The 2016 Patriots Will Be a Juggernaut

JackBauer · Feb 3, 2016

ivanvamp said:
Blount is a FA. Not sure he'll be back. He's certainly ok, but I'd much rather have a better RB situation. All depends on what it takes to improve.

I'd prefer to move on from LGB, as I don't think it'd require much capital to replace or improve on what he offers.

mgteich · Feb 3, 2016

Deus Irae said:
You seem to think that being the #1 passing offense in the regular season holds some deep meaning. We've seen, repeatedly, that it doesn't, as this team's never won the Super Bowl in a year where it led the league in points scored. Also, for the record, this team hasn't been the #1 scoring team in the league since 2012.

This team needs a quality OWR

This team needs a legit TE2

This team needs a legit OT

This team needs a legit IOL AND improved play from the 3 puppies

This team needs either new blood at RB, or more consistent results from LGB (Don't know how much was on the OL)

IMHO, this is the shortest list of needs in recent years. For example, we have zero must re-sign free agents.

WE NEED TO REPLACE OR GET MUCH BETTER PRODUCTION FROM
LaFell
Chandler
Cannon
Kline
Blount

In addition, we need to draft a top OT.

Have I missed something?

Deus Irae · Feb 3, 2016

ivanvamp said:
Blount is a FA. Not sure he'll be back. He's certainly ok, but I'd much rather have a better RB situation. All depends on what it takes to improve.

RB will be interesting. We don't know how much of the RB problem was the OL, but it's clear that it was a high percentage of the problem. Having said that:

We all know that Bolden and White are lousy running running backs, and that hamstrings the team. Bolden is a key ST guy, and White will be kept because Lewis can't be counted on given his injury situation.
Getting the FB back should help
Blount's numbers were actually fine, but somewhat misleading because of the consistency issue. The problem for him remained the same as always. He's not elusive in the backfield, because he needs room to get up to speed. That doesn't mean that he was at fault, but I think it does mean that outsiders can't be sure whether or not he was losing a step.
Jackson won't be back

The bottom line is that the team is only going to carry so many RBs/FBs, and the position(s) as currently staffed consist(s) of 3 players coming off of IR and 2 RBs who didn't end up on IR but can't run the football.

Tony2046 · Feb 3, 2016

mgteich said:
We were talking about our key offensive position players, specifically in the passing game.

But OK, let's presume Brady, Edelman, Gronkowksi and Lewis (and also our #4 WR , Martin).

Can we improve on Amendola and LaFell? Sure. We can improve on everyone of offense except for Brady and Gronkowski. Obviously, that is NOT a relevant question.

You seem to think that the 2015 Amendola and the 2014 LaFell are not good enough to make this is the #1 passing offense in the league, given some protection. I strongly disagree. I think that it is very, very likely that Amendola will be our #2 our #3WR in 2016. As for LaFell, the team will need to judge whether he can regain his form and is worth $2M a year. My guess is that LaFell will come to camp.

We may spend $4M a year for a free agent WR. However, I think guys like Gibson (and Martin) are more likely.

Martin was a pleasant surprise this year. IMO.

I have enough patience to see which Lafell we will see next season considering what he gave the Pats in 2014 although I'm not opposed to signing an upgrade.

Deus Irae · Feb 3, 2016

mgteich said:
IMHO, this is the shortest list of needs in recent years. For example, we have zero must re-sign free agents.

My list was only about the offensive side of the ball. It (offensive side) actually would add up to more needs than last year, because last year we could at least have some level of confidence in Wendell, if he were healthy.

mgteich said:
WE NEED TO REPLACE OR GET MUCH BETTER PRODUCTION FROM
LaFell
Chandler
Cannon
Kline
Blount

In addition, we need to draft a top OT.

Have I missed something?

Yes. For example, even with LaFell, this team needs a legit middle-deep threat. But, overall, it's just a question of the team getting the evaluations right. Given the front defensive needs being relatively minimal (CB2/LB3or LB4/) if the expected returners actually do, the team should be able to focus enough capital to fix at least most of the offensive problems.

Tony2046 · Feb 3, 2016

Deus Irae said:
RB will be interesting. We don't know how much of the RB problem was the OL, but it's clear that it was a high percentage of the problem. Having said that:

We all know that Bolden and White are lousy running running backs, and that hamstrings the team. Bolden is a key ST guy, and White will be kept because Lewis can't be counted on given his injury situation.

Getting the FB back should help

Blount's numbers were actually fine, but somewhat misleading because of the consistency issue. The problem for him remained the same as always. He's not elusive in the backfield, because he needs room to get up to speed. That doesn't mean that he was at fault, but I think it does mean that outsiders can't be sure whether or not he was losing a step.

Jackson won't be back

The bottom line is that the team is only going to carry so many RBs/FBs, and the position(s) as currently staffed consist(s) of 3 players coming off of IR and 2 RBs who didn't end up on IR but can't run the football.

Forgot all about getting Develin back.

ViperGTS · Feb 3, 2016

JackBauer said:
Sorry, but claiming Oakland should be favored over NE is... <insert derisive adjective of choice here>.

With a first round pick, and all the young talent they have? Don't sleep on the Raiders. If the Pats do what they should this offseason it won't be that close. However if they stand pat and don't upgrade certain positions they will be again ripe for the picking. Khalil Mack would get 8 sacks in a game against the likes of Cannon and Fleming. To think otherwise is sheer folly.

Tony2046 · Feb 3, 2016

ViperGTS said:
With a first round pick, and all the young talent they have? Don't sleep on the Raiders. If the Pats do what they should this offseason it won't be that close. However if they stand pat and don't upgrade certain positions they will be again ripe for the picking. Khalil Mack would get 8 sacks in a game against the likes of Cannon and Fleming. To think otherwise is sheer folly.

I agree that Oakland is an improving team but the Pats were an injury laden team and still were just a couple of Stork head bobs away from going to another SB.

ivanvamp · Feb 3, 2016

Deus Irae said:
RB will be interesting. We don't know how much of the RB problem was the OL, but it's clear that it was a high percentage of the problem. Having said that:

We all know that Bolden and White are lousy running running backs, and that hamstrings the team. Bolden is a key ST guy, and White will be kept because Lewis can't be counted on given his injury situation.

Getting the FB back should help

Blount's numbers were actually fine, but somewhat misleading because of the consistency issue. The problem for him remained the same as always. He's not elusive in the backfield, because he needs room to get up to speed. That doesn't mean that he was at fault, but I think it does mean that outsiders can't be sure whether or not he was losing a step.

Jackson won't be back

The bottom line is that the team is only going to carry so many RBs/FBs, and the position(s) as currently staffed consist(s) of 3 players coming off of IR and 2 RBs who didn't end up on IR but can't run the football.

I agree, Deus. Go with Lynch, Bolden, White, Develin, and Lewis. Lynch is the workhorse. Bolden the special teamer and last guy to use in a pinch. White is Lewis' backup, and he showed that he could help in the passing game, so he could take some of the load off Lewis and reduce the number of hits Lewis takes.

I think that RB stable would be solid. An improved OL with beast mode running angry would make Tom Brady a very, very happy man.

FWIW, Lynch is a dual-threat kind of back. He's not a phenomenal pass-catcher, but he's solid.
2013: 36 rec, 316 yds, 8.8 ypc
2014: 37 rec, 367 yds, 9.9 ypc

So when he's in it's not automatically a run.

PATS68 · Feb 3, 2016

Ivan said:
I will be greatly disappointed if they go that route and I think their chances of winning another Super Bowl will be seriously jeopardized if they end up with absolutely no run game in the playoffs once again. Can Brady overcome it? Yes. Does it make it significantly tougher for him? Yes. Did it make it much tougher for the OL to execute and protect him? Absolutely.

Imo Belichick knows the run game is an issue and knows he needs to get it fixed, that's why the 3 interior OL he has drafted the past two years were all strong run blockers, with Mason considered to be the best run blocking lineman in the country. I think the ability to run right at people and win the fistfight is important to Belichick and he brought the lineman in with that purpose in mind but couldn't find the first down back he needs in part years draft of free agency. Lewis was a great find but he can't do it on his own. Belichick does everything with a clear reason and drafting 3 interior OL who are all really good run blockers was done with the purpose of rebuilding his interior OL to be able to run effectively. Fortunately this is an excellent free agent class and they aren't going to command the 10 million a season that guys like Peterson and Lynch have gotten, in fact they could almost certainly get both Forte and Lamar Miller for that money. And while I don't as that happening 5 million for starting back capable of putting up 1, 300-1,500 yards would be money really well spent and would bring them the balance needed to beat to defense's. Forte is still at the top of my list but Doug Martin or Miller would also be great additions, and Ivory would be a great replacement for Blount. The defense is in excellent shape so they can spend their money in free agency on offense, and adding a good running back and a real deep threat would make this a much better team next season. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do in this free agency and feel like it's a good market for their needs, whereas the loss of their first founder and what looks like an average draft class make filling their immediate needs there less likely.

Great post and I agree with you 100%. Its not about the names that have been mentioned its about the mindset. Mason and Jackson are good in the run game and they were forced to be pass blockers. I would love to see Mason and Jackson ear hole a LB's down field.

A topic not giving much run is the down field blocking of our WR's. For argument sake say they run the ball 20 to 25 times a game, that is 25 times less that Gronk and cast are getting hit.

BTTA · Feb 3, 2016

ViperGTS said:
This statement is "useful"? Wow what a sad state we are in. See you are a sycophant. You believe everything about your team.

Very. I was looking for some information, and Ivan provided it, therefore by definition the comment is useful. "Useful" on this board (for me) means either it fills an information gap or makes a positive contribution to the quality of the dialogue (evokes creative thought and insightful comments from others, and encourages a variety of opinions). If there were a "Not Useful" label, it would indicate a comment that takes the conversation away from a topic I'm enjoying, or is argumentative and phrased in a manner that implies someone else is wrong.

There are times when I'll use the "useful" label sarcastically, because there isn't a "not useful" label.

RobertWeathers · Feb 3, 2016

Tony2046 said:
Forgot all about getting Develin back.

Why? He busted his shin. Hardly a career-threatening injury.

Tony2046 · Feb 3, 2016

robertweathers said:
Why? He busted his shin. Hardly a career-threatening injury.

I simply forgot that he was coming back. It's like the time I was cleaning out my wallet and found a twenty dollar bill. It wasn't a bonus but it felt like it.

captain stone · Feb 3, 2016

mgteich said:
IMHO, this is the shortest list of needs in recent years. For example, we have zero must re-sign free agents.

WE NEED TO REPLACE OR GET MUCH BETTER PRODUCTION FROM
LaFell
Chandler
Cannon
Kline
Blount

In addition, we need to draft a top OT.

Have I missed something?

I'd add Cam Fleming to the list. If all of he, Cannon & Kline are on the Opening Day 53, then Bill once
again will not have done enough to improve the OL depth chart.

mgteich · Feb 3, 2016

captain stone said:
I'd add Cam Fleming to the list. If all of he, Cannon & Kline are on the Opening Day 53, then Bill once
again will not have done enough to improve the OL depth chart.

Yeah, I should have included Fleming. But I did state that we replace Cannon PLUS draft a top OT. So, we would be replacing Fleming.

JackBauer · Feb 4, 2016

ViperGTS said:
With a first round pick, and all the young talent they have? Don't sleep on the Raiders. If the Pats do what they should this offseason it won't be that close. However if they stand pat and don't upgrade certain positions they will be again ripe for the picking. Khalil Mack would get 8 sacks in a game against the likes of Cannon and Fleming. To think otherwise is sheer folly.

There's a rather substantial difference between saying Oakland is an up and coming team and that they should be favored over the Patriots next season.

Ivan · Feb 4, 2016

ivanvamp said:
I agree, Deus. Go with Lynch, Bolden, White, Develin, and Lewis. Lynch is the workhorse. Bolden the special teamer and last guy to use in a pinch. White is Lewis' backup, and he showed that he could help in the passing game, so he could take some of the load off Lewis and reduce the number of hits Lewis takes.

I think that RB stable would be solid. An improved OL with beast mode running angry would make Tom Brady a very, very happy man.

FWIW, Lynch is a dual-threat kind of back. He's not a phenomenal pass-catcher, but he's solid.
2013: 36 rec, 316 yds, 8.8 ypc
2014: 37 rec, 367 yds, 9.9 ypc

So when he's in it's not automatically a run.

I don't get the desire for Lynch, he's under contract, gets 10 million a year, dropped off significantly this season, and has been talking about retiring for two years. They could get Forte and Ivory for the same amount as Lynch would cost and it wouldn't cost them a pick in return. Beyond that I seriously question bringing in a guy who really wants to call it quits. I could see it four years ago but think it's the wrong move right now and I'm someone who sees RB as the top offseason prioroty.

patriot1136 · Feb 4, 2016

Don't know if this is a stupid question or not, but what about bringing back Ridley? I want to say he only had a 1 year deal from the Jets. I would think he is an upgrade over Blount at least.

captain stone · Feb 4, 2016

We should be able to improve upon Ridley without much effort; but I would be very, very careful about bringing Marshawn Lynch here: I question his gas tank, his durability, and his motivation.

Ivan · Feb 4, 2016

mgteich said:
IMHO, this is the shortest list of needs in recent years. For example, we have zero must re-sign free agents.

WE NEED TO REPLACE OR GET MUCH BETTER PRODUCTION FROM
LaFell
Chandler
Cannon
Kline
Blount

In addition, we need to draft a top OT.

Have I missed something?

I basically agree but would hold off on letting LaFell or Dobson go until they add more quality to their receiving corps. I would much rather see them build up first and release second so they don't create needs unnecessarily. They have no choice but to address Mayo's contract so they will have to address that need but other than that they can make moves from a position of strength. Getting rid of Chandler doesn't create any need because he didn't contribute anything and is easily replaceable.

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