OT: Megatron to retire, per ESPN

Gronk · Jan 31, 2016

I don't think so, on their own. He's Hall-of-Very-Very-Good or Hall-of-Coulda-Been-Great because, if he's really done, he doesn't have the longevity to pile up the compilation stats (which are admittedly debatable and dubious, but nonetheless often a basis for admission), nor does he have the kind of definitive historic "moment" that puts guys like Namath in, nor does he have a truly long streak of dominant play on a sub par team like his franchise-mate Barry Sanders. A couple years with Tommy could fix that ****, quick like.

But especially in the rearviewmirror, if you look at his numbers 5 or 10 years from now, once a lot of these other guys have stacked similar Rec/Yds/TD numbers...I don't know. You could realistically argue that Welker was equally or more dominant with the production at the position over approximately the same time period. Anyone wanna put Wes in the HOF with no questions asked?

Off The Grid · Jan 31, 2016

Gronk said:
Of course, if he's carefully crafting a route out of Detroit and to, say, Foxboro then I shall welcome him with open arms.

And probably a medium-sized boner.

OK, then.

That...was an OverShare.

Gronk · Jan 31, 2016

Off The Grid said:
OK, then.

That...was an OverShare.

Oh I see...you are offended at my (semi) boner directed at an American BLACK MAN, Grid? PERHAPS YOU'RE IN THE WRONG THREAD

SalemPats · Jan 31, 2016

Gronk said:
HOF talent, absolutely but I don't know if it's sure-fire he's played in some times of pretty inflated WR numbers and if he bows out now and all these catch and yardage numbers keep exploding he can pretty easily become the Andre Reed (or similar) of his generation. Reed got in, eventually, of course but he was also clearly one of the best players on 4 SB teams and a perennial playoff team. Megatron was so good at WR that sometimes...his team almost won a playoff game. It IS different, even if it's unfair. Realistically his production is only marginally better than CHAD Johnson, whom I wouldn't consider a HOF player at all.

For the record if the guy really doesn't want to play - for whatever reason...doesn't care about HOF, just isn't feeling it, not interested in chasing a SB as the be-all/end-all of his existence - then I totally ****ing respect that. Not everybody that plays this game at this level is Brady-level psycho for the game. Sometimes there are players that are absolutely mercurial talents, physically gifted, mentally capable of grasping everything that is expected of them playing the game...but it's just not all they're about. I think this might be one of those cases. Of course, if he's carefully crafting a route out of Detroit and to, say, Foxboro then I shall welcome him with open arms. And probably a medium-sized boner.

I put him as a HOF because there was a period of time where he was the best at his position of the game (that overrides stats for me)

Gronk · Jan 31, 2016

SalemPats said:
I put him as a HOF because there was a period of time where he was the best at his position of the game (that overrides stats for me)

I get it. But "best" is subjective, i.e. for what period of time do you have to be considered the best to be HOF worthy? The HOF cutting room floor is littered with players that were the best for a period of time. Especially at the WR position it's been dicey. Besides the fact that he maybe murdered a guy there's no reason for saying Marvin Harrison wasn't the best for awhile. Cris Carter too. Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Andre Reed, Herman Moore, Reggie Wayne, Moss, Welker, on and on. There's a ton of guys at WR that aren't getting in, or that had to wait before they got in because the changing volume of stats and proliferation of great players at the position made people/voters unsure what "great" really meant.

Sterling Sharpe is largely forgotten to time but he helped make an MVP candidate of both early Brett Favre AND Don Majkowski and was absolutely the best for a few years covering the bridge of the 80's/90's racking up stats and wins in a remarkably similar situation to Megatron.

I think Moss should be a lock but I also think that the 23 TD record is a (Trump voice) 'YUUUUGE' reason he's considered a lock. He's also got a highlight reel that would put literally every other NFL WR in history to shame - circus catches, big plays, all that...starting with dropping his sack on the Packers D as a rookie and scoring like 19 TDs and ending (figuratively) with the 2007 season. But take the NE year(s) off his NFL life and he's probably waiting at the altar, like Calvin likely will be if he retires now.

JMC00 · Feb 1, 2016

lol Detroit though.. Making two of the greatest at their position retire early.

festy1986 · Feb 1, 2016

Calvin will be a patriot.

Nuff said.

PF_SU · Feb 1, 2016

Gronk said:
But take the NE year(s) off his NFL life and he's probably waiting at the altar, like Calvin likely will be if he retires now.

If so it would be a crime. Take the Patriots years off his resume and Moss is still one of the best WR to ever play the game. He started his career with six straight 1000 yard seasons and if you just count the nine seasons from 1998 to 2006 he still has 10,700 receiving yards (good for 38 all time) and 101 receiving TDs (good for 8 all time). Moss in those nine seasons was a more disruptive force than Johnson was in the nine seasons from 2007 to 2015.

Now, 2006 Moss didn't want to retire, so just say he never ended up in NE and bounced around as a journeyman with only bad QBs to pass him the ball, playing for another five seasons. Tack on an average of 500 yards per season (which is incredibly low) and four TDs a year. That would end up with a total of 13,200 receiving yards and 121 TDs. The yardage total would rank 16th all-time and the TD total 6th all time. That's HOF material, period.

RobertWeathers · Feb 1, 2016

Froob said:
Yep, and I like Jeter and Ortiz but **** is getting over the top. Don't be giving gifts to opposing players c'mon man...

The Ortiz retirement tour will be unbearable.

Froob · Feb 1, 2016

robertweathers said:
The Ortiz retirement tour will be unbearable.

Yep, and Ortiz claimed he wasn't going to do this as I recall. Sure congratulate the guy after your final game with him and the fans can clap for him if they want to but, I'm not giving gifts to anybody on any other team especially rivals **** that. We're here to win. Was embarrassed for the Sox for what they did with Jeter.

Kontradiction · Feb 1, 2016

robertweathers said:
The Ortiz retirement tour will be unbearable.

The Kobe one has been as well.

RobertWeathers · Feb 1, 2016

Froob said:
Yep, and Ortiz claimed he wasn't going to do this as I recall. Sure congratulate the guy after your final game with him and the fans can clap for him if they want to but, I'm not giving gifts to anybody on any other team especially rivals **** that. We're here to win. Was embarrassed for the Sox for what they did with Jeter.

Yea it kinda depends on what the player wants and their status.

I'm ok with taking a night to honor a great player. Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Ray Bourque, Cam Neely, Pedro, etc.

I am ok with a hosting team to do a quick "Thanks" to a legendary player. I was actually ok with the Sox honoring Jeter. Lot of battles with those guys.

The Kobe Farewell Tour is nauseating.

For Papi its going to be every damn city and a couple different events at Fenway this year. Then there will be a night in the 2017 season. Then there will be the number going up. That'll get a ceremony. Then there will be the HoF induction ceremony. Thats another one.

When Yaz ended his career he jogged around Fenway after the last game of the year, waved and high fived the fans after the game. That was it. He didn't need the ego boosting.

IllegalContact · Feb 1, 2016

good for him.......get out before your bell gets rung and doesn't stop ringing

you'll be seeing more and more of this

I could see Gronk bailing at 30

Raymond · Feb 1, 2016

festy1986 said:
Calvin will be a patriot.

Nuff said.

Please. If that happened Goodell and his minions would manufacture another gate to dump on the pats.

Ivan · Feb 1, 2016

robertweathers said:
The Ortiz retirement tour will be unbearable.

I get why Red Stood fans love him but I can't stand the guy. There is no baseball player I dislike more or have less respect for.

TinhWoodhead · Feb 1, 2016

festy1986 said:
Calvin will be a patriot.

Nuff said.

Moss 2.0?

50-yard-line · Feb 1, 2016

robertweathers said:
Yea it kinda depends on what the player wants and their status.

I'm ok with taking a night to honor a great player. Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Ray Bourque, Cam Neely, Pedro, etc.

I am ok with a hosting team to do a quick "Thanks" to a legendary player. I was actually ok with the Sox honoring Jeter. Lot of battles with those guys.

The Kobe Farewell Tour is nauseating.

For Papi its going to be every damn city and a couple different events at Fenway this year. Then there will be a night in the 2017 season. Then there will be the number going up. That'll get a ceremony. Then there will be the HoF induction ceremony. Thats another one.

When Yaz ended his career he jogged around Fenway after the last game of the year, waved and high fived the fans after the game. That was it. He didn't need the ego boosting.

Oh God, that Jeter tour...

Don't get me wrong: I was at his last Fenway game and thought it was a very cool event, and that the Sox did well...but I'm bitter.

At the beginning of the year, I could have sold that September weekend of Yankee games for enough to cover most of the season ticket price...but my wife wanted to go, and they were really her tickets. Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! By the time the game neared, everyone was burned out on the Jeter thing, the Red Sox sucked, and I might have gotten face value for the tickets, tops. Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!

SalemPats · Feb 1, 2016

Gronk said:
I get it. But "best" is subjective, i.e. for what period of time do you have to be considered the best to be HOF worthy? The HOF cutting room floor is littered with players that were the best for a period of time. Especially at the WR position it's been dicey. Besides the fact that he maybe murdered a guy there's no reason for saying Marvin Harrison wasn't the best for awhile. Cris Carter too. Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Andre Reed, Herman Moore, Reggie Wayne, Moss, Welker, on and on. There's a ton of guys at WR that aren't getting in, or that had to wait before they got in because the changing volume of stats and proliferation of great players at the position made people/voters unsure what "great" really meant.

Sterling Sharpe is largely forgotten to time but he helped make an MVP candidate of both early Brett Favre AND Don Majkowski and was absolutely the best for a few years covering the bridge of the 80's/90's racking up stats and wins in a remarkably similar situation to Megatron.

I think Moss should be a lock but I also think that the 23 TD record is a (Trump voice) 'YUUUUGE' reason he's considered a lock. He's also got a highlight reel that would put literally every other NFL WR in history to shame - circus catches, big plays, all that...starting with dropping his sack on the Packers D as a rookie and scoring like 19 TDs and ending (figuratively) with the 2007 season. But take the NE year(s) off his NFL life and he's probably waiting at the altar, like Calvin likely will be if he retires now.

For me (just my opinion) if for a period of time you were the best in the game at your position you are a 1st ballot HOF (regardless of stats). In terms of WR not in the HOF, I have Megatron and Moss as 1st ballot HOF, and Marvin Harrison should be in there as well.

RobertWeathers · Feb 1, 2016

Ivan said:
I get why Red Stood fans love him but I can't stand the guy. There is no baseball player I dislike more or have less respect for.

Dislike I get. He always seems to ***** about his contract and the time when he squawked about not getting an RBI was brutal. He was great in the postseason. Sox do not win 3 WS w/o him.

Respect? What has he done?

RobertWeathers · Feb 1, 2016

50-yard-line said:
Oh God, that Jeter tour...

Don't get me wrong: I was at his last Fenway game and thought it was a very cool event, and that the Sox did well...but I'm bitter.

At the beginning of the year, I could have sold that September weekend of Yankee games for enough to cover most of the season ticket price...but my wife wanted to go, and they were really her tickets. Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! By the time the game neared, everyone was burned out on the Jeter thing, the Red Sox sucked, and I might have gotten face value for the tickets, tops. Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Yea that does suck.

OT: Megatron to retire, per ESPN

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