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mgteich said:

I don't understand why folks want to trade Jones now and rely on Grissom, Flowere and Johnson to replace him.

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Yeah, trade Jones now and you only have one sure-fire starting quality DE on the roster with Sheard. Flowers (whose preseason performance caused some ruckus) Grissom etc. are unproven while Nink has just turned 32.

Since there is no way to fetch a mid first rounder this year for Jones I just don't see how you can get appropriate value for Jones. If I'm to trade a guaranteed double-digit sack guy entering his prime in a contract year where he could play his best football ever I'd like to get something that can immediately improve the team and at least keep the overall quality of the roster constant.

Lets just say screw it get Calvin Johnson, Josh Gordon, Marvin Jones, Demarco Murray Rolando Mcclain, Jason Mccourty, Sean Smith
If we cant win the Superbowl with that roster we need a new coaching staff

mgteich said:

I don't understand why folks want to trade Jones now and rely on Grissom, Flowere and Johnson to replace him.

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I think that Sheard would play RDE and the 3 you mentioned would be replacing Sheard as the #3 DE in the rotation.

They also could move Easley to RDE in a base or they could use Hightower off the edge in a sub package. Things would not be as bad as you suggest.

Jones only had 3 sacks in the final 8 games, 2 of which came against the Titans. 9 1/2 of his 13 1/2 sacks came against in 4 games against the Bills, Colts, Dolphins, and Titans. He is a good player but he isn't a premier edge rusher like Watt or Houston.

Edit: I would add I really like Jones always have and if this was a month ago I would probably be 100% against trading him but I cannot get past the thought of a player who missed the final game of the regular season with an injury getting high the week before the first playoff game. It shows a lack of priorities.

Jones is a good ball player but he does not show up in all ball games

In 9 playoff games for his career he has 2.0 sacks and 13 tackles that is terrible

The patriots are not a aggressive defense but still big time players show up in big time games and he is not that that

Brady6 said:

Edit: I would add I really like Jones always have and if this was a month ago I would probably be 100% against trading him but I cannot get past the thought of a player who missed the final game of the regular season with an injury getting high the week before the first playoff game. It shows a lack of priorities.

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Belichick is probably longer over this. Perhaps this incident will bring down the market value of Jones.

Brady6 said:

I think that Sheard would play RDE and the 3 you mentioned would be replacing Sheard as the #3 DE in the rotation.

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When we have had a serious drop-off from #2 to #3 (before Sheard), Belichick tends to give the #3 DE very few reps, unless there was an injury. And I agree with this strategy.

Brady6 said:

I think that Sheard would play RDE and the 3 you mentioned would be replacing Sheard as the #3 DE in the rotation.

They also could move Easley to RDE in a base or they could use Hightower off the edge in a sub package. Things would not be as bad as you suggest.

Jones only had 3 sacks in the final 8 games, 2 of which came against the Titans. 9 1/2 of his 13 1/2 sacks came against in 4 games against the Bills, Colts, Dolphins, and Titans. He is a good player but he isn't a premier edge rusher like Watt or Houston.

Edit: I would add I really like Jones always have and if this was a month ago I would probably be 100% against trading him but I cannot get past the thought of a player who missed the final game of the regular season with an injury getting high the week before the first playoff game. It shows a lack of priorities.

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100% agree. He's a good player, but he does not take over or dominate a game like Watt, Justin Houston, or Aaron Donald. I'd like to see him back, but not at the price he'll probably command in free agency next year. If that means him just playing out the last year of his deal, so be it. If he gets traded, I think Sheard and others can step up so the production drop off won't that steep. The rest of the front 7 is extremely talented, and our secondary is really starting to gel. Again, hope they work something out with him, but not at the expense of Hightower or Collins...or Butler for that matter.

Simple Jack's Brother said:

100% agree. He's a good player, but he does not take over or dominate a game like Watt, Justin Houston, or Aaron Donald. I'd like to see him back, but not at the price he'll probably command in free agency next year. If that means him just playing out the last year of his deal, so be it. If he gets traded, I think Sheard and others can step up so the production drop off won't that steep. The rest of the front 7 is extremely talented, and our secondary is really starting to gel. Again, hope they work something out with him, but not at the expense of Hightower or Collins...or Butler for that matter.

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So, the drop isn't too steep.

We had Ninkovich, Sheard and Jones sharing reps.

We would have Ninkovich, Sheard and Flowers/Grissom sharing reps

Repeat out loud 3 times that the best of Flowers and Grissom is not much of a drop off from Jones this year. I'm Not buying.

The only way this might work is if Ninkovich and Sheard played 90% of the reps each. Ninkovich is just not up to this kind of war and tear anymore. The reason the DL succeeded so well is that we had 3 top DE's.

PF_SU said:

Since there is no way to fetch a mid first rounder this year for Jones I just don't see how you can get appropriate value for Jones.

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I think you may be overestimating the trade value for a guy like Chandler Jones.

As a matter of fact, how many players on our entire team would command a "mid first rounder?" I'd be interested in seeing a list of all the players in the entire league who would bring back in a pick in the early-mid teens via compensation. You're talking about a category of players who would be considered "elite."

I would be perfectly fine with selecting at #29 for a trade of Jones, seeing as how we received 4 years of production from him on the cheap, rookie deal. Unfortunately, it doesn't necessarily address how we'd replace that production, or what we'd do in his absence.

mgteich said:

So, the drop isn't too steep.

We had Ninkovich, Sheard and Jones sharing reps.

We would have Ninkovich, Sheard and Flowers/Grissom sharing reps

Repeat out loud 3 times that the best of Flowers and Grissom is not much of a drop off from Jones this year. I'm Not buying.

The only way this might work is if Ninkovich and Sheard played 90% of the reps each. Ninkovich is just not up to this kind of war and tear anymore. The reason the DL succeeded so well is that we had 3 top DE's.

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I fully agree with you, however there is always more than one way to skin a cat. We've certainly had the same discussions over the years, most recently last offseason with the losses of Revis, Browner, Dennard, and Arrington. I don't think anyone felt comfortable with the secondary after those moves, and it proved to hold up pretty well. Here's some quick thoughts off the top of my head:

1) Extend Sheard and lower his 7m dollar cap number. That would pretty much guarantee freeing up at least TEN million dollars from trading Jones and extending Sheard. As you mention, Ninkovich isn't up to the task of seeing 96% of the snaps anymore, but chances are that Belichick still sees him as a key piece, at least until his pact is up. Our starting point would be Ninkovich/Sheard. Not what we want, but it's certainly something that can be built upon.

2) Blend in Flowers/Grissom/Ninkovich/Sheard--after all, both Flowers and Grissom were top 100 picks. It's pointless to have used high round selections on them if they're never going to be given an opportunity. As we know, it's unlikely that BOTH of them work out, but I can envision a scenario where Belichick gives at least one of them an extended look to keep Ninkovich's reps at a manageable rate.

3) Use the high round draft capital gained in the trade to re-build and try and find the "next" player who can contribute. This is a Belichick favorite, as it gives us another chance of finding good value for a cheap, first-second round contract.

4) Free agency may offer another solution as it did last year.

5) Move around some pieces such as Easley, Hightower (at times) etc. Easier said than done, but still something to consider.

6) Add some additional depth/competition via mid-lower rounds/tiers of the draft + free agency.

Brady6 said:

They also could move Easley to RDE in a base

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No to this. Easley this season was one of the most disruptive interior pass rushers, you don't take him out wide and significantly reduce his impact. This would be akin to splitting Gronk out wide and have him run go routes on a full-time basis. Can he do it? Yes. But he would be far less effective.

mgteich said:

Ninkovich is just not up to this kind of war and tear anymore.

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Yes, at Ninkovich's age you have to count on the possibility of a sudden drop-off. Ninkovich already had a few occasions this season where he failed in setting the edge etc., stuff that were routine for him. He still had a good season, but I wouldn't feel good counting on Ninkovich as full-time starting DE. Jared Allen had a steep drop-off from his age 31 to age 32 season, Mike Vrabel had his greatest season in 2007 at age 32, but fell off in 2008 and was traded that offseason.

supafly said:

I think you may be overestimating the trade value for a guy like Chandler Jones.

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I'm not overestimating his trade value. I'm on the record in another thread for saying that I doubt you can fetch a 1st and a 4th for him, perhaps even a 1st. What I tried to express was, we are at a point where next season should be the culmination of the rebuilding effort started in 2009 on the defensive side of things. If we are to trade a starting DE who when healthy is a lock for double-digit sacks heading into a career year I'd want something in return that can immediately contribute. And from a pick standpoint it's hard to find immediate playmakers that could - either at the same position or at another position - compensate the lost production from Jones.

People are seriously overvaluing Chandler Jones in this thread to the point where it gets almost bizarre. Ironically, this is also the reason why we should trade him right now because his value will never be higher despite the fact that his production only checks out on the stats sheet. The only big plays he made were as usual at the beginning of the season and then he wore down to the point of no production at all. Yes, right now he is of course better than Grissom/Flowers but he is still only our third best DE and the best trade asset this team has at a position where we have two better players and some depth behind.

Quite honestly I don't think he has the body to handle a full NFL season. His big advantage in many cases is his wingspan but when he encounters players that play with excellent technique and similar athleticism he usually gets handled. Especially towards the end of the season.

Also the people who seriously think we can fetch a first round pick for Jones need to get off their meds. This is not Madden, this is not how it works. I'd be already happy if we'd find a fool that would offer a high/mid 2nd pick. That being said I'd rather have an additional 2nd round pick this year than a late 3rd round compensatory pick in two years. If no one offers at least a second round pick then the trade discussion is moot anyway because it shows that the rest of the league also knows that his production on the stats sheet doesn't match up with his value on the field.