA?? Cause you say so?? Please..
 
"Join us in the real world?" Really?

I really don't know who the hell you think you're talking to.
ROFLOLOLOLOL!!!! There are few things more pathetic than when someone plays the "who do you think you're talking to? Do you know who I am??!?" card.

I don't give a **** how long you stood outside the courthouse. We are not taking about the law anymore, we are talking about the actions and motives of the NFL office.

Anyone who thinks the league is going to go through all this trouble and would voluntarily lower the suspension if they won their appeal is a total and complete moron.

This is a league vendetta against Tom Brady. I don't think they'll win on appeal, but if they do (and if Brady's subsequent appeal is denied), they will force Brady to serve the full suspension. They aren't going to magnanimously say "ok we won, so now we will be reasonable."

So why don't you do us all a favor and join us in the real world?
 
ROFLOLOLOLOL!!!! There are few things more pathetic than when someone plays the "who do you think you're talking to? Do you know who I am??!?" card.

I don't give a **** how long you stood outside the courthouse. We are not taking about the law anymore, we are talking about the actions and motives of the NFL office.

Anyone who thinks the league is going to go through all this trouble and would voluntarily lower the suspension if they won their appeal is a total and complete moron.

This is a league vendetta against Tom Brady. I don't think they'll win on appeal, but if they do (and if Brady's subsequent appeal is denied), they will force Brady to serve the full suspension. They aren't going to magnanimously say "ok we won, so now we will be reasonable."

So why don't you do us all a favor and join us in the real world?
I'll take the bait one more time.

I never said it wasn't a vendetta against the Patriots. In fact, I pretty clearly agree with that and have done so since 2007...eight years before you joined the Board. Anyone with an IQ above Room Temperature on this board agrees with that.

All I said was that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes that could impact Goodell's actions vis a vis Brady in the unlikely event that the League wins on Appeal; his lack of a straight answer to that question in his SB presser suggests that there could be more to this than meets the eye. Maybe there isn't. Maybe there is.
 
On the "Do your job" documentary Sky Sports did, Kraft told the interviewer they accepted punishment to help Brady and when it didn't he was not a happy man.
 
I'll take the bait one more time.

I never said it wasn't a vendetta against the Patriots. In fact, I pretty clearly agree with that and have done so since 2007...eight years before you joined the Board. Anyone with an IQ above Room Temperature on this board agrees with that.

All I said was that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes that could impact Goodell's actions vis a vis Brady in the unlikely event that the League wins on Appeal; his lack of a straight answer to that question in his SB presser suggests that there could be more to this than meets the eye. Maybe there isn't. Maybe there is.
Newsflash: Goodell's pressers are nothing BUT "lacking straight answers." Anyone who thinks that his vague answer to that question implies he will show mercy if he wins in court is a moron.

NOTE: There may indeed be negotiating taking place right now behind the scenes. There may even be some sort of deal. But one thing's that is NOT going to happen is the NFL wins in court AND voluntarily reduces the punishment.
 
Newsflash: Goodell's pressers are nothing BUT "lacking straight answers." Anyone who thinks that his vague answer to that question implies he will show mercy if he wins in court is a moron.

NOTE: There may indeed be negotiating taking place right now behind the scenes. There may even be some sort of deal. But one thing's that is NOT going to happen is the NFL wins in court AND voluntarily reduces the punishment.

I actually read Goodell's vagueness as the fact that they expect to lose and haven't decided yet whether to ask SCOTUS to hear the case next.
 
You guys are arguing a point that hinges on the NFL WINNING this appeal. They won't. Goodell is intent on taking this all the way to the top. When the league gets shut down by the appeals court,NFL offices will appeal to the next venue...which is the Supreme Court if I'm not mistaken. Goodell will revel in this chance to show the world he will go to any and all lengths to "protect the shield". It is who he is, it is his raison d'etre.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top