patriots are terrible at drafting wr

Ivan said:

Lloyd figured it out?

Lloyd sucked.

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This be a bit harsh for a guy who caught 74 balls and had almost 1000 yards during a season that saw both Gronk and Ahern as top producing targets, along with Welker who completely dominated.

If we had anything close to this kind of production with this current team, we'd win the SB at least a couple of more times. Of course, it just so happens that 2014 LaFell caught almost the exact same number of passes (74) and had almost the same number of yards (approx. 950) as 2012 Llyod.

While I agree that Llyod wasn't terrific, he was certainly adequate enough that we were more than happy to have the same kind of production from LaFell last year, which I believe is "good enough" to win the SB again. Unfortunately, we didn't get that kind of production from LaFell this year.

mgteich said:

If LaFell has the same season as 2014, how much of a crisis do we have with
Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Martin, Gronkowski, and Lewis as our receivers?

And perhaps we might even dream that Brady might have 2.5 seconds instead of 2.

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Absolutely none, and that's with guys like Lewis, Edelman and Martin all missing very significant time. I mean, how many games did they miss between the 3 of them? I'm guessing about 20, maybe even a couple more.

If we had LaFell's 2014 production this year, we'd definitely be back in the SB, if not win the whole thing. It's not a sexy choice like the physical, speedier WR threat that we all want, but the fact remains that players like 2014 LaFell are just fine to give the team a decent shot.

I felt so bad for gronk in that afc title game. He's an all time great trancendent talent being surrounded by mediocre role model players. Dude was getting double and triple teamed in that 4th quarter because no one gives a damn about Danny amendola and Brandon Lafell.

Brady is like **** it, Gronk with 3 guys all over him>>>>>everyone else

mgteich said:

If LaFell has the same season as 2014, how much of a crisis do we have with
Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Martin, Gronkowski, and Lewis as our receivers?

And perhaps we might even dream that Brady might have 2.5 seconds instead of 2.

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LaFell is what he is. He's a WR3 kind of guy who, in 2014, was lifted to a higher level of play, and a career season, by Brady. Why do we just accept that as being good enough?

Deus Irae said:

LaFell is what he is. He's a WR3 kind of guy who, in 2014, was lifted to a higher level of play, and a career season, by Brady. Why do we just accept that as being good enough?

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I think the concern is that kind of player is the best we're going to get here, at least under Belichick.

A 75 catch/(close to) 1000 yard WR who's not even the focal point of the offense with two other main players in front of him would be just fine for any other team, but once those players go down or miss any time the "real" LaFell shows up and we're screwed. As you already know, Llyod was another who was "good enough" under normal circumstances, but disappeared once his role shifted.

I didn't like passing on Sanders the first time with that meaningless, lowball offer, and when they failed to bring him in a second time I was even angrier. If we're going to upgrade the receiving corps then it will likely have to be by getting rid of both LaFell and Amendola, and even then we'll still have to find the right fit who's going to accept that 5m dollar AAV deal.

supafly said:

I think the concern is that kind of player is the best we're going to get here, at least under Belichick.

A 75 catch/(close to) 1000 yard WR who's not even the focal point of the offense with two other main players in front of him would be just fine for any other team, but once those players go down or miss any time the "real" LaFell shows up and we're screwed. As you already know, Llyod was another who was "good enough" under normal circumstances, but disappeared once his role shifted.

I didn't like passing on Sanders the first time with that meaningless, lowball offer, and when they failed to bring him in a second time I was even angrier. If we're going to upgrade the receiving corps then it will likely have to be by getting rid of both LaFell and Amendola, and even then we'll still have to find the right fit who's going to accept that 5m dollar AAV deal.

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(I'm tired and it's late, so my apologies for any data or math errors below. If there are any, they are not deliberate.)

For the better part of a decade, this team has spent its highest capital on the defense. Since 2006*, the Patriots have devoted the top of their drafts to the defense. The following list is a year-by-year list of the defensive players taken prior to an offensive pick being taken.

2007 - Meriweather/Brown
2008 - Mayo/Wheatley/Crable
2009 - Chung/Brace/Butler
2010 - McCourty
2011 - exception: Solder was chosen first
2012 - Jones/Hightower/Wilson/Bequette/Ebner/Dennard
2013 - Collins
2014 - Easley
2015 - Brown/Richards/Grissom/Flowers

Looking at another angle, here are the picks in the top 3 rounds, where a team is most likely to get players:

2007 - 1 defense, 0 offense
2008 - 3 defense, 0 offense
2009 - 4 defense, 2 offense
2010 - 3 defense, 2 offense
2011 - 1 defense, 2 offense, 1 QB (A frickin' QB drafted in the top 3 rounds in 2011)
2012 - 4 defense, 0 offense
2013 - 3 defense, 1 offense
2014 - 1 defense, 1 offense, 1 QB
2015 - 3 defense, 0 offense
Total high pick investments, 2007 - 2015: 23 defense, 8 offense, 2 QBs

They also haven't spent any real money (I'm talking comparative, not absolute dollars) on any offensive players in free agency, in quite a while, with the arguable exception of Amendola, whom they got because they wanted to low ball Welker rather than pay him, and instead paid the lesser salary to DA when Welker balked. In fact, they traded away their best OL because they wanted to go on the cheap. They got away with it one year, and it bit them on the ass, hard, the next. And, as you noted, they tried to go cheap on Sanders, and lost him to the Broncos. Hell, they could have gone low money and grabbed Incognito, but they didn't even do that.

That all needs to change. It's past time to invest more in the offense. And, with the 1st round pick gone and high-end trades a rarity in the NFL, that's probably going to mean a focus on offensive free agents, if they're looking to get things done in 2016.

* The first round pick split from 2001-2006 was 4/3 offense, and there was no 1st rounder in 2000.

Deus Irae said:

LaFell is what he is. He's a WR3 kind of guy who, in 2014, was lifted to a higher level of play, and a career season, by Brady. Why do we just accept that as being good enough?

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Good Post and spot on.
DW Toys

Deus Irae said:

You've got to be yanking our chains with those two.

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I wouldn't mind having at least one of Andre Holmes or (preferably) Jeff Janis at the bottom of the
depth chart, wouldn't you?.

mgteich said:

If LaFell has the same season as 2014, how much of a crisis do we have with
Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Martin, Gronkowski, and Lewis as our receivers?

And perhaps we might even dream that Brady might have 2.5 seconds instead of 2.

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We need a better LaFell, and possibly a better Martin too.

eom said:

maybe belichick should be waiting 'til 3 yrs after the draft to make his picks

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Sorry, but I made my feelings fairly well-known at the time of the drafts mentioned earlier.

supafly said:

This be a bit harsh for a guy who caught 74 balls and had almost 1000 yards during a season that saw both Gronk and Ahern as top producing targets, along with Welker who completely dominated.

If we had anything close to this kind of production with this current team, we'd win the SB at least a couple of more times. Of course, it just so happens that 2014 LaFell caught almost the exact same number of passes (74) and had almost the same number of yards (approx. 950) as 2012 Llyod.

While I agree that Llyod wasn't terrific, he was certainly adequate enough that we were more than happy to have the same kind of production from LaFell last year, which I believe is "good enough" to win the SB again. Unfortunately, we didn't get that kind of production from LaFell this year.

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I thought he was as ineffective as a WR could be. Watching him it felt as though he made no big plays and had no YAC whatsoever.IIRC his YAC was less than a yard per reception, in other words he fell over upon receiving the ball. Belichick apparently wasn't impressed either as he cut him as soon as he could. That signing was simply bad advice from MacDaniels.

captain stone said:

I wouldn't mind having at least one of Andre Holmes or (preferably) Jeff Janis at the bottom of the
depth chart, wouldn't you?.

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That doesn't make those draft screw ups. There's a difference between hindsighting (and even openly wishing for at the time) players and the team screwing up draft picks. Holmes was a UDFA, so he can't possibly be a draft screw up, and *****ing about J. Thomas over Janis is ludicrous. Hell, in 19 regular season games, Janis has 4 catches on 14 targets.

Also, I'm not sure how you're rating Holmes, but he's not anything to write home about.

Ivan said:

I thought he was as ineffective as a WR could be. Watching him it felt as though he made no big plays and had no YAC whatsoever.IIRC his YAC was led than a yard per reception, in other words he fell over upon receiving the ball. Belichick apparently wasn't impressed either as he cut him as soon as he could. That signing was simply bad advice from MacDaniels.

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Lloyd definitely had a very quiet 74 receptions and 900 yards. Someone posted a stat earlier though that 50 of his catches were for first downs, which is impressive. None of his plays were big at all. On the flip side, at least he could get open enough and make the catch. I vaguely recall an interview with Lloyd saying that another former receiver gave him advice on getting down after the catch to avoid taking hits and prolonging your career.

patriot1136 said:

Lloyd definitely had a very quiet 74 receptions and 900 yards. Someone posted a stat earlier though that 50 of his catches were for first downs, which is impressive. None of his plays were big at all. On the flip side, at least he could get open enough and make the catch. I vaguely recall an interview with Lloyd saying that another former receiver gave him advice on getting down after the catch to avoid taking hits and prolonging your career.

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To me Amendola is the opposite of what Lloyd was. Whereas Lloyd had decent numbers nothing he did seemed to really help them win. Amendola on the other hand has had average numbers but he makes big plays when they really need them, and I would rather have smaller numbers with big plays over better numbers with no meaningful plays, and that imo is exactly what's missing in all the stat based analysis we get from the douches at PFF and their like. Some guys are winners and some arent, period, and imo Lloyd wasn't a winner and neither is Dobson, which is why I'm hoping they replace him by the start of next season.

During the 1980's, Tony Eason & Steve Grogan threw to Stanley Morgan, Irving Fryar, Stephan Starring, and Cedric Jones.

Ivan said:

To me Amendola is the opposite of what Lloyd was. Whereas Lloyd had decent numbers nothing he did seemed to really help them win. Amendola on the other hand has had average numbers but he makes big plays when they really need them, and I would rather have smaller numbers with big plays over better numbers with no meaningful plays, and that imo is exactly what's missing in all the stat based analysis we get from the douches at PFF and their like. Some guys are winners and some arent, period, and imo Lloyd wasn't a winner and neither is Dobson, which is why I'm hoping they replace him by the start of next season.

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totally agree. Lloyd isn't a full team player, doesn't sacrifice himself for the team and apparently had attitude problems which is probably why he wasn't re-signed. It seemed like he wasn't giving it 100% all the time a la Manny Ramirez in the outfield at times. Dobson seems like a good kid and maybe even a hard worker but he lacks that fire and fight that 'Dola and Edelman etc. do.

A man named Brady said:

I felt so bad for gronk in that afc title game. He's an all time great trancendent talent being surrounded by mediocre role model players. Dude was getting double and triple teamed in that 4th quarter because no one gives a damn about Danny amendola and Brandon Lafell.

Brady is like **** it, Gronk with 3 guys all over him>>>>>everyone else

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except the final play

Ivan said:

I thought he was as ineffective as a WR could be. Watching him it felt as though he made no big plays and had no YAC whatsoever.IIRC his YAC was less than a yard per reception, in other words he fell over upon receiving the ball. Belichick apparently wasn't impressed either as he cut him as soon as he could. That signing was simply bad advice from MacDaniels.

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I hear what you're saying, although Belichick didn't really cut him as soon as he could. He tried hard to bring him back on a cheaper deal and Llyod didn't want to do that.

Deus Irae said:

LaFell is what he is. He's a WR3 kind of guy who, in 2014, was lifted to a higher level of play, and a career season, by Brady. Why do we just accept that as being good enough?

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because it is

We don't need to replace LaFell with a Super Bowl (pro-bowl) receiver to win the Super Bowl. If we can, fine. There are better uses for our cap money.

Just a guess, but I wonder if the Patriots difficulty in drafting wide receivers isn't related to the personality profile of many of the top players at that position - egotistical prima donnas who are not the low-key, self effacing players that Belichick likes. The last very good wide receiver that the Patriots drafted was Terry Glenn. He was pre-Belichick and did not last long in the Belichick era. Nor does Irving Fryar fit the mold, though he had a long NFL career. He was the number one overall pick in 1984, but missed the 1986 AFC Championship because he was wounded in knife fight with his wife, later was arrested on a weapons charge, and was recently found guilty of mortgage fraud.