The 2016-2017 Offense

"OL Solder, ???, Mason, Stork, Jackson, Kline"

You expect Vollmer to move on ? You don't even mention Andrews? The Pats are set for the next two years with Kline? KLINE-STILE?

I must have missed something or else you put little thought into the offensive linemen going forward..Vollmer signed a deal in 2013 through 2017 .Clarify please.

My Borges-style prediction for the day that I will only be held accountable when true if not I will predict the same in 2017:

2016 Patriots will score 700 points. Book it.

(If true, I shall bump this on the day in which they surpass 700 pts...if false, well who else is really gonna bother to look for this?)

700 MOTHER ****ING POINTS

May all Hyphenators be electrocuted...slowly.

mgteich said:

LaFell is on the books for $2.675M of new money.

Amendola is on the books for $5.4M of new money. Everyone is suggesting a discount. I suggest $2M to $3.4M of new money

Why would I pay Amendola more, in addition to his being able to return punts.

2015

LAFELL 74 targets, 37 receptions, 515 yards and 0 TD's

AMENDOLA 87 targets, 65 receptions, 648 yards and 3 TD's

ANALYSIS
A) The total number of targets is similar.

B) The last player who had production like Lafell (Lloyd) never played a gain.

C) I agree with your suggestion that we wait with regard to LaFell (as I suggested when we got rid of Lloyd.

D) However, I believe that Amendola's 2015 production was better than LaFell's. In the end, one isn't paid for past production. I believe that Amendola is much more important to the offense than LaFell.

E) BOTTOM LINE
I would be fine with the same receivers in 2016 as in 2015, with better health. Adding Martin was a big plus.

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The two area's of need on this team is OL & WR.

Edelman is primarily a slot receiver & he is a great player who hits 30 this year. Hopefully we can get another couple of healthy years out of him at the top of his game.

I really don't understand the love for Amendola. He has 13 career touchdowns in 7 seasons (less than 2 per season). He also cannot be be counted onto stay healthy. He is injury prone. That being said... I wouldn't mind him as a part time player at a low salary.

LaFell..... He needs to take a pay cut just to get to camp.

Martin.... Not a bad 4th or 5th WR & his salary is not breaking the bank.

We need two new starting receivers who can separate from the defenders in man to man coverage &
Take the pressure off Gronk & Edelman.

Adding at least 1 starting quality WR who can separate is a must.

I would like to see Amendola restructure and stay with the team. LaFell I'm on the fence about because he was solid in 2014 but hurt most of this year and just looked bad. I wonder if he can get healthy and get back to normal. We can at least bring him through training camp before needing to cut him right? I'm then curious about Dobson, Harper, Tyms, and Gibson. Interesting to see who, if any, stick with this team.

patriot1136 said:

I would like to see Amendola restructure and stay with the team. LaFell I'm on the fence about because he was solid in 2014 but hurt most of this year and just looked bad. I wonder if he can get healthy and get back to normal. We can at least bring him through training camp before needing to cut him right? I'm then curious about Dobson, Harper, Tyms, and Gibson. Interesting to see who, if any, stick with this team.

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If any of the latter people stick, the Patriots will have done a lousy job of upgrading.

mgteich said:

Brady has his offense in place for the next two years. As always, Belichick will look for upgrades.

OFFENSE FOR 2017 IN PLACE
QB Brady, Garrapolo
WR Edelman, Amendola, Martin, Harper
TE Gronkowski, Williams (Derby)
RB Lewis, White, Gaffney
OL Solder, ???, Mason, Stork, Jackson, Kline

Our 2016/2017 needs are
#1 OT
#2 OT
#3 veteran OG
#4 a vet running back
#5 an addition WR

We have Vollmer, Cannon and Fleming at OT now.

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You are handing jobs to Mason, Stork and Jackson, the IOL that may have been the worst in the NFL, not concerned with upgrading on that, and you have Vollmer needing 2 replacements? Huh?

I really don't care where the players come from.

Needs:
-Intermediate threat opposite JE: I was perfectly content with 2014 LaFell. Get that again.
-TE#2: Needs to be and OK blocker and OK receiver. Chandler was MIA in the passing game
-Top 20 RB who can make players miss: The Pats o-line will never be the 1993 Cowboys. They need a player who can run hard, with power and make the 1st player miss.

I don't think Solder-Shaq-Stork-Jackson-Vollmer is a bad line. If what Reiss said is true which he expects Scar to come back then that'll be a very positive thing for this line and Shaq/Jackson/Stork development and game-day preparations.

AndyJohnson said:

You are handing jobs to Mason, Stork and Jackson, the IOL that may have been the worst in the NFL, not concerned with upgrading on that, and you have Vollmer needing 2 replacements? Huh?

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As always, when I read your posts, I need to re-read my own.

1) I have signing a veteran OG, just like everyone else, Wendell or an upgrade.

2) I do indeed think that between Stork and Andrews we are fine at center. We could bring in competition, but that is a lower level need.

3) We need an upgrade to Cannon who might start next year.

4) I believe that we need an upgrade to Fleming.

5) I like carrying 4 OT's, given the injury histories, Vollmer's contract, and that we occasionally use an OT as an additional blocker.

mgteich said:

As always, when I read your posts, I need to re-read my own.

1) I have signing a veteran OG, just like everyone else, Wendell or an upgrade.

2) I do indeed think that between Stork and Andrews we are fine at center. We could bring in competition, but that is a lower level need.

3) We need an upgrade to Cannon who might start next year.

4) I believe that we need an upgrade to Fleming.

5) I like carrying 4 OT's, given the injury histories, Vollmer's contract, and that we occasionally use an OT as an additional blocker.

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You have G AFTER 2 tackles.
Why would Cannon start over Solder and Vollmer?
Why would the 4th OT, to replace Cannon or Fleming be the teams #2 need?
I'm OK with Stork, but I think Andrews will probably not be returning.
I can envision better than the crappy C play we got this year.
I cannot envision good G play without changes. One would be these players to improve. Under no circumstances would I put the 2016 season on the line for that hope.

The IOL was horrific this year. "add a veteran like Wendell" says 'continue to suck'

robertweathers said:

I really don't care where the players come from.

Needs:
-Intermediate threat opposite JE: I was perfectly content with 2014 LaFell. Get that again.
-TE#2: Needs to be and OK blocker and OK receiver. Chandler was MIA in the passing game
-Top 20 RB who can make players miss: The Pats o-line will never be the 1993 Cowboys. They need a player who can run hard, with power and make the 1st player miss.

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What we really need is the RB who can be effective when defenses overplay the pass. Woodhead has one season when he was dominant in that role, and a couple others he was OK. Faulk was very good.
Vereen never was that guy, nor is White. Lewis is, but can he be relied upon for a full season? I'd like to pick up a Lewis Jr, and it can be a UDFA. We need a smallish guy who can catch the ball, but also has some power to run the shot gun draw, because a decent RB would kill it doing that in our O.
Of course we need a traditional RB too, but a Blount type of mediocre would be fine.

I don't think Solder-Shaq-Stork-Jackson-Vollmer is a bad line. If what Reiss said is true which he expects Scar to come back then that'll be a very positive thing for this line and Shaq/Jackson/Stork development and game-day preparations.

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We need to bring in at least 1, and maybe 2 starting caliber, reliable OGs. Lets hope Jackson and Mason become more than that, but lets not risk a season on that hope. If they can't beat out that guy(s) thank God we brought in decent to replace suck.

Solder is a fine LT. Vollmer is not a good LT but is a fine RT. Both being healthy instantly upgrades both tackle positions. I think, tipping the snap aside, Stork is a fine center. The guards are problematic, but have potential. Jackson and Mason have upside, and of course more experience should help them. I'd love to see NE draft two OT this year, because Solder and Vollmer are getting up there in age.

Clearly the OL is by far the #1 problem with this team, but I think it pretty easily can be upgraded.

If 2014 Lafell is in there somewhere..i am fine with it just like others have said.

AndyJohnson said:

What we really need is the RB who can be effective when defenses overplay the pass. Woodhead has one season when he was dominant in that role, and a couple others he was OK. Faulk was very good.
Vereen never was that guy, nor is White. Lewis is, but can he be relied upon for a full season? I'd like to pick up a Lewis Jr, and it can be a UDFA. We need a smallish guy who can catch the ball, but also has some power to run the shot gun draw, because a decent RB would kill it doing that in our O.
Of course we need a traditional RB too, but a Blount type of mediocre would be fine.

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I'm going into 2016 hoping Lewis will be 100% but not expecting it.

I'd like (wouldnt we all...) a Le'Veon Bell/Robert Edwards type. Enough speed to size to hit the line quick or catch a ball in the flat and make a guy miss with a cut but also enough power to absorb a hit and move forward. That way if Lewis goes down again, you have this guy.

Blount was serviceable but almost useless vs speedy/stout d-lines and hes not getting any quicker.

AndyJohnson said:

We need to bring in at least 1, and maybe 2 starting caliber, reliable OGs. Lets hope Jackson and Mason become more than that, but lets not risk a season on that hope. If they can't beat out that guy(s) thank God we brought in decent to replace suck.

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I agree.

In Shaq's last two games, against KC and Denver, he was switched to RG, where he played at Georgia Tech. I thought he played pretty well in both games and the so-called experts film reviews seem to back that up. He's extremely athletic, intelligent and has tons of upside. He seems part of the solution, not part of the problem.

robertweathers said:

I really don't care where the players come from.

Needs:
-Intermediate threat opposite JE: I was perfectly content with 2014 LaFell. Get that again.
-TE#2: Needs to be and OK blocker and OK receiver. Chandler was MIA in the passing game
-Top 20 RB who can make players miss: The Pats o-line will never be the 1993 Cowboys. They need a player who can run hard, with power and make the 1st player miss.

I don't think Solder-Shaq-Stork-Jackson-Vollmer is a bad line. If what Reiss said is true which he expects Scar to come back then that'll be a very positive thing for this line and Shaq/Jackson/Stork development and game-day preparations.

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Well stated, RW.

The guard situation would be 1000% clearer if we knew what to expect from the youngsters as they move into the next year. None of us has a clue about that. Hopefully the coaching staff has a pretty good idea, with the caveat that the OL coach isn't on the scene yet and will have a lot of catching up to do.

Best case: the current players will make a lot of progress, and the coaching staff depends on this, no more resources are put into the interior line, and they play very well next year.

Worst case: the current players don't make progress, but he coaches expect them to so no more players are brought in, and we have a serious weakness next year.

Middle ground: one or two middle quality vets are brought in as insurance. Hopefully this doesn't chew up resources (cap space, draft picks, scouting and evaluation time, roster spots) that would otherwise be dedicated to the Needs identified above. That's the key issue: where to put the limited resources, given that every investment is a gamble? We can't intelligently talk about investing in any one position without accounting for the impact it would have on the others.

Off The Grid said:

May all Hyphenators be electrocuted...slowly.

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OTG, I admit to being a hypen-user at times. Why do you wish me this ugly fate?

mgteich said:

Brady has his offense in place for the next two years. As always, Belichick will look for upgrades.

OFFENSE FOR 2017 IN PLACE
QB Brady, Garrapolo
WR Edelman, Amendola, Martin, Harper
TE Gronkowski, Williams (Derby)
RB Lewis, White, Gaffney
OL Solder, ???, Mason, Stork, Jackson, Kline

Our 2016/2017 needs are
#1 OT
#2 OT
#3 veteran OG
#4 a vet running back
#5 an addition WR

We have Vollmer, Cannon and Fleming at OT now.

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Is Devlin back?