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OT: Joe Montana's health


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Montana talks about half a dozen surgeries on his knee, arthritis in his elbows, knees and hands, elbow surgery and the three neck fusions he's had to date. He also said that he thinks he's going to need another neck fusion due to nerve damage, and he has nerve damage in one of his eyes as well.
 
I forget if it was before a Super Bowl or a playoff game but when he was with the 49ers, Montana was in such physically bad shape he basically spent all of week leading up to the game in traction.
 
I forget which Super Bowl it was but Montana was in such physically bad shape he basically spent all of Super Bowl week in traction.

Clearly it helped.
 
This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.
 
This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.

Was watching the 30 for 30 on the '85 Bears.

While he is doing better, the quality of life Jim McMahon really sucks.
 
This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.

Football is a violent sport. The players know this and the current crop is more aware than ever of the risks presented by a career in football. They're by no means trapped. They can retire at any time and pursue a career in another field. But I do agree with you that the NFL may be done in another couple of decades. More and more parents will prevent their child from playing it as the years go on and more information goes public. That will hurt the quality of play on the field as teams have thinner crops of talent to draft from. Hopefully Goodell goes into a severe depression when that happens and opts to drive his car off a cliff after depositing his entire checking and savings account into my checking and savings account.
 
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This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.
I think it comes down to equipment, really. What sort of equipment enhancements can be implemented that wouldn't adversely affect the quality of the game.

Somewhere between what they use now and those funny sumo wrestler suits.
 
This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.

Troy Aikman retired at 34. I think we're going to see more and more early retirements. It's not just the hits in the pros, but it's years and years of hits from youth football to high school and college as well. The movie "Concussion" has a couple of memorable scenes about that.

Bradshaw retired at 35. For years people have explained some of the mind-boggling things he comes out with on TV by saying he wasn't that smart (didn't someone once say that "Terry Bradshaw couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the 'c' and the 't'?"), but now I wonder if it isn't some form of cognitive impairment that leads to many of his non-sequiturs. He also seems to "zone out" a lot during the broadcasts.

Some stats:

The average retirement age of an SB Era HOF QB is 37.5.

Those who retired at or below the average age, i.e., at age 37 or younger, were Aikman (34), Bradshaw (35), Namath (34), Bob Griese (35), Fouts (36), J. Kelly (36), Starr (37) and Staubach (37).

The average is pulled up by Dawson, Unitas and Jurgensen, all of whom retired at 40. Warren Moon retired at 44.

Elway, Marino, Montana, Tarkenton and Young all retired at 38.

The average number of Regular Season games played by an SB Era HOF QB is 190.2; average games started is 171.8.

For reference, Tom Brady turns 39 in August and has played in 225 Regular Season games, starting 223 of them. He has also played and started in 31 Playoff Games, for total Games Played of 256 and Games Started of 254. His physical durability is remarkable. I hope and pray that he has family, close friends and doctors who are, very privately, helping him evaluate the toll the game has taken on his overall health, as none of us are in a position to do so. He has accomplished all that a player can reasonably hope to accomplish and has a lot to live for and a lot to enjoy in the decades ahead.

EDIT: When Favre (41) goes into the HOF, he'll raise the average to 37.7.
 
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There is no equipment that will make it failproof and stop all concussions/broken bones. Just like boxing, there are major risks, this is a very high contact sport and you are literally risking death every time you step on the field, even if you are just a punter. They all know this, they will all literally say "Yes" if you ask them. If you were to ask "Do you think there might be unforeseen consequences for your brain, things science doesn't yet know, given that brain science is in its infancy?" They will all also say "Yes." (Unless they are too stupid to understand the question).

The lawsuits are about as reasonable as all professional boxers getting together to sue the professional boxing associations to say they didnt' realize getting punched in the head repeatedly could cause brain damage.

Also, I'm actually suspicious of all this CTE hype. We do not yet have a very good baseline of people who do not play professional sports. It still cannot even be diagnosed with MRI, which means it must be diagnosed with subtle histological criteria postmortem.

I hate Goodell and all, but people who let their kids play football: you are sending your kid to have their brains bashed around against their skull, and you know it. If you think there will be no long-term consequences, then you just aren't thinking things through, and it ain't Goodell's fault.
 
It's a lot different now. When I was in high school about 25 yrs ago I remember in a game I was playing LB and after a tackle the LB next to me came up and was staggering around all dazed. Clearly had a concussion. Of course we had no clue how bad concussions are and we were joking after "see Leo out there, he didn't even know his name". Scary stuff looking back on it. In gym class our football coach had guys line up a few yards away from each, 1 on 1 no pads or anything, and just smoke each other. Whoever got moved back lost. Some huge blows happened. I don't think anything like that would be allowed now.
 
It's a lot different now. When I was in high school about 25 yrs ago I remember in a game I was playing LB and after a tackle the LB next to me came up and was staggering around all dazed. Clearly had a concussion. Of course we had no clue how bad concussions are and we were joking after "see Leo out there, he didn't even know his name". Scary stuff looking back on it. In gym class our football coach had guys line up a few yards away from each, 1 on 1 no pads or anything, and just smoke each other. Whoever got moved back lost. Some huge blows happened. I don't think anything like that would be allowed now.

Ever run the Oklahoma drill in practice? Thinking back on it, there were several times where I've made helmet to helmet contact during that drill where I was dazed afterward and my ears were ringing.
 
There is no equipment that will make it failproof and stop all concussions/broken bones. Just like boxing, there are major risks, this is a very high contact sport and you are literally risking death every time you step on the field, even if you are just a punter. They all know this, they will all literally say "Yes" if you ask them. If you were to ask "Do you think there might be unforeseen consequences for your brain, things science doesn't yet know, given that brain science is in its infancy?" They will all also say "Yes." (Unless they are too stupid to understand the question).

The lawsuits are about as reasonable as all professional boxers getting together to sue the professional boxing associations to say they didnt' realize getting punched in the head repeatedly could cause brain damage.

Also, I'm actually suspicious of all this CTE hype. We do not yet have a very good baseline of people who do not play professional sports. It still cannot even be diagnosed with MRI, which means it must be diagnosed with subtle histological criteria postmortem.

I hate Goodell and all, but people who let their kids play football: you are sending your kid to have their brains bashed around against their skull, and you know it. If you think there will be no long-term consequences, then you just aren't thinking things through, and it ain't Goodell's fault.
Agree and Disagree.

Agree that parents have to understand that there are unavoidable long term consequences for having their kids "brains bashed around against their skull" and "just aren't thinking things through" if they are in denial about that.

I'd also agree that anyone who has started playing football in the last two or three years probably does not have the standing to sue for these damages. Same as anyone who started smoking in the last 25 years. They all now know the risks.

But I disagree that CTE is "hype." It's science and it's getting more and more validation every day. And, just this week an advance was announced that still needs replication and confirmation but that shows promise that CTE will soon be able to be diagnosed by a routine PET scan. And, even if that proves to be a dead end, others are working on testing that will diagnose CTE in living persons in the next five to ten years.

I also disagree that those who played the game when the NFL was aware of the risks but effectively covering them up do not have the right to sue the League; the only reason the greedy owners are settling is that they know the League has liability. The lawsuits of those players are completely reasonable.

It is also reasonable for all players to demand that the league cover the costs of treatment for the damage caused to their bodies and minds that has made billions for the owners.
 
Ever run the Oklahoma drill in practice? Thinking back on it, there were several times where I've made helmet to helmet contact during that drill where I was dazed afterward and my ears were ringing.
I remember in Gr 10 there was a drill we had to do where as the Defensive player we had to try to split the gap between 2 o-lineman. 1 against 2. In training camp we practiced against the seniors. I remember going against 2 guys who were Provincial All Stars (I'm Canadian). One guy was 6.4" 280lbs and the other was 6.2" 375lbs (a monster!) Had to do that daily for 2 weeks and got absolutely killed each day. The juniors were just sacrificial lambs for those 2 guys. I'm sure the coaches loved it.
 
But I disagree that CTE is "hype." It's science and it's getting more and more validation every day. And, just this week an advance was announced that still needs replication and confirmation but that shows promise that CTE will soon be able to be diagnosed by a routine PET scan. And, even if that proves to be a dead end, others are working on testing that will diagnose CTE in living persons in the next five to ten years.
Good points.

I should clarify just because I think it is getting too much press and hype right now, that doesn't mean I think it is BS. I just think we need more science. It is still very early, popularized by a couple of doctors whose names are now attached to the diagnosis. Caution is called for is all I meant. It could be as bad as they say, but without the proper baseline measures, and better idea about statistical power of these tests, we need to be careful in jumping all over it.

Just to repeat: you are right it could be as bad as they say! (After all I just wrote a diatribe about how football basically involves slamming your brain against your skull!) Just because MRI doesn't find it yet, doesn't mean it isn't real. Hell, there are things I need histology to see in my rats' brains at work, and that doesn't invalidate the science I do. :rolleyes: But I am very suspicious when pretty much every NFL player has this disorder, and we don't have baselines from the general population.
 
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I remember in Gr 10 there was a drill we had to do where as the Defensive player we had to try to split the gap between 2 o-lineman. 1 against 2. In training camp we practiced against the seniors. I remember going against 2 guys who were Provincial All Stars (I'm Canadian). One guy was 6.4" 280lbs and the other was 6.2" 375lbs (a monster!) Had to do that daily for 2 weeks and got absolutely killed each day. The juniors were just sacrificial lambs for those 2 guys. I'm sure the coaches loved it.

Yeah **** like this makes me glad I didn't play. I have often regretted that I never played, the HS coach often tried to get me to come try out for WR (I'm very tall, and was athletic in HS). And it means I really don't understand the game like most of the people that post here, who really understand the X's and O's better than I ever will.

I played rugby (forward) at UNH for one season, and frankly was just not cut out for it. I got my bell rung once and was like, "These guys are freaking crazy. They like this ****." I'm way too cautious and injury-prone to ever really be good at it, you really have to have a heavy dose of "I don't give a F, I'm going to take you out even if it kills me" attitude, and frankly I could never get on board with the "even if it kills me" clause.

Stories like yours make me appreciate why the players put limited pad days into their contracts.

It's a brutal game, and frankly I think people like me that never played it can't fully appreciate that. It's when I talk to people that actually played that I realize how crazy **** gets on the gridiron. Even rugby, which was indeed pretty crazy, is sort of contained crazy, because we didn't wear pads so we had to tackle and scrum with a little decorum. :D
 
Hmm.

Montana, neck surgeries?
Manning, neck surgeries.

I'm thinking Papa John's should carry health warnings.
Papa John's "better ingredients" includes a special HGH topping that can be custom ordered. That's how Peyton became involved as pitchman.
 
This league is not going to make it another 20 years. Not with the way society is going.

Joe Montana might be the very best player to ever play in this league and if he's this broken down, it just sets a terrible precedent.

I mean what type of argument do you present in front of a judge: ' Your honor, of course the 100% injury rate, 90% CTE percentage, chronic dependence on pain medication, obesity epidemic for linemen and a lifetime of health expenses are ok. All the players *KNEW* beforehand, wink wink'

Would we accept something like this in a hazard profession like mining? No, the american population would eviscerate just about any profession with these types of statistics.

I love football, but this can't go on as it stands.

Not that I trust the NFL but isn't it being forced to make changes because of the current pressures it is now facing?

The NFL will always be able to find enough talented players who are willing to trade their future quality of life for a short term gain but it's biggest obstacle, IMO, is the future of its fan base. Parents are increasingly refusing to allow their children to play contact football in school while choosing other options such as Soccer to provide the competitive environment. Soccer has grown substantially over the last 40 years and that growth increased after the Women's US teams WC success and the now improved US Men's team global standing. Not sure if that will or has translated into less NFL fans but it has definitely increased the fanbase of Soccer.

Anyways the NFL is reluctantly being forced to change and the health issues we see today are a result of a pre-concussion awareness* era. We'll see if they improve in the future. I think they have to.
 
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