McCann: Going to be a very tense hearing on Deflategate.

Rhodey · Jan 31, 2016

No one (currently) filling the role of Commissioner any league- in any sport -has the right to harass teams and individuals.

If they believe they do, then perhaps, they should be working in another venue...like organized crime?!

PatsFanSince74 · Jan 31, 2016

rochrist said:
What exactly did he say that was wrong?

My comment was that the article is bad because it states the obvious and is passed off as "insight."

However, if you insist that I point out things that were "wrong," McCann misstates that the team is still led by Kessler and fails to note that the primary respondent is no longer Kessler, but Winston & Strawn's Appellate Partner, Steffen Johnson. Kessler and Greenspan's names appear on the right side of the cover page of the Appeal Brief (I assume you have read it), or in the "second seat." His article might have been insightful had he done some actual homework and compared Johnson with Clement. But he did not.

He also fails to note that the NFLPA has added Andrew Tulumello, an Appellate Partner from Gibson Dunn. It would have been interesting and useful if he had done some background research and contrasted and compared Tulumello and Johnson with the NFL's high profile team. That would have provided the reader with insight, instead of a partially accurate regurgitation of the obvious.

That is all bad or lazy reporting and I fully stand by my original post.

Ivan · Jan 31, 2016

PatsFanSince74 said:
...and the Players will strike for as long as it takes when the CBA is up for renewal, so his victory would be Pyrrhic.

Somehow I get the sense that doesn't bother then at all they just want the win and will do literally anything to get it.

Ivan · Jan 31, 2016

PatsFanSince74 said:
My comment was that the article is bad because it states the obvious and is passed off as "insight."

However, if you insist that I point out things that were "wrong," McCann misstates that the team is still led by Kessler and fails to note that the primary respondent is no longer Kessler, but Winston & Strawn's Appellate Partner, Steffen Johnson. Kessler and Greenspan's names appear on the right side of the cover page of the Appeal Brief (I assume you have read it), or in the "second seat." His article might have been insightful had he done some actual homework and compared Johnson with Clement. But he did not.

He also fails to note that the NFLPA has added Andrew Tulumello, an Appellate Partner from Gibson Dunn. It would have been interesting and useful if he had done some background research and contrasted and compared Tulumello and Johnson with the NFL's high profile team. That would have provided the reader with insight, instead of a partially accurate regurgitation of the obvious.

That is all bad or lazy reporting and I fully stand by my original post.

Really interesting take. I should have realized it would not be Kessler handling the appeal but wishful thinking got the best of me as I associate Kessler with kicking the league ass. What is your take on Bradys appeal team? I'm guessing they are good because I can't imagine Kessler handing off to someone who isn't, but getting someone as high profile as Clement wasnt going to be possible as he was Solicitor General.

Edit-Just looked Johnson up, he's big time and about as good a choice to go up against Clement as one could hope to find. He is basically an up and coming superstar with extensive experience in the highest courts despite his relative youth. I feel really good about Bradys chances with Johnson representing him.

QuantumMechanic · Jan 31, 2016

...and the Players will strike for as long as it takes when the CBA is up for renewal, so his victory would be Pyrrhic.

It's nice for us fans to say that, but I don't buy it for a second. First, they won't be able to successfully strike over anything. Sure, maybe for a couple of weeks, but once the lack of paychecks kicks in, they'll cave.

Second, they're not going to strike over that. I wish I could remember where I read it, but some months ago an ex-player had an excellent article somewhere pointing out why they won't. Primary reason was that the players view it as "won't happen to me" and are much more concerned about working conditions, $, etc.

Jackson 2 · Jan 31, 2016

XLIX said:

I'm guessing you're about 15 years old.

XLIX · Jan 31, 2016

Jackson 2 said:
I'm guessing you're about 15 years old.

For your sake, you'd better hope that's not true because if it is, then a 15 year old is currently making you look reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally stupid.

Tell us, what's the maturity level of someone who says "before you get your little weenie in a bunch about being insulted, realize what an intransigent dink you are."? Is that the vernacular employed by a mature adult talking with someone whom, by your own admission, you think is 15 years old?

Jackson 2 · Jan 31, 2016

XLIX said:
For your sake, you'd better hope that's not true because if it is, then a 15 year old is currently making you look reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally stupid.

Tell us, what's the maturity level of someone who says "before you get your little weenie in a bunch about being insulted, realize what an intransigent dink you are."? Is that the vernacular employed by a mature adult talking with someone whom, by your own admission, you think is 15 years old?

My mistake. My 15 year old guess was a maturity level estimate. I'm sure your chronological age is at least 6 months higher than that.

XLIX · Jan 31, 2016

Jackson 2 said:
My mistake. My 15 year old guess was a maturity level estimate. I'm sure your chronological age is at least 6 months higher than that.

And what would you say about the maturity level of someone who lets himself get owned by a 15 year old? Because if you're right about my age, then that's what is happening to you right now.

Jlaff · Jan 31, 2016

patfanken said:
Pardon me but I don't have the time read all 5 pages, but isn't the REAL point of the NFL case that it doesn't matter if Brady is innocent or not. The CBA gives the right of the commissioner to mete out punishment, hear the appeal,, rule on the appeal, and there is nothing any court can do to suspend that judgement.

Goodell wants that kind of power to wield over the players and owners. That is why he is fighting so hard, long past any logical standard as it pertains to the events of the AFCCG. THAT is why the NFLPA is fighting so hard to oppose it.

Guilt or innocence DOESN'T matter. Truth or lies, DOESN'T matter. The NFL is hoping the appeals court will suspend logic and justice and focus solely on a strict interpretation of the law and a very NARROW presentation of precedence, even if it makes no sense in this case.

The shear stupidity and injustice Berman found in the league's case literally forced him to step beyond the usual bound of labor law to lash out at the injustice of the attack on Brady's good name and unfair punishment. Their claim that Brady DIRECTED a conspiracy to deflate footballs to gain some kind of unfair advantage is so ludicrous only hard core haters believes it any more. Instead their claims have morphed into a claim that, fair or unfair, they have the legal right to do what they did. Guilt, innocence, or plain old common sense have no place in this appeal.

This is the rabbit hole that the league has run down to gain their pound of flesh. It is a symptom of how F'd up our legal process has become that they even have a 10% chance of winning. In one respect I almost hope they win, because it would force Brady to file the defamation suit that would finally bring down this toxic cabal. Most likely they won't win, and will just wait for the public to forget about their fraud and move on to the next thing., and pretend nothing ever happened.

From Patfanken... Just lol

patfanken · Jan 31, 2016

Rob0729 said:
The CBA gives Goodell the authority to be judge, jury, and executioner; but it doesn't allow him to run a bogus investigation and a kangaroo court. He still must adhere to the fairness doctrine. There are still laws of the land that supersede the CBA and the NFL violated them in this case.

It is funny. Federal courts overturn a arbitration rulings only about 5-10% of the times. In the case of the NFL, it is about 90% of the time. The only time the NFL won is in the Starcap case and that was on a second appeal.

As Judge Doty has said, I don't think Goodell understands the NFL's CBA.

Oh, I don't disagree with you, Rob. I think you misunderstood, or I articulated it badly. I was just trying to point out what the NFL's position was, or at least what they were going with and why. They basically think that anything they do is covered by the CBA, and clearly it doesn't. They made several fatal errors and outright blunders in the Brady's case that caused it to blow up on them.

What is horrifying is that if they were just mildly competent they COULD have won this case, even though Brady was clearly innocent of the charges. That is how unbalanced the law is in favor of management, and as you point out that while overturning any arbitration case is very rare in the business community in general, the NFL loses 90% of their's.

You would think that might just figure out that whatever they are doing is might be the wrong strategy. THAT is the level of incompetence that exists at 354 Park Ave these days. You and I could do a better job for them. In fact I'm getting pissed off thinking they are paying millions in legal fees to idiots that can't win a game that is already rigged in their favor, while I'm struggling to get by in retirement.

Life really isn't fair is it.

Ivan · Jan 31, 2016

Jlaff said:
From Patfanken... Just lol

Lmao, I missed that. Ken's OP's generally run 5 pages.

Ivan · Jan 31, 2016

QuantumMechanic said:
It's nice for us fans to say that, but I don't buy it for a second. First, they won't be able to successfully strike over anything. Sure, maybe for a couple of weeks, but once the lack of paychecks kicks in, they'll cave.

Second, they're not going to strike over that. I wish I could remember where I read it, but some months ago an ex-player had an excellent article somewhere pointing out why they won't. Primary reason was that the players view it as "won't happen to me" and are much more concerned about working conditions, $, etc.

I agree. It's going to be interesting to see how this appeal plays out. If they are only getting a half hour of oral argument it gets harder to see how the NFL gets this overturned. Star power helps in the first person but I doubt it makes much difference reading briefs. It could come down simply to ideology in which case Brady is likely to get screwed, or they could uphold Berman and the question becomes whether the league has the audacity to go to the Supreme's? I honestly don't think they will, I think Mara and others would step in and tell them to fold. We will see, going to be an interesting spring.

Ivan · Jan 31, 2016

As I said to PF74 earlier today, I am very happy to see that the appellate lawyer (Steffen Johnson) Brady has is as good as they get, Brady is in good hands.

PatsFanSince74 · Jan 31, 2016

Ivan said:
Really interesting take. I should have realized it would not be Kessler handling the appeal but wishful thinking got the best of me as I associate Kessler with kicking the league ass. What is your take on Bradys appeal team? I'm guessing they are good because I can't imagine Kessler handing off to someone who isn't, but getting someone as high profile as Clement wasnt going to be possible as he was Solicitor General.

Edit-Just looked Johnson up, he's big time and about as good a choice to go up against Clement as one could hope to find. He is basically an up and coming superstar with extensive experience in the highest courts despite his relative youth. I feel really good about Bradys chances with Johnson representing him.

it's not "wishful thinking." Anybody who knows what they are talking about (and I appreciate and respect very much your comment) understands that the Appellate process is a whole new world.

As amazingly competent as Kessler is, he would, I am sure, be the first to admit that he should not be in the first chair on the Appeal. But McCann completely ignores that in his very bad piece.

That is why McCann's piece was sloppy and superficial.

Radio Silence, BTW, from my critic.

Joker · Jan 31, 2016

at some point, Goodell is going to get his face smashed. NOTHING can stop this from happening, just a matter of time. He' shytting on people he DOESN'T know like it's free or something. THAT is foolish in today's world.

eom · Feb 1, 2016

sb1 said:
I wonder what's next.My money is on NFL says Brady himself took the footballs into the bathroom with a needle.

This must end with a defamation suit. No way they can keep happily falsely painting a worse and worse picture of the story to get the ruling they want without being held accountable.

maybe lawyers can chime in, or have already done so, but the language used up until the court appearances has probably been sufficiently vague as to avoid defamation, and I think you are shielded from that when you're actually in court.
so, the nfl can pretty much say what they want to in court docs, at this point, knowing everything gets broadcast to the public, but wouldn't be on the hook for defamation cuz it's coming from court docs.

which is, no doubt, why we've seen the rhetoric get ratcheted up a couple notches.

The Brandon Five · Feb 1, 2016

Joker said:
at some point, Goodell is going to get his face smashed. NOTHING can stop this from happening, just a matter of time. He' shytting on people he DOESN'T know like it's free or something. THAT is foolish in today's world.

Why, It's not like football players are elite physical specimens who get paid to enact violence against one another....oh, wait.

rainmaker · Feb 1, 2016

We should write the producers of Making a Murderer and have them do a documentary on DeflateGate. It would be epic viewing.

Patsfanin Philly · Feb 1, 2016

Ivan said:
As I said to PF74 earlier today, I am very happy to see that the appellate lawyer (Steffen Johnson) Brady has is as good as they get, Brady is in good hands.

He was involved in the Adrian Peterson appeal....
http://thesportsesquires.com/wp-con...-appeal-brief-adrian-peterson-8th-circuit.pdf
signatory at the end.

McCann: Going to be a very tense hearing on Deflategate.

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