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Potential Patriots: RB Matt Forte (UFA)


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Christine Mitchell sucks and most of the RBs not named Gurley in last year's draft class also sucked. I'll take a Veteran back who can get it done without question over a draft pick.

Have you seen Michael play in college and/or the pros? Or are you just going by game logs and transaction logs? Take a look at his NFL and college highlights. Might make you rethink that statement.

As for the draft, i disagree. Yeldon came in and played pretty well. Tevin Coleman came in and looked very good before breaking a rib. David Johnson looked great for Arizona. Karlos Williams looked pretty good too. Guys like Payne and Josh Robinson have some potential but were behind veterans all year.


Guys like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy hill, Christine Michael, demarco Murray, Eddie Lacy, Leveon Bell, etc can all be found in the middle rounds and be early contributors to build around.

I'm not opposed to a guy with a few years in the league in their mid 20s, like when Atlanta got Michael Turner. but I'm against trying to siphon the last droplets of production out of old running backs. It's typically not a successful venture.
 
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Id sign Forte in a heartbeat (if the price is right) Not only can he run the ball, but hes excellent as a receiver. As great and exciting of a player Dion Lewis is, his body just not made to last a full season. Forte would be the same duel threat.

I also feel this draft is loaded at RB. Id love to pickup Jonathan Williams, whos an excellent power runner, in the midrounds. Groom him behind Forte for a year or 2.

This team needs to establish a running game. I think the issues with the interior OL were injuries and rookies hitting the wall. We're seeing a washed up Peyton Manning about to play in the SB becausr of an offense thats committed to running the ball, and an aggressive defense. Now gove Brady that option, imagine how good this team would be?
 
Have you seen Michael play in college and/or the pros? Or are you just going by game logs and transaction logs? Take a look at his NFL and college highlights. Might make you rethink that statement.

As for the draft, i disagree. Yeldon came in and played pretty well. Tevin Coleman came in and looked very good before breaking a rib. David Johnson looked great for Arizona. Karlos Williams looked pretty good too. Guys like Payne and Josh Robinson have some potential but were behind veterans all year.


Guys like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy hill, Christine Michael, demarco Murray, Eddie Lacy, Leveon Bell, etc can all be found in the middle rounds and be early contributors to build around.

I'm not opposed to a guy with a few years in the league in their mid 20s, like when Atlanta got Michael Turner. but I'm against trying to siphon the last droplets of production out of old running backs. It's typically not a successful venture.

Christine Michael does suck. This year alone he's bounced around between Seattle, Dallas, Washington, and back to Seattle.

He's done nothing in the pros
 
James White was the only silver lining on offense down the stretch of the season and everyone around here is anxious to get rid of him? Yep, it must be the offseason.
While I'm not sure about "the only silver lining", I agree with you that he was a significant contributor. I thought he played pretty well.
 
Why wouldn't you want Forte on the Pats? There are injury and age concerns but Forte doesn't look battered and beaten yet, other than having to play for the Bears of course,which is enough to de-motivate any player. Strong runner, excellent receiver, good blocker.
 
Have you seen Michael play in college and/or the pros? Or are you just going by game logs and transaction logs? Take a look at his NFL and college highlights. Might make you rethink that statement.

As for the draft, i disagree. Yeldon came in and played pretty well. Tevin Coleman came in and looked very good before breaking a rib. David Johnson looked great for Arizona. Karlos Williams looked pretty good too. Guys like Payne and Josh Robinson have some potential but were behind veterans all year.


Guys like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy hill, Christine Michael, demarco Murray, Eddie Lacy, Leveon Bell, etc can all be found in the middle rounds and be early contributors to build around.

I'm not opposed to a guy with a few years in the league in their mid 20s, like when Atlanta got Michael Turner. but I'm against trying to siphon the last droplets of production out of old running backs. It's typically not a successful venture.


I have seen plenty of Michaels and he sucks, what he did in college is irrelevant. And out of the rookie class the only one I was impressed with other than Gurley was David Johnson, even highly drafted guys like Melvin Gordon and Tevin Coleman sucked. I want a proven NFL back who can get them tough yards against Good defenses and catch the ball, out of the backfield. The Patriots brought in Corey Dillon at 30 and it paid off big time, Forte is an excellent back with plenty left for the right team and imo that's the Patriots. For me the RB position is the key to this offseason, they have the money and a glaring need and I don't want a JAG or a crapshoot on a mid round rookie. Forte, Miller, Martin, or Ivory would sell be substantial upgrades but imo Forte is the one who will be the best bet for the money. If they don't substantially upgrade at 1st down back then it the OL has no hope of playing better because you can't be that one dimensional all the time and not expect defenses to figure it out and stop it.
 
Forte is in a similar position that Frank Gore was in last year when he was a free agent. Here are the comparables of their career stats between the two when both became free agents, Forte this season, Gore last season

Games: Forte: 120 Gore: 148
Age: Forte: 30 yrs/2 mths Gore: 31 yrs/ 10 mths
Season: Forte: 8 Gore: 10
Attempts: Forte: 2035 Gore: 2442
Rushing yards: Forte: 8602 Gore: 11073
YPC: Forte: 4.2 Gore: 4.5
Rushing TDs: Forte: 45 Gore: 64
Receptions: Forte: 487 Gore: 342
Receiving yards: Forte: 4116 Gore: 2883
Receiving TDs: Forte: 19 Gore: 11
Pro Bowls: Forte: 2 Gore: 5

Gore got a 3 yr/12 million contract from the Colts. If you can get Forte for the same deal, I think its worth it. Maybe start off with a 3/10 deal with incentives. Site the difference in pro bowls as the difference between the two. Forte has been consistant, all the while being on a bad Bears team, more so as of late. He is a 3 down back, although I don't want to see Lewis lose any snaps. But last year if Blount was in the backfield opposing teams could basically write him off as a passing option. Plus, he holds onto the ball. 20 career fumbles with 2522 career touches (including receptions). Pats don't need a stud at RB. but a dependable dual threat veteran is just what they need. plus a improvement in the oline run blocking.
 
Christine Michael does suck. This year alone he's bounced around between Seattle, Dallas, Washington, and back to Seattle.

He's done nothing in the pros

I have seen plenty of Michaels and he sucks, what he did in college is irrelevant. And out of the rookie class the only one I was impressed with other than Gurley was David Johnson, even highly drafted guys like Melvin Gordon and Tevin Coleman sucked. I want a proven NFL back who can get them tough yards against Good defenses and catch the ball, out of the backfield. The Patriots brought in Corey Dillon at 30 and it paid off big time, Forte is an excellent back with plenty left for the right team and imo that's the Patriots. For me the RB position is the key to this offseason, they have the money and a glaring need and I don't want a JAG or a crapshoot on a mid round rookie. Forte, Miller, Martin, or Ivory would sell be substantial upgrades but imo Forte is the one who will be the best bet for the money. If they don't substantially upgrade at 1st down back then it the OL has no hope of playing better because you can't be that one dimensional all the time and not expect defenses to figure it out and stop it.

You're very quick to throw the "sucks" tag on players. I wonder how you felt about Hightower early in his career here before he blossomed.

I disagree with your assessments on Michael and Coleman. I Didn't see any of Gordon as he is on West coast.

I don't think a veteran running back is as key as you suggest. A running back is only going to be as good as his offensive line. The Pats' offensive line is too finesse these days. Their mindset is not to come out and physically dominate teams, blowing people off the ball. They don't have anyone on that line, IMO, that is in the Logan Mankins type of mold. They want more athletic guys who are better pass protectors because Brady is in the shotgun a majority of the time. That's why they've got former TE's Solder and Vollmer.

So improving the running game in my estimation is more about teaching, coaching, and promoting a more physical mindset on offense. I think you also have to look at getting more physically dominating guards and centers rather than focusing on the finesse types.


To me, the patriots have essentially become what the Colts were on offense with Manning. Heavily reliant on the pass, finesse offensive line, great home team, struggle to beat good teams with good defenses on the road. I hate it. They are no longer a physical offense.

An upgrade at RB would be nice, no doubt. But some of the names you're throwing out there? I am not as high on those guys as you are.

Matt Forte has looked like a shell of himself when I've seen him play. Maybe he was just nicked up. But 30 year old running backs don't get better, they get worse and eventually fall off a cliff.

Chris Ivory? I'd rather have Brandon Bolden. Chris Ivory usually has one big 35 yard rush per game and the rest of his carries all go for 2 or 3 yards. He's physical but he has terrible vision. He's the definition of a JAG.

Lamar Miller? He's the guy who's going to get you the tough yards between the tackles against physical defenses? I don't see him as that type of player. More like a change of pace big play threat.

I have zero interest in Doug Martin. Good rookie year, disappears for two years, has a good contract year. Already 27 years old. No thanks. Feels like the type of guy you go out and give a big deal and you immediately regret it.

If that's the best that's out there in FA, I'd honestly rather just stick with Bolden and White. Bring in a mid to late round RB in the draft. Chase a guard or a center in free agency if there's a good fit. I'd rather go after a guy like Mike Iupati (free agent last year) or Alex Mack if he opts out for $7-$8 million a year than give one of these overrated RB's $4-5 million per year.

A physical guard or center would upgrade our running game more than signing a RB would.
 
I'm on board with the Forte idea of he's really going to take less money.
 
You're very quick to throw the "sucks" tag on players. I wonder how you felt about Hightower early in his career here before he blossomed.

I disagree with your assessments on Michael and Coleman. I Didn't see any of Gordon as he is on West coast.

I don't think a veteran running back is as key as you suggest. A running back is only going to be as good as his offensive line. The Pats' offensive line is too finesse these days. Their mindset is not to come out and physically dominate teams, blowing people off the ball. They don't have anyone on that line, IMO, that is in the Logan Mankins type of mold. They want more athletic guys who are better pass protectors because Brady is in the shotgun a majority of the time. That's why they've got former TE's Solder and Vollmer.

So improving the running game in my estimation is more about teaching, coaching, and promoting a more physical mindset on offense. I think you also have to look at getting more physically dominating guards and centers rather than focusing on the finesse types.


To me, the patriots have essentially become what the Colts were on offense with Manning. Heavily reliant on the pass, finesse offensive line, great home team, struggle to beat good teams with good defenses on the road. I hate it. They are no longer a physical offense.

An upgrade at RB would be nice, no doubt. But some of the names you're throwing out there? I am not as high on those guys as you are.

Matt Forte has looked like a shell of himself when I've seen him play. Maybe he was just nicked up. But 30 year old running backs don't get better, they get worse and eventually fall off a cliff.

Chris Ivory? I'd rather have Brandon Bolden. Chris Ivory usually has one big 35 yard rush per game and the rest of his carries all go for 2 or 3 yards. He's physical but he has terrible vision. He's the definition of a JAG.

Lamar Miller? He's the guy who's going to get you the tough yards between the tackles against physical defenses? I don't see him as that type of player. More like a change of pace big play threat.

I have zero interest in Doug Martin. Good rookie year, disappears for two years, has a good contract year. Already 27 years old. No thanks. Feels like the type of guy you go out and give a big deal and you immediately regret it.

If that's the best that's out there in FA, I'd honestly rather just stick with Bolden and White. Bring in a mid to late round RB in the draft. Chase a guard or a center in free agency if there's a good fit. I'd rather go after a guy like Mike Iupati (free agent last year) or Alex Mack if he opts out for $7-$8 million a year than give one of these overrated RB's $4-5 million per year.

A physical guard or center would upgrade our running game more than signing a RB would.


Couldn't disagree more, and when it comes to, letting players develop I stay with them much longer than the vast majority of people, too long in to many cases, but I also know rookie running backs are a total crapshoot and that Christine Michaels in not in any way shape or form the answer and would never bet my season on him which is what you apparently willing to do. Pimping. Christine Michaels while acting like Forte is a JAG just makes you look ignorant. As for run blocking OL Shaq Mason is as good a prospect as you will find and I wouldn't pay 50 million dollars for Osemele.

You want a JAG then good for you, I don't want a repeat of the second half of this year when Brady got killed because he was throwing every down and replacing the interior OL with pricey free agents isn't going to happen. Getting a proven back is the answer and they are there to be had.

And if you think Brandon Bolden is better than Chris Ivory you really don't watch football.
 
I'm all on board with Forte if he signs for cheap, like less than $3m per year, on a 2 or maybe 3 year deal... I like the guy a lot but am hesitant to overcommit resources to a 30 year old at that position.
 
Forte is in a similar position that Frank Gore was in last year when he was a free agent. Here are the comparables of their career stats between the two when both became free agents, Forte this season, Gore last season

Games: Forte: 120 Gore: 148
Age: Forte: 30 yrs/2 mths Gore: 31 yrs/ 10 mths
Season: Forte: 8 Gore: 10
Attempts: Forte: 2035 Gore: 2442
Rushing yards: Forte: 8602 Gore: 11073
YPC: Forte: 4.2 Gore: 4.5
Rushing TDs: Forte: 45 Gore: 64
Receptions: Forte: 487 Gore: 342
Receiving yards: Forte: 4116 Gore: 2883
Receiving TDs: Forte: 19 Gore: 11
Pro Bowls: Forte: 2 Gore: 5

Gore got a 3 yr/12 million contract from the Colts. If you can get Forte for the same deal, I think its worth it. Maybe start off with a 3/10 deal with incentives. Site the difference in pro bowls as the difference between the two. Forte has been consistant, all the while being on a bad Bears team, more so as of late. .

Forte has not had as good of a career as Gore and is coming off a year not as good as Gore's 2014. In theory (depending on how the market goes) he should not get more than $3m/per. He'll "only" get 25-35 snaps here so paying market value does not make sense to the FO here.

He is a 3 down back, although I don't want to see Lewis lose any snaps. But last year if Blount was in the backfield opposing teams could basically write him off as a passing option. Plus, he holds onto the ball. 20 career fumbles with 2522 career touches (including receptions). Pats don't need a stud at RB. but a dependable dual threat veteran is just what they need. plus a improvement in the oline run blocking.

It is very possible that Lewis will see less time next year as he is coming off of knee surgery and historically not very durable.
 
Personally, I'd rather pluck a guy from the draft. You've got all around guys like Ezekiel Elliot. You've got physical between the tackles runners like Tra Carson and Jordan Howard. You've got your shifty explosive little third down backs like Aaron Green and DeAndre Washington who can catch the ball. All with younger fresher legs and bodies.

The Patriots aren't drafting until the bottom of round 2, so you can start by crossing Elliot off your list. Also, the "30" thing wasn't an issue with (just staying with the Patriots) Kevin Faulk or Sammy Morris, and Fred Taylor was strong into year 31 before once again becoming Fragile Fred starting at age 32.
 
I'm all on board with Forte if he signs for cheap, like less than $3m per year, on a 2 or maybe 3 year deal... I like the guy a lot but am hesitant to overcommit resources to a 30 year old at that position.


Once again, Corey Dillon was 30 when they got him and it was a great move. Forte will get 5-6 million a season and is well worth it. If they do nothing else this off-season getting a back who can get 1,200 plus yards and catch the ball out of the backfield is the one move that can dramatically improve them. It's worth the investment and they can readily move on two years from now with little repercussion if they wish.
 
Forte has not had as good of a career as Gore and is coming off a year not as good as Gore's 2014. In theory (depending on how the market goes) he should not get more than $3m/per. He'll "only" get 25-35 snaps here so paying market value does not make sense to the FO here.



It is very possible that Lewis will see less time next year as he is coming off of knee surgery and historically not very durable.


Gore was almost 2 years older than Forte and it was obvious. Gore was also never the receiving back Forte outs. The Gore analogy is a poor one imo.
 
Ok. I think everyone that is a Patriots fan, know we need to IMPROVE on the OL talent and schemes.
This will help in 3 folds:

- Keep the opponent honest (against the run)
- Keep Tom Brady from getting hurt (protect as well as reduce the # of throws)
- Take time off clock

Having a very good RB who can catch AND RUN is just 1/2 the battle. We need better OL talent to open up space for the RB AND schemes (Daniels and OL coach).

That said. Matt Forte would be a cheap pickup as he said he wants to win and $$ is no longer as important.

Now, we need to get at least 1-2 pro-caliber lineman (RT, OG). Andre Smith should be a good RT replacement. Vollmer is getting to worn-down (hurt) and Andre is an upgrade and 1yr younger. Cut Cannon & Fleming. 3rd-tier cannot hold against a 1st-tier DL of the opponent.

Here are some ideas from an article:

Beantown Beat - New England Patriots Free Agency Wish List: Matt Forte, Alshon Jeffrey, O-line Help, Sean Smith

:rolleyes:
 
FTR- if they see a back they like in the draft I'm all for talking them but I would still fill the need properly in free agency and not hope the right back falls to them. A good young back to develop behind Forte, Ivory, Miller etc....would be a great approach.
 
Once again, Corey Dillon was 30 when they got him and it was a great move. Forte will get 5-6 million a season and is well worth it. If they do nothing else this off-season getting a back who can get 1,200 plus yards and catch the ball out of the backfield is the one move that can dramatically improve them. It's worth the investment and they can readily move on two years from now with little repercussion if they wish.

Ivory would be great (rub on Jets, too). But, I think he will cost more than Forte.
 
I'm all on board with Forte if he signs for cheap, like less than $3m per year, on a 2 or maybe 3 year deal... I like the guy a lot but am hesitant to overcommit resources to a 30 year old at that position.

The pats may have the upper hand in negotiating with him since he's already said he wants to play for a contender
 
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