OT: Joe Montana's health

Boomer B said:

It's a lot different now. When I was in high school about 25 yrs ago I remember in a game I was playing LB and after a tackle the LB next to me came up and was staggering around all dazed. Clearly had a concussion. Of course we had no clue how bad concussions are and we were joking after "see Leo out there, he didn't even know his name". Scary stuff looking back on it. In gym class our football coach had guys line up a few yards away from each, 1 on 1 no pads or anything, and just smoke each other. Whoever got moved back lost. Some huge blows happened. I don't think anything like that would be allowed now.

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Heh, some of those junior high/high school football drills 30-40 years ago were just brutal and coaches didn't know any better. I remember one "gauntlet"-like drill where there were six guys lined up single file about 10 yards apart. The seventh guy was supposed to carry the ball through each one: get tackled head-on, get up and run, get tackled head-on again, get up and run again, etc. Then the sixth guy at the end would get the ball and be the runner while the last runner lined up as tackler No. 1. After getting tackled head-on six straight times I remember struggling to just stand up.

Once before a game we had tackling drills during warm-ups and a buddy of mine hit me so hard it shattered my facemask. Another time -- also during warm-ups before a game -- I got mildly concussed in the same drill. How stupid was that kind of stuff?

neuronet said:

Good points.

I should clarify just because I think it is getting too much press and hype right now, that doesn't mean I think it is BS. I just think we need more science. It is still very early, popularized by a couple of doctors whose names are now attached to the diagnosis. Caution is called for is all I meant. It could be as bad as they say, but without the proper baseline measures, and better idea about statistical power of these tests, we need to be careful in jumping all over it.

Just to repeat: you are right it could be as bad as they say! (After all I just wrote a diatribe about how football basically involves slamming your brain against your skull!) Just because MRI doesn't find it yet, doesn't mean it isn't real. Hell, there are things I need histology to see in my rats' brains at work, and that doesn't invalidate the science I do. But I am very suspicious when pretty much every NFL player has this disorder, and we don't have baselines from the general population.

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Good points.

I'm not a scientist, but it makes sense that science and scientists will have to follow their methods and processes and that more data are needed from many cohorts and over time before we can know the nature and extent of what's really going on.

But it certainly seems clear that "something" is going on.

It will be very interesting when a PET scan or other test can detect CTE without having to dissect the brains of the dead.

Extensive studies might well show that CTE is not only present but widespread, to varying degrees, in the general population and can explain many occurrences of aberrant behavior that have until now been ascribed erroneously to other causes, such as alcohol abuse, drug abuse, otherwise misdiagnosed "mental illness" or other things.

It could also turn out that there are other factors that drive an individual's susceptibility to the disease, such as genetic markers or elements in the environment, in addition to the frequency of head trauma.

If any of that turns out to be true, then the NFL players whose illness and deaths have made us aware of the disease will have done a service to all of humanity.

All I know is that I want to see something come out that burns the whole thing to the ground and costs the owners hundreds of millions of dollars each.

The average life span for a NFL player who played 5 or more seasons is 56.
That's hard to comprehend.

Drewwho said:

The average life span for a NFL player who played 5 or more seasons is 56.
That's hard to comprehend.

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wow

Drewwho said:

The average life span for a NFL player who played 5 or more seasons is 56. That's hard to comprehend.

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I'd like to see a link to this, which I have a very hard time believing.

Boomer B said:

It's a lot different now. When I was in high school about 25 yrs ago I remember in a game I was playing LB and after a tackle the LB next to me came up and was staggering around all dazed. Clearly had a concussion. Of course we had no clue how bad concussions are and we were joking after "see Leo out there, he didn't even know his name". Scary stuff looking back on it. In gym class our football coach had guys line up a few yards away from each, 1 on 1 no pads or anything, and just smoke each other. Whoever got moved back lost. Some huge blows happened. I don't think anything like that would be allowed now.

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In the early 80's getting fitted for a 1960's vintage helmet meant picking one out of the basket and adjusting the chin strap. haha

Tunescribe said:

I'd like to see a link to this, which I have a very hard time believing.

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He's right. Scary.

NFL players union and Harvard team up on landmark study of football injuries and illness

Unless you believe this study

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...olence_rates_could_pro_football_actually.html

Tunescribe said:

I'd like to see a link to this, which I have a very hard time believing.

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I just read that today. The article I read stated the average life span was between 53-59. Linemen being at the lower end of that scale. I'll try to find the link and post it.


EDIT: Found the link. D'Alessandro: In NFL labor war, owners want us to ignore the dangers players endure (<<< Link)

Most reputable studies now indicate the average life span of an NFL player is 53 to 59, depending on which position he plays. That’s roughly two decades shorter than the life expectancy of the average American male.

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Hael said:

This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.

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Last time I checked no one has a gun to their head forcing them to play. It's called "Freedom".

There will never be a shortage of people who are willing to risk their future for fame, fortune, and women. People will always sign up to join the Armed Forces, and they have a lot more and severe injuries, and that's without the NFL perks.

Tony2046 said:

I just read that today. The article I read stated the average life span was between 53-59. Linemen being at the lower end of that scale. I'll try to find the link and post it.


EDIT: Found the link. D'Alessandro: In NFL labor war, owners want us to ignore the dangers players endure (<<< Link)

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Interesting and disturbing, but that article is five years old.

Tunescribe said:

Interesting and disturbing, but that article is five years old.

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I don't think we will be able to see true results of any safety changes for quite awhile. The life expectancy stated in that article is based off of data which includes the 70's and 80's or a pre-concussion awareness era.

Let me tell you I was not very good. I remember the end of one particular JV game, one of my team mates wanted to know why we were shaking hands at half time.

*I* have work-related health issues, and I work in the UNIX/SAN/Networking realm.

I'm sitting on my ass most of the time, and have for the better part of 20 years (I'm 36 now).

I can't imagine how these guys even function considering the nature of their job.