The 2016-2017 Offense

BradyFTW! said:

The problem with Solder-Shaq-Stork-Jackson-Vollmer, IMO, is that none of the three guys in the middle were very good this year.

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AndyJohnson said:

I don't think Andrews belongs in the league. If we had any kind of depth along the OL he wouldn't have made the roster.

Stork a solid C who played like crap, and a bunch of guys who would not have started on more than a couple of NFL teams, and others who most would have cut. It was THAT bad.

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betterthanthealternative said:

We'll know what the coaches think as we watch them make moves over the coming months. That'll be by far the best evidence of how much of this past season's failures were due to player capability.

We are all making observations from the cheap seats, having no idea what went on between coaches and players at any time before and during the games. There's no way to measure how "dangerously" the team is living by counting on better performance in the future from the current players. It is emotionally satisfying to make bold statements of certainty, but they are as empty as a campaign speech in Iowa.

By far the best outcome for the team is for the current players to become All-Pro's next year, and for all of the problems this last year to have no relevance to their potential going forward other than as a hard lesson learned.

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tasmlab said:

Is Devlin back?

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captain stone said:

I'd rather have Iosefa (or a reasonable facsimile) than Devlin, but if it's Devlin who makes the Opening
Day 53 I won't complain, too much.

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BradyFTW! said:

The problem with Solder-Shaq-Stork-Jackson-Vollmer, IMO, is that none of the three guys in the middle were very good this year. Stork could well get back to his 2014 level, and Shaq and Jackson should improve from their rookie seasons, but to bank on any two of those things happening is living dangerously, let alone all three. And when the health of a 39 year old QB hangs in the balance, I'd really rather we didn't live too dangerously.

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ivanvamp said:

One huge question is what are we likely to get from Andrews/Stork/Jackson/Mason in terms of improvement. Stork will be in his third year, clearly regressed from his rookie season, and yet he was very good his rookie year. So there's talent there. Mason has tons of physical ability, but never played in a passing offense, so this year was a huge adjustment for him. Can he get to the next level? Who knows. I think it's quite possible. Jackson...not sure. Andrews was an adequate backup this year and think he can continue to be that.

The problem is that in every spot on the line this year the Patriots were playing backup caliber players.

LT - Vollmer - solid at RT, but backup level at LT (because Solder was out)
G - Kline or Jackson - backup level
C - Stork or Andrews - backup level (Stork in 2014 was starter material, but he had a backup level year)
G - Mason - backup level
RT - Cannon or Fleming - good grief, they were AWFUL

So Solder and Vollmer being healthy alone takes the tackles from LT (backup) and RT (godawful) to LT (quality) and RT (quality). That is a MASSIVE improvement from this year.

On the interior, without any additions, you're hoping the young guys improve and that Stork gets at least back to his 2014 form. I think Mason can improve and I think Stork can return to form, which means you're talking quality LT, starter C, quality RT, and then hoping the two guard positions can be improved by Mason improving and also by adding a quality veteran (which is what I think they should do).

The injuries KILLED this offensive line.

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mgteich said:

No big deal wither way

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robertweathers said:

I hear you.

The question is Wendy, Andrews and Kline good enough as backups/starters. I think Andrews and Kline are in spurts. Not sure what Wendy's health is. When healthy he can start and do ok.

Is there a Brian Watters out there to be had or will a OG with a 1st round grade drop to the 2nd/3rd round? Doubtful but you never know.

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BradyFTW! said:

I think they're all good enough to be backups, but the problem is at guard we have 4+ guys we know can be serviceable backups, and nobody that's a slam-dunk starter. Sort of a "we have the quantity,but we need the quality" deal type deal.

I know very little about this draft class's o-line prospects, but even if the Pats do take one with their first pick I still think it's a need that has to be addressed in FA. This past season was a great example of the dangers of relying on rookies to step in and start right away. Sometimes a guy like Stork pulls it off, but it's not something that should be relied on.

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mgteich said:

So, Wendell has greatly diminished in ability since he was our SB starter? If so, then belichick will hire someone better.

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varjao said:

A significant upgrade at WR is in order

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PatsfanCP said:

Matt forte or Doug Martin are a must have

A real lock would Lamar miller the patriots won't get him but he would be deadly in this offense

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ivanvamp said:

One huge question is what are we likely to get from Andrews/Stork/Jackson/Mason in terms of improvement. Stork will be in his third year, clearly regressed from his rookie season, and yet he was very good his rookie year. So there's talent there. Mason has tons of physical ability, but never played in a passing offense, so this year was a huge adjustment for him. Can he get to the next level? Who knows. I think it's quite possible. Jackson...not sure. Andrews was an adequate backup this year and think he can continue to be that.

The problem is that in every spot on the line this year the Patriots were playing backup caliber players.

LT - Vollmer - solid at RT, but backup level at LT (because Solder was out)
G - Kline or Jackson - backup level
C - Stork or Andrews - backup level (Stork in 2014 was starter material, but he had a backup level year)
G - Mason - backup level
RT - Cannon or Fleming - good grief, they were AWFUL

So Solder and Vollmer being healthy alone takes the tackles from LT (backup) and RT (godawful) to LT (quality) and RT (quality). That is a MASSIVE improvement from this year.

On the interior, without any additions, you're hoping the young guys improve and that Stork gets at least back to his 2014 form. I think Mason can improve and I think Stork can return to form, which means you're talking quality LT, starter C, quality RT, and then hoping the two guard positions can be improved by Mason improving and also by adding a quality veteran (which is what I think they should do).

The injuries KILLED this offensive line.

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mgteich said:

1) The LG will play much better with Solder at LT.
2) We all agree on the need to sign a veteran OG.

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AzPatsFan said:

What exactly did you expect out of three rookie interior linemen? Having gained experience by starting, something seldom seen in a great line, they will be much improved next season.

The Patriots had no competent RBs by the time of the Playoffs. Period.

Jackson was done before he entered retirement and never emerged on his brief return. That needs to be improved and by experience rookie RBs can and do perform. Aside from the injured Soder, there was not a single First round player on Offense.

BB has been constructing an awesome Defense for the past few years, and rightly so, and relying on Brady to push the Offense forward enough. The injuries on Offense proved impossible to overcome for the very shallow Offense.

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AzPatsFan said:

1) We agree.

2) We ALL don't agree! The present interior Offensive line looks very good for the future.

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AndyJohnson said:

Based on what? Hope? Prayer?

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