OT: Cam Newton & the race card

dannydyn said:

So? I wouldn't have an issue with a Pats fan doing something to that flag, just like I wouldn't have minded if a Carolina fan did something to those Packers/Seahawks flags. But for your QUARTERBACK to do something like that?!?!? - The league's presumed MVP nonetheless? You ****ing kidding me?!??!? Imagine Brady running over to the end zone, and tearing a 12th Man flag.... HOLY CRAP, the 5hit storm the media would create.... But then again, that's why Tom Brady is Tom 'CLASS ACT' Brady, and Cam Newton is a primadonna *****.

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Right. If some ******* hung a 12 man banner in Foxboro and Brady tore it down, you'd be leading the cheers.

This seems to be a drama/conspiracy where there isn't one. The guy is an awesome quarterback with insane skills both as a leader and an athlete. He has a great smile that is highly marketable and Kids love him. Its sad that this victim narrative is out there to begin with because it makes him out to be a guy you should root for because you should feel pity for him.

rochrist said:

Right. If some ******* hung a 12 man banner in Foxboro and Brady tore it down, you'd be leading the cheers.

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Wrong, if Brady did something like that, I'd be ashamed, as would 99% of the fan base.

rochrist said:

Right. If some ******* hung a 12 man banner in Foxboro and Brady tore it down, you'd be leading the cheers.

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Wrong, if Brady did something like that, I'd be ashamed, as would 99% of the fan base.

HawaiianPatsfan said:

The difference between Gronks & Bradys celebrations in comparison to Cams Celebrations, are the fact that Brady and Gronks are much more natural and genuine, and often include other team mates. Where Newton's are purely choreographed and planned, with the sole intention of bringing all the attention to himself, and boosting his already arrogant and huge ego.

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I dont have an issue with his TD celebrations, I actually like them. A player should celebrate a TD.

My issue with Cam is all the first down celebrations. They just seem so long and drawn out, and planned to get attention to himself. That and all the selfies during a game on the sidelines. That's what bugs me about him. That's not a race thing though. Maybe I'm not used to seeing QB's be that flamboyant.

But the TD's, ripping the banners in his stadium, I'm fine with that.

Joker said:

what brain?

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Everybody has neurons.

Some people actually use them.

Galeb said:

Try taking this test. In fact, I urge everyone to take it.
Race IAT

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I got every question right. I probably got a little faster as time went on just from familiarity with the process and the test said I had a preference to European children over African American which is BS.

everlong said:

I got every question right. I probably got a little faster as time went on just from familiarity with the process and the test said I had a preference to European children over African American which is BS.

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Kudos for being honest. Although I'm not sure the weight given to accuracy vs. speed, I do know that speed in answering is a huge factor. The test isn't designed to test "conscious" beliefs or attitudes. It is designed to test for unconscious bias that socialization and environment imprint on people.

The test certainly isn't perfect, there are certainly some wrong results and it does have critics, but it is fairly widely accepted as legitimate. http://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/07-08/psychometric.aspx

One thing to note is that the numbers from the online, anonymous test don't have nearly the value of the numbers collected in controlled tests/experiments. Several scientists who have conducted good, controlled experiments using this test combined with social/racial information about participants were able to create some very strong predictive models for future test takers. The numbers from some of these tests are very eye opening.

Tunescribe said:

it appears that partnering with someone you share fundamental things in common with -- including race, religion and culture -- is sound advice, giving you better odds of succeeding over the long haul. Most folks would call that basic common sense vs. racism. But if you want to see it as racist, knock yourself out.

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Fencer said:

Why is race a "fundamental thing" to have in common (or not in common) with another person?

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Tunescribe said:

The answer to your question is self-evident (if it truly is a question).

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I'm sure Tunescribe can defend himself, but I'm pretty sure "race" wasn't the "fundamental thing" he was referring to. I'm guessing he meant "fundamental things" such as culture, language, values, mores... You know, those passé conventions that make life in the 21st century so contentious.

And by the way, f--- this argument - I hope Cam and the Panthers crush Manning and the Broncos - I want my first round pick back.

Fencer said:

SOME People who would have voted against Obama no matter what his skin color is hate him more strongly than they would if he were white.

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fixed it for you

A man named Brady said:

A large component of the cam newton hate is that he is viewed as an arrogant black man who doesn't know his place, it also doesnt the help that he plays(and is dominating)the crown jewel white position in team sports of Quarterback. And we all know the history of black Qbs in the NFL and the negative stereotypes that come with it

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Greetings,
Bingo
Celticboy04

This thread makes head hurt

Galeb said:

Your wild guess at my intentions and feelings is far from accurate. Racism doesn't change simply because you use numbers to justify it. It's ironic, people on the opposite end of the spectrum as you consider me racist instead of self-righteous.

Try taking this test. In fact, I urge everyone to take it.
Race IAT

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In other news, I should probably charge my iPad.

Though this also may explain why I wasn't so quick to condemn Trayvon Martin unlike so many others in the cesspool below (not to hijack this thread).

I find it humorous that people think some test can tell one if he/she is racist.

People who are racist know it as do people that aren't. That's simply fact

But hey, people rarely discuss racism, so this thread is refreshing.

PatriotsReign said:

I find it humorous that people think some test can tell one if he/she is racist.

People who are racist know it as do people that aren't.

But hey, people rarely discuss racism, so this thread is refreshing.

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As already pointed out, this test is designed to find unconscious bias, not conscious attitudes. It's more a reflection on the socialization/environment of an individual than the content of their character. AIT tests are used for a variety of things, not just racial bias.

Galeb said:

As already pointed out, this test is designed to find unconscious bias, not conscious attitudes. It's more a reflection on the socialization/environment of an individual than the content of their character. AIT tests are used for a variety of things, not just racial bias.

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Everyone walking this Earth harbors bias. I don't see bias as a huge issue....and I'll welcome the red "X"!

I try not to view these issues with emotion as I accept that humans change very slowly whether we like it or not. At least American men don't tell their women to walk 3 steps behind them! And if they do, they aren't very American

everlong said:

I got every question right. I probably got a little faster as time went on just from familiarity with the process and the test said I had a preference to European children over African American which is BS.

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FAQs (<<< Link)

I read up a little on the test and it has a lot to do with measuring the time variations between your responses.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implic...implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/iatdetails.html (<<< Link)

How does the IAT measure implicit attitudes and stereotypes?
The IAT measures the strength of associations between concepts (e.g., black people, gay people) and evaluations (e.g., good, bad) or stereotypes (e.g., athletic, clumsy). The main idea is that making a response is easier when closely related items share the same response key. We would say that one has an implicit preference for straight people relative to gay people if they are faster to categorize words when Gay People and Bad share a response relative to when Gay People and Good share a response key. See link for more detail.

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An increased preference is not restricted by race.

Might my preference for one group over another be a simple ingroup preference?
A simple preference for the ingroup might partially explain implicit bias for white respondents. However, it is also more than that. There are plenty of tests on which people prefer one group or the other even when they do not belong to either group. For example, Asian participants tend to show an implicit preference for White people relative to Black people. In this sense the IAT might also reflect what is learned from a culture that does not regard Black people as highly as White people. It is also interesting to note that about half of Black participants show an implicit preference for White people relative to Black people… this would certainly not reflect an ingroup bias.

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I think this has a lot to do with years of conditioning via news, tv shows etc.....

Oh, and a preference doesn't mean racists or hate etc just conditioned or prejudiced (which is not racist). People make decisions or judgements based on their conditioning etc without hate.

If my IAT shows that I have an implicit preference for one group over another, does that mean I am prejudiced?
Social psychologists use the word prejudice to describe people who report and approve negative attitudes toward outgroups. Most people who show an implicit preference for one group (e.g., White people) over another (e.g., Black people) are not prejudiced by this definition. The IAT shows biases that are not endorsed and that may even be contradictory to what one consciously believes. So, no, we would not say that such people are prejudiced. It is important to know, however, that implicit biases can predict behavior. When we relax our active efforts to be egalitarian, our implicit biases can lead to discriminatory behavior, so it is critical to be mindful of this possibility if we want to avoid prejudice and discrimination.

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And finally the test isn't foolproof

Important disclaimer: In reporting to you results of any IAT test that you take, we will mention possible interpretations that have a basis in research done (at the University of Washington, University of Virginia, Harvard University, and Yale University) with these tests. However, these Universities, as well as the individual researchers who have contributed to this site, make no claim for the validity of these suggested interpretations. If you are unprepared to encounter interpretations that you might find objectionable, please do not proceed further. You may prefer to examine general information about the IAT before deciding whether or not to proceed..

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As I said I got faster but the positive grouping was with European's the second half. Had it been reversed so would my results.

everlong said:

As I said I got faster but the positive grouping was with European's the second half. Had it been reversed so would my results.

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They do not think hand-eye coordination will influence the results although they do mention that too long between the responses will affect the test.

As Galeb stated this seems to be an attempt to measure social conditioning.

Could the result be a function of handedness or hand-eye coordination?
There is no evidence that handedness influences IAT scores. When thinking about the influence of hand-eye coordination or cognitive ability, keep in mind how the test works. In a gay-straight IAT we measure how long it takes people to categorize items when gay + good share a response key versus when gay + bad share a response key. People who have better hand-eye coordination or higher cognitive ability might be generally faster to respond, but there is no reason to think that they would be faster in one category pairing versus the other. For this reason we do not think that hand-eye coordination will influence IAT scores.

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PatriotsReign said:

I find it humorous that people think some test can tell one if he/she is racist.

People who are racist know it as do people that aren't. That's simply fact

.

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nah, I don't think that's true at all.

there's a lot of superracist black ppl out there who have convinced themselves that it's impossible to be black + racist by definition.