Offseason talk - would you trade Chandler Jones?

Ivan said:

My mistake completely, I have been treating him like Jones and Hightower, 5 year deal with option, and you're right he's a 4 year guy with no option. And that obviously changes the dynamic in turns of getting deals done but given the flexibility they have I still think they can get it all done without to much trouble. The Patriots can take the approach where they get Hightower and Collins done and leave Jones until after the season and either re-sign him or let him walk for the third. I would much rather have him contribute all season and take a 3rd than lose him for a 2nd.

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I wondered if you weren't assuming the 5th year option with Collins, based on some of your comments about the potential to retain Jones. I sometimes make the mistake of forgetting that Collins was a 2nd round pick myself.

I tend to agree with you that it's probably better to keep Jones, even if we may have a bit of a difference of opinions on his chances of staying beyond that. That all said, I can see why it's a debate. Some will see his leaving as inevitable, so they'll figure that an 8m dollar cap savings is the best way to go, as well as any compensation that may be had for him this offseason that may help replace him AND go forward in locking up some of the others.

Ultimately, it's back to "In BB we trust" for me and this situation. I'm honestly good either way, and can see both sides. If they don't think that there's much of a shot for Jones to stay (or maybe already realize that they're not going to give him 11-12+ million AAV), then they probably should dip their toes in the water and see what's out there.

supafly said:

I wondered if you weren't assuming the 5th year option with Collins, based on some of your comments about the potential to retain Jones. I sometimes make the mistake of forgetting that Collins was a 2nd round pick myself.

I tend to agree with you that it's probably better to keep Jones, even if we may have a bit of a difference of opinions on his chances of staying beyond that. That all said, I can see why it's a debate. Some will see his leaving as inevitable, so they'll figure that an 8m dollar cap savings is the best way to go, as well as any compensation that may be had for him this offseason that may help replace him AND go forward in locking up some of the others.

Ultimately, it's back to "In BB we trust" for me and this situation. I'm honestly good either way, and can see both sides. If they don't think that there's much of a shot for Jones to stay (or maybe already realize that they're not going to give him 11-12+ million AAV), then they probably should dip their toes in the water and see what's out there.

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Too much pain med and too little sleep.. I get the overall concept of moving guys early to get a return on them I just think that given where they are at as a team it's the wrong time to employ that tactic and would rather just seed them try to field as strong a team next season as they can, especially when that is more about keeping your own than bringing in a high priced FA and expecting them to fit in and deliver. If signing Wilkerson and letting Jones walk were close to an even swap and highly likely then I might see it differently but I just don't see that as the case, and I don't want them to weaken the D line to strengthen the O Line, I just want them to sign Hicks and then strengthen the O Line so as to make them stronger next season, period. And I want them to take that approach overall for the next couple of years instead of the post it forward approach, which is a great strategy for building long term but not as good when you are really young and already have most of the pieces in place and are in good cap shape, then I think finishing the job to field the best possible team is the best approach.

Ivan said:

Too much pain med and too little sleep.. I get the overall concept of moving guys early to get a return on them I just think that given where they are at as a team it's the wrong time to employ that tactic and would rather just seed them try to field as strong a team next season as they can, especially when that is more about keeping your own than bringing in a high priced FA and expecting them to fit in and deliver. If signing Wilkerson and letting Jones walk were close to an even swap and highly likely then I might see it differently but I just don't see that as the case, and I don't want them to weaken the D line to strengthen the O Line, I just want them to sign Hicks and then strengthen the O Line so as to make them stronger next season, period. And I want them to take that approach overall for the next couple of years instead of the post it forward approach, which is a great strategy for building long term but not as good when you are really young and already have most of the pieces in place and are in good cap shape, then I think finishing the job to field the best possible team is the best approach.

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I suppose it's ultimately going to come down to whether or not they feel that Jones is worth 8m dollars this season (approx. I think it's actually 7.799) or not, as well as their thoughts on any future plans with him as well as other key pieces of the team. Prioritizing may be key here, but that will be left for much smarter people than I am to figure out.

I'd probably lean towards your thinking that no matter whether he stays or not, Jones is worth the 8m dollar cap hit for this coming year--unless, of course, someone throws out a 1st round pick offer.

Even if he leaves after this season, we'll still be in line to reap a decent comp pick unless he manages to get injured or something that is unforeseen.

Froob said:

Well they did trade Seymour after one of his best years.

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They traded Seymour after all of his best years. In his prime, they certainly didn't say "we can't afford him" they got it done.

You can quibble about a little early, or not, but the fact is, they traded a guy who was often disgruntled, but a great player, when he was on the down slope, for what looked at the time, to be a high to mid first rounder.

IMO they will talk to HT and Collins, after that they will have X to pay Jones. If he is willing to take a discount he will stay, If he isnt they will move him. They want him to stay but he is not the priority. i think we will see a lot of small moves and then HT and Collins... Lets see

The more I read the posts in this thread the more I am convinced that we should keep him, extend him for a team friendly deal if possible. If not we can at the very least take the compensatory pick in 2017-18, and if for some reason he blossoms even more and has a monster year we can always tag him. One thing I can say that is hard to dispute is that Jones has gotten better every year in the NFL.

Why would people suggest cutting Vollmer when we don't have a first round pick, Vollmer is a very good RT where are you going to replace him?

You're just making the offensive line even worse if you do that, you're taking a big problem and making it a total disaster.

Mayo, Cannon, Lafell should all be gone.

Amendola can't be kept at his current number so he's going to have to restructure if he wants to stay.

ScottishPatriots said:

Why would people suggest cutting Vollmer when we don't have a first round pick, Vollmer is a very good RT where are you going to replace him?

You're just making the offensive line even worse if you do that, you're taking a big problem and making it a total disaster.

Mayo, Cannon, Lafell should all be gone.

Amendola can't be kept at his current number so he's going to have to restructure if he wants to stay.

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It is the same thing every year once the season ends, there is a contingent of people who believe half the team sucks and should be replaced. There will be movement as there is every off-season but it won't be anywhere near what some are calling for. They don't need much at all defensively and while they need more on offense a few really good moves could give them a great team on both sides of the ball next season.

I'll defer to the experts on this aspect of roster building but is it worth considering letting Jones play out 2016, hope he has an even better year and then franchise tag and trade him? Downside is that you get an expensive pass rusher for a year and, injuries allowing, a third round tradeable compensatory pick, whilst the upside is an extra year (2016) and, presumably, a first round pick.

Chandler is a good football player but he is not a dominate pass rusher and never will be Richard Seymour was 2 times the player chandler is

Love Jones just wish he would show up more in the playoffs.

manxman2601 said:

I'll defer to the experts on this aspect of roster building...

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Unless you work for one of a handful of NFL teams, don't hold your breath here.

Recent Defensive End Deals
Robert Quinn 2014 - 14.25M
Cameron Jordan 2015 11M APY
Vinny Curry - 2015 - 9.45
Jerry Hughes - 2015 - 9
Jurrell Casey- 2015- 9

Robert Quinn is the player that I hear used most often as a comparable to Chandler Jones.

Brady6 said:

I am not a fan of extending Amendola and Branch until they're 34-35 years old.

Collins is worth far more than Hightower. He was a second team all pro and he is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best LB in the entire NFL.

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right now, the pats can't stop the run without hightower......they are both important and they both serve a different purpose...I'd say their value to the pats is pretty equal and there's no point in arguing which one is more important since they can keep both....possibly at the cost of jones who is the most replaceable of the 3

Sorry I didn't read through all the posts. My take is I would trade him in a heart beat. He doesn't show up when its money time. He has 1 career sack in the post season and the only reason why he got that 1 sack is the O-linemen on Seahawks didn't block him. He disappears in the second half of the season. Just look back at the last 6 games 2 sacks vs Tenn, and the other 5 games 0.

Jones can't be counted on to come up with a game changing sack that is very much needed in the playoffs.

Tully Banta-cain had 10 sacks playing the same position as Jones.

Trey Flowers to me looks like a thicker guy who could stand up against the run. 2 years ago Pats tried to go to a 3-4 on the opening game vs Phins and Chandler Jones got trucked in that game.

KDPPatsfan85 said:

Would love to get a high second rounder. Trade him to the Titans

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I think the Titans might listen but I would want more than a second rounder. They have two kids with potential. Jeremiah Poutasi played OT and OG and has size and quick feet. He is not a plodder like Cannon and Flemming. To stop players like Von Miller, you have to have those type of "quicks" . He also has a season under his belt in the NFL which is a plus over a rookie OT. He started 7 games for the Titans and was not bad as a rookie playing both inside and out on the line. He is your size and length guy. He becomes the swing lineman and can start right now at RT if needed. A major upgrade over Cannon, Flemming and Kline.

Then I want WR Justin Hunter. Big , fast and young. He has had crap for QB his first two years in TN and A young Rookie QB this year. He actually led the AFC in yards per catch in 2014. He plays behind Dorial Green-Beckham so he is trad-able. 78" wingspan. One of the best in the NFL.

So a second rounder and these two youngsters who are cheap and can help now....A draft pick is still an uncertainty. But we will take your second rounder. It saves us CAP.

Would you do that Trade for Jones?
DW Toys

P.S. A Free Agent on the Titans that would be a steal for us. Don't sleep on LB Zach Brown. 4.4 Speed. Can cover. 6'1" and 248lbs. Coming back from 2014 pectoral injury and only started 5 games in 2015. Is now ready. In really three years 10 sacks, 13 passes defended and 6 Ints.Would take the sting out of losing Mayo. He is one of my FA binkies. Imagine Collins, Hightower and Brown as LBS for 2016 Pats. What core is better?

Miguel said:

Recent Defensive End Deals
Robert Quinn 2014 - 14.25M
Cameron Jordan 2015 11M APY
Vinny Curry - 2015 - 9.45
Jerry Hughes - 2015 - 9
Jurrell Casey- 2015- 9

Robert Quinn is the player that I hear used most often as a comparable to Chandler Jones.

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In which case there is a huge disconnect between talent evaluators in the NFL and those who consider him just an average player because average players don't get 14 million a year. I think Jones is a very good player but would go much over 50 for 5 for him, if he wants 70-80 million let him walk and take the compensatory pick for him. I want this season's defense as strong as possible so I wouldn't trade him just to move up a round in the draft.

Trade Jones for who? For what?

PATS68 said:

Tully Banta-cain had 10 sacks playing the same position as Jones.

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And even more recently, Mark Anderson had 10 sacks as well.