The 2016-2017 Offense

mgteich said:

LaFell is on the books for $2.675M of new money.

Amendola is on the books for $5.4M of new money. Everyone is suggesting a discount. I suggest $2M to $3.4M of new money

Why would I pay Amendola more, in addition to his being able to return punts.

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2016 NFL Season
Base Salary
Amendola - $5.0 million
Edelman - $2.5 million
LaFell - $2.4 million

www.patscap.com

Houston, we have a problem.

2016 NFL Draft - New England Patriots
Date 2/5/2016
2nd Round - Joshua Garnett, OG - Stanford
3rd Round - Sterling Shepard, WR - Oklahoma

you Have to get a running game it will help alot will make the offense more lethal

matt forte is my hope

plus i hope we can get a

Muhammed sanu

plus the patriots need a second tight end

mgteich said:

LaFell is on the books for $2.675M of new money.

Amendola is on the books for $5.4M of new money. Everyone is suggesting a discount. I suggest $2M to $3.4M of new money

Why would I pay Amendola more, in addition to his being able to return punts.

2015

LAFELL 74 targets, 37 receptions, 515 yards and 0 TD's

AMENDOLA 87 targets, 65 receptions, 648 yards and 3 TD's

ANALYSIS
A) The total number of targets is similar.

B) The last player who had production like Lafell (Lloyd) never played a gain.

C) I agree with your suggestion that we wait with regard to LaFell (as I suggested when we got rid of Lloyd.

D) However, I believe that Amendola's 2015 production was better than LaFell's. In the end, one isn't paid for past production. I believe that Amendola is much more important to the offense than LaFell.

E) BOTTOM LINE
I would be fine with the same receivers in 2016 as in 2015, with better health. Adding Martin was a big plus.

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The 2015 stats reflect what we saw on the field - just 50% of LaFell targets resulting in catches vs the 74.7% for Amendola. Add in DA's value in punt / kick returns and he clearly has value, but it will be interesting to see what decisions are made with these two. Based on BB's decisions with the o line coach and strength training coach, he will lean towards cutting bait rather than holding on to players giving him a poor or marginal return.
I believe o line needs upgrades in addition to a superior o line coach. I think this WR group needs someone beyond JE to go to. Given the injury history with our WR s & Gronk, we need additional help in both positions. Owen Daniels has played well for 2 teams since leaving Houston while Chandler has been invisible. I think he would have been worth signing. I also didn't understand why we dropped our persuit of Sanders after having tried to get him when he was on the Steelers. His speed would stretch the field for us, but we went with Jo Jo & now we're discussing if he's worth even bringing to camp.

AzPatsFan said:

Guards are not drafted in the First Round. Using a 4th for a Guard IS a premium pick for that position. Over the past decade and a half the average draft position for a Patriot's Guard is an UDFA.

Mason is a superior pulling Guard. Period.

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Guards absolutely are drafted in the first round.
If you think anything Mason did this year was superior, we just should choose to not discuss football with each other.

ATippett56 said:

2016 NFL Season
Base Salary
Amendola - $5.0 million
Edelman - $2.5 million
LaFell - $2.4 million

www.patscap.com

Houston, we have a problem.

2016 NFL Draft - New England Patriots
Date 2/5/2016
2nd Round - Joshua Garnett, OG - Stanford
3rd Round - Sterling Shepard, WR - Oklahoma

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If you think that the answer is a 3rd rounder rookie, IMHO, it is you that has the problem.

PatsfanCP said:

you Have to get a running game it will help alot will make the offense more lethal

matt forte is my hope

plus i hope we can get a

Muhammed sanu

plus the patriots need a second tight end

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Good post, and I agree Forte and Sanu would equal one hell of an offseason.

Snake Eyes said:

Some Guards certainly are drafted in the 1st round, it all depends on how much you value elite talent at that position.

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Hawg Hannahs don't come along very often.

AzPatsFan said:

Hawg Hannahs don't come along very often.

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Of course not, but Mike Iupati was a first round pick and he's a beast, Dave DeCastro as well. The Cowboys selected Zach Martin in the 1st and he's absolutely filthy.

Yet again, it's all about how much value you place on the position. I happen to place a LOT of value on the interior O-line because we have the GOAT who is athletically limited and needs the ability to move forward in the pocket to avoid outside pressure.

captain stone said:

I would not be upset if our first 5 picks are LT, WR, LT/LG, WR, Move TE.

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I certainly would be upset. The only skill position where rookies can play is RB. We don't have any except for a busted knee Lewis, who probably won't regain his elusiveness until 2017, if ever.

We could use another OT, but I doubt we have the draft resources to get one better than our current reserves, or starters at tackle. As for the pipe dream of a genuine producing rookie WR , dream on. That is where we sign a mid-level vet, like Amendola or LaFell. Receivers whose rookie and sophmore mistakes occured elsewhere.

I'd like to see a replication of a draft of a few years ago, using the second for an elusive pass catching RB, and a third for a Ridley-like big RB. Thanks to Commissioner Sheiskopf, that is all the draft resources we have this year. Fortunately it is probably all we need, as the D is loaded; and the Offense merely needs some experience and health in the line; and a few RBs, and WR depth, given that the QB is Tom Brady, still the GOAT.

Some Pats fans are surprised that playing the equivalent of an expansion O-line, with three rookies and a couple of sophs, without a big experienced LOT, the Offensive line was not superb. It was not surprising to me.

It was so poor that it only good enough to get to the 5th straight AFCCG! The present contingent will be much better next season, no matter who coaches them... I welcome Scar back, but I don't really think Goog did a bad job, with the cards handed him. He had to try to make up for inexperience with little or no continuity due to injuries; He couldn't do it.

Snake Eyes said:

Of course not, but Mike Iupati was a first round pick and he's a beast, Dave DeCastro as well. The Cowboys selected Zach Martin in the 1st and he's absolutely filthy.

Yet again, it's all about how much value you place on the position. I happen to place a LOT of value on the interior O-line because we have the GOAT who is athletically limited and needs the ability to move forward in the pocket to avoid outside pressure.

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We have not had a draft pick high enough to acquire any of them. Dream on! Iupati is good, but is on his second team, and was blamed for the Cards destruction by Carolina.

cupofjoe1962 said:

The two area's of need on this team is OL & WR.

Edelman is primarily a slot receiver & he is a great player who hits 30 this year. Hopefully we can get another couple of healthy years out of him at the top of his game.

I really don't understand the love for Amendola. He has 13 career touchdowns in 7 seasons (less than 2 per season). He also cannot be be counted onto stay healthy. He is injury prone. That being said... I wouldn't mind him as a part time player at a low salary.

LaFell..... He needs to take a pay cut just to get to camp.

Martin.... Not a bad 4th or 5th WR & his salary is not breaking the bank.

We need two new starting receivers who can separate from the defenders in man to man coverage &
Take the pressure off Gronk & Edelman.

Adding at least 1 starting quality WR who can separate is a must.

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When you don't have any RBs, your desire for a better WR rings hollow. The young Offensive linemen WILL get better. How much is the only question. After all they were only good enough to get to the AFCCG.

Everyone would love to get a young Randy Moss but there is no draft pick to get him, even if he were in the draft. Teams with great WRs have CAP problems and seldom go far in the Playoffs. RBs only have so many carries in them. Signing a older vet there is just plain stupid, especially if he has had much hard use, like a Forte.

AzPatsFan said:

We have not had a draft pick high enough to acquire any of them. Dream on! Iupati is good, but is on his second team, and was blamed for the Cards destruction by Carolina.

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No reason we couldn't have traded up, it's all about how much they value elite talent at the position.

We could have grabbed Joel Bitonio instead of Dominique Easly, other great lineman have gone in rounds 2-3, they're there if you want them.

AzPatsFan said:

When you don't have any RBs, your desire for a better WR rings hollow. The young Offensive linemen WILL get better. How much is the only question. After all they were only good enough to get to the AFCCG.

Everyone would love to get a young Randy Moss but there is no draft pick to get him, even if he were in the draft. Teams with great WRs have CAP problems and seldom go far in the Playoffs. RBs only have so many carries in them. Signing a older vet there is just plain stupid, especially if he has had much hard use, like a Forte.

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Let me guess.... You are excited about Iosefa and you think Develin return will make an impact.

I bet you wanted us to pay Vince last year too.

I would love to add Forte to a team friendly deal & I also think we should upgrade from Amendola & LaFell. Forte & the return of Lewis will help both the running & passing game.

Hopefully Scar will return & the OL can only get better.

I don't understand the love for Amendola. In 7 seasons he has 13 total touchdowns. If he takes a major pay cut, maybe keep him as a 4th or 5th receiver.

AndyJohnson said:

Anyone who says he played well against Denver had to be watching a different game.

He most certainly was a big part of the problem. Now that may not be his fault because he really should not have been on the field much at all this year.
He certainly could become part of the solution, but he will need to improve a great deal. He could do that, but I'm hoping BB doesn't count on that and risk the 2016 playoffs on that too.

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Andy you are usually quite sound in your opinions, unlike e.g. Stone who wanders off into "Cut him now!" hysteria. And then raves about some unknown 7th round draft pick or UDFA, who will instantly be an AllPro.

But your wishes don't reflect reality any more, with regard to the Offense, and the line in particular. BB knows that You fix what you can and make do. The Pats have no, nada, none, RBs. But you can draft a couple, and actually expect them to play and contribute as rookies.

Wanting a better WR is nice, but rookies DO NOT play at that position. Meanwhile the Pats have two game breakers, and two more pretty good/above average ones at receiver. They will just have to muddle through, and maybe pick up a little depth, and hope a youngster starts to develop.

I would love to have the next Hawg Hannah, but there are simply no resources to get him, now.

AzPatsFan said:

Andy you are usually quite sound in your opinions, unlike e.g. Stone who wanders off into "Cut him now!" hysteria. And then raves about some unknown 7th round draft pick or UDFA, who will instantly be an AllPro.

But your wishes don't reflect reality any more, with regard to the Offense, and the line in particular. BB knows that You fix what you can and make do. The Pats have no, nada, none, RBs. But you can draft a couple, and actually expect them to play and contribute as rookies.

Wanting a better WR is nice, but rookies DO NOT play at that position. Meanwhile the Pats have two game breakers, and two more pretty good/above average ones at receiver. They will just have to muddle through, and maybe pick up a little depth, and hope a youngster starts to develop.

I would love to have the next Hawg Hannah, but there are simply no resources to get him, now.

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So your answer is fix nothing?
We don't have a draft? We can't sign free agents?



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Marvin Jones would be electric in this offense as would Travis Benjamin.
Ive heard rumors of Harvin but do we really want a malcontent with nagging injury issues?
Hard pass

ChrisR2223 said:

Marvin Jones would be electric in this offense as would Travis Benjamin.
Ive heard rumors of Harvin but do we really want a malcontent with nagging injury issues?
Hard pass

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yes to harvin.

better than wasting a pick on some scrub WR from college that will be a BUST.

I think on Offense, our needs are: (in no particular order)

- rb
-interior lineman
-wr
-te

With our first pick in the second round, i would be happy with any of the above positions. Please no safeties though!!!!!

AzPatsFan said:

...The only skill position where rookies can play is RB. We don't have any except for a busted knee Lewis, who probably won't regain his elusiveness until 2017, if ever.

We could use another OT, but I doubt we have the draft resources to get one better than our current reserves, or starters at tackle. As for the pipe dream of a genuine producing rookie WR , dream on. That is where we sign a mid-level vet, like Amendola or LaFell. Receivers whose rookie and sophmore mistakes occured elsewhere.

I'd like to see a replication of a draft of a few years ago, using the second for an elusive pass catching RB, and a third for a Ridley-like big RB. Thanks to Commissioner Sheiskopf, that is all the draft resources we have this year. Fortunately it is probably all we need, as the D is loaded; and the Offense merely needs some experience and health in the line; and a few RBs, and WR depth, given that the QB is Tom Brady, still the GOAT...

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If there is available a RB whose value matches or exceeds our current draft position, then I would not be opposed to his selection, provided that first our needs at OL & WR are addressed.

AzPatsFan said:

We have not had a draft pick high enough to acquire any of them. Dream on! Iupati is good, but is on his second team, and was blamed for the Cards destruction by Carolina.

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DeCastro was available.
I would've drafted him, then used the second 1st-rounder on Chandler Jones, then used our 2nd-rounder
on Lavonte David instead of Tavon F Wilson.
Then again, Bill also could've drafted Joel Bitonio instead of Dom Easily(Injured).