Offseason talk - would you trade Chandler Jones?

Ivan said:

I think Jones is a very good player but would go much over 50 for 5 for him, if he wants 70-80 million let him walk and take the compensatory pick for him. I want this season's defense as strong as possible so I wouldn't trade him just to move up a round in the draft.

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We've already discussed this a bit so I don't want to beat a dead horse. Overall I agree with your thoughts for the most part anyway, but the debate would be whether or not we could somehow manage to move up 2 rounds in the draft, considering that we'd either recoup a low first/high second, as opposed to a very low 3rd compensatory pick.

There's also the question of whether or not he's worth the 8m dollar cap hit to the Patriots this upcoming year, so that comes into play, especially if they're considering an extension for Sheard to lessen his 7m dollar cap hit. An extension for Sheard and a trade for Jones and all of a sudden we're potentially saving 10 million dollars in precious cap space that may be allocated for other positions. I agree with you that he's worth this year's hit, but we're not sure what the bigger picture is for Belichick re: offseason moves + the future.

As to how much he's worth? My personal opinion (admittedly worthless) would be that he falls somewhere between Quinn (14.25m) and Jordan (11m), so I'm not expecting anything less than 12m dollars a year, myself.

Like I said SUP I wouldn't move him for a pick, I'm fine with getting as much as they can out of him this season and taking the pick. I disagree on replacing him with Sheard because then you are left with having to replace Sheard. I want them at full strength, I don't care about the pick at all. As for his deal I wouldn't go over 10 million a season.

Ivan said:

Like I said SUP I wouldn't move him for a pick, I'm fine with getting as much as they can out of him this season and taking the pick. I disagree on replacing him with Sheard because then you are left with having to replace Sheard. I want them at full strength, I don't care about the pick at all. As for his deal I wouldn't go over 10 million a season.

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I agree with you that having Jones makes our 2016 defense that much better. I do have some difficulty envisioning 20+ million dollars worth of cap hits to the 3 DEs this season, though.

supafly said:

And even more recently, Mark Anderson had 10 sacks as well.

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So, which is it?

Should Jones be compared to Anderson and Cain?

Or should we think that $10M won't be enough to secure his services?

mgteich said:

So, which is it?

Should Jones be compared to Anderson and Cain?

Or should we think that $10M won't be enough to secure his services?

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I don't think that Jones should necessarily be compared to the talent level of TBC or Anderson, because he's obviously got more talent and a higher ceiling, but if we're being fair--it's not out of the realm of possibility to think that another DE can produce 2/3 of what Jones has, for a much lesser cap hit. The examples of Banta-Cain and Anderson reaching double digit sack totals are to remind others that we've had much lesser players see positive results before.

As far as how much money it will take to secure his services, I think we all know that it will be higher than 10m dollars AAV. Hell, Cam Jordan just got 11m dollars per year, so I would think that is a fair starting point. Just because someone is going to see good money on the open market as a position that many teams overpay for doesn't mean that he's necessarily worth it. In my opinion, Jones is worth about the 10m dollars per year that you stated, but we have no idea as to whether or not either side will find that acceptable.

Chandler jones is a good player, but maybe its me but it seems like he gets shut down too often. Did you hear his name once in the AFCCG? maybe its me, but he seems like teams can single him up sometimes and he doesnt make an impact. Sheard seemed to have just as much impact as jones. maybe one of our picks last year pans out and we can move on.

of the big 4 defensive players we need to lock up, I would put him the last. Collins/hightower/butler are a must and I expect the team to get those done.

RIpats88 said:

Chandler jones is a good player, but maybe its me but it seems like he gets shut down too often. Did you hear his name once in the AFCCG? maybe its me, but he seems like teams can single him up sometimes and he doesnt make an impact. Sheard seemed to have just as much impact as jones. maybe one of our picks last year pans out and we can move on.

of the big 4 defensive players we need to lock up, I would put him the last. Collins/hightower/butler are a must and I expect the team to get those done.

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FWIW, Jones was battling an injury during the AFCCG. Not trying to use that as an excuse...

All in all, I think in today's NFL, having a plethora of pass rushers and a deep rotation along the defensive line is integral to establish a solid defense.

Therefore, I would be very worried if they traded Jones this offseason because there is very little proven production behind Sheard and Ninkovich on the edge.

Where are all the perennial "We need to load up to get to the SB THIS year" posters? I'm in the camp of those who rate retain Jones 3rd behind Collins & Hightower but believe we're best off making the run with him here. BB would only blow the high 2nd round pick on another useless WR or DB like Glass IR Dowling.

supafly said:

I agree with you that having Jones makes our 2016 defense that much better. I do have some difficulty envisioning 20+ million dollars worth of cap hits to the 3 DEs this season, though.

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They aren't having cap issues so I don't think it will be a problem. They can also redo deals with any or all of them them. For me it still comes down to the same thing, I want this team as strong as possible next season and I don't want them paying it forward in hopes of some future return. I see 2016 as a big season for thru team and I want them to make the most of it. Bolster the run game , add a good downfield receiver, add a move TE and bring in some veteran depth for the defense next season and they will be in great shape to add another ring.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Where are all the perennial "We need to load up to get to the SB THIS year" posters? I'm in the camp of those who rate retain Jones 3rd behind Collins & Hightower but believe we're best off making the run with him here. BB would only blow the high 2nd round pick on another useless WR or DB like Glass IR Dowling.

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Why can't BB use that pick on a player like Jones? Why does he have to get a pick at all, why can't he trade from a proven vet?

The most important question is whether the money it will cost to retain Jones could be better spent elsewhere.

supafly said:

I don't think that Jones should necessarily be compared to the talent level of TBC or Anderson, because he's obviously got more talent and a higher ceiling, but if we're being fair--it's not out of the realm of possibility to think that another DE can produce 2/3 of what Jones has, for a much lesser cap hit. The examples of Banta-Cain and Anderson reaching double digit sack totals are to remind others that we've had much lesser players see positive results before.

As far as how much money it will take to secure his services, I think we all know that it will be higher than 10m dollars AAV. Hell, Cam Jordan just got 11m dollars per year, so I would think that is a fair starting point. Just because someone is going to see good money on the open market as a position that many teams overpay for doesn't mean that he's necessarily worth it. In my opinion, Jones is worth about the 10m dollars per year that you stated, but we have no idea as to whether or not either side will find that acceptable.

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I am focusing on 2016. To me, 2017 is only relevant with regard to Jones if we are considering an extension.