OT: Cam Newton & the race card

Tony2046 said:

I'm not discounting racism because I've seen it but it isn't rampant or the criticisms of Barack Obama do not "far exceed" that of a white guy. IMO

Barack Obama, who I unfortunately voted for, received 43% of the white vote which is remarkably consistent when compared to previous elections in which the Democratic candidates were white.

Kerry - 41%
Gore - 42%
Clinton - 44%
Carter - 36%

http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/poll...tions/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2008/

Cam likes being in the limelight which is fine and he is doing good things with his fame on and off the field. His critics are those who don't like loud, "look at me I'm Superman" type guys.

Are there those who don't like Cam because he is black? Sure but it isn't rampant. IMO

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You agreed with me. Thanks.

Snake Eyes said:

Ok, exactly how can someone go about hating Obama and not be racist? Please, tell me.

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Some people hate all liberals, white and black alike.

Fencer said:

You agreed with me. Thanks.

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Did I? I apologize if I missed understood your point.

I'll say one thing for cam, he certainly knows who to pander to + how to do it when he wants attention.
some people just jump in the boat when dudes building their #brand.

Fencer said:

I disagree on both parts of that. His opportunity was limited by the inevitability of a backlash. And much of what opportunity there was he seized.

What confuses people about race relations in the US, I think, is that we move on from solving one bad problem to dealing with the next. Slavery is over. Directly discriminatory laws are over. Overt job discrimination is over. Implicit job discrimination and the remnants of affirmative action are in some kind of awkward balance. Doubting the basic competence of blacks to hold the most challenging jobs? That's basically over too.

But unequal policing? That's not over, it's a much bigger deal than many people realized, and it's been the big racial issue of Obama's time.

Moving from one set of bad problems to the next ones is, in my opinion, pretty good progress.

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Oddly enough having the policing issue brought into the limelight will benefit all races in this country. MLK marched for equal rights for African Americans but the results of those rights directly or indirectly benefited all races. For example it used to be illegal in many states for people of different races to marry which ended in the 1960's although I recall a black/white couple being refused a marriage license a few years back.

My fear of addressing the policing issues is that good cops will be victimized by the actions of a few bad cops.

Fencer said:

Driving While Black.
The stats on stop-and-frisk.
The bad stuff in Ferguson that's unarguable (as opposed to the shooting, which is highly debatable).
Various incidents that have made the news in which the police are guilty maybe or maybe not of crimes, but at best of terrible, fatally bad judgment.

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Driving while black is a phrase, not a point. What stats on stop & frisk?

This country is obsessed with race.

But I can see Newton's point.

People will hate him just because of the color of his skin and because culturally he's not what everyone is accustomed to.

Wilson is more accepted because culturally people can relate to him.

condon84 said:

This country is obsessed with race.

But I can see Newton's point.

People will hate him just because of the color of his skin and because culturally he's not what everyone is accustomed to.

Wilson is more accepted because culturally people can relate to him.

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newton's point is LOOK AT ME!!!
and ppl will hate him cuz he's a tryhard douchebag

the color of his skin just gets a lot of ppl to cheer for him who otherwise wouldn't.

primetime said:

It's like you didn't even read the article I sent, which was a direct response to the skewed history of White Cargo and other white supremacist literature.

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FWIW, I do appreciate the feedback. My opinion is based off of what I've read or experienced. Liam Ham's article is incredibly interesting but leads me into that freaking same old dilemma of who is right or is it both are partially right.

I have some talents but none of them include knowing which side to believe. I read a book reviewed by the NY Times, London Times, etc... and your referenced article written by a seemingly knowledgeable historian. Both have striking differences regarding "white slavery". It would be nice to know the truth.

Anyways thanks for the feedback.

condon84 said:

People will hate him just because of the color of his skin

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That's why the NFL is so unpopular...all that dark skin.

aluminum seats said:

That's why the NFL is so unpopular...all that dark skin.

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SMH.

That's not really what I said, but that goes to show the critical thinking on your part.

QBs are the face of the franchise and is looked upon differently.

eom said:

newton's point is LOOK AT ME!!!
and ppl will hate him cuz he's a tryhard douchebag

the color of his skin just gets a lot of ppl to cheer for him who otherwise wouldn't.

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That's part of his culture. If you've ever played sports in areas like that, that's predominant when they do something well they celebrate. Some people hate that. Do you ever watch the And1 basketball? Yeah that's how it's like when you play in their areas. It's offensive/obnoxious to suburban grown ups. Newton likes to be loud and has a lot of "look at me" celebrations. People need to get over it.

condon84 said:

SMH.
That's part of his culture. If you've ever played sports in areas like that, that's predominant when they do something well they celebrate. Some people hate that. Do you ever watch the And1 basketball? Yeah that's how it's like when you play in their areas. It's offensive/obnoxious to suburban grown ups. Newton likes to be loud and has a lot of "look at me" celebrations. People need to get over it.

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To quote Richard Dawkins "to hell with their culture". Just because people are in the habit of doing something doesn't mean I owe it any respect.

meatface said:

Here, Here and Here.

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Also, when you get a chance please do a google search for "Tom Brady arrogant", let me know if it brings up anything.

Snake Eyes said:

To quote Richard Dawkins "to hell with their culture". Just because people are in the habit of doing something doesn't mean I owe it any respect.

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And you are completely entitled to how you feel

Just like he's entitled to celebrate if it's not illegal

condon84 said:

SMH.

That's not really what I said, but that goes to show the critical thinking on your part.

QBs are the face of the franchise and is looked upon differently.



That's part of his culture. If you've ever played sports in areas like that, that's predominant when they do something well they celebrate. Some people hate that. Do you ever watch the And1 basketball? Yeah that's how it's like when you play in their areas. It's offensive/obnoxious to suburban grown ups. Newton likes to be loud and has a lot of "look at me" celebrations. People need to get over it.

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no, people actually don't have to get over anything -- they can continue on thinking he's a tryhard douchebag.
believe it or not, and I know this is going to be impossible to come to terms with, but black ppl can be douchebags just like anybody else, the principle difference being the majority of the white population doesn't rush to defend white douchebags just because they're white.

I guess williamson, marshall, woodyard or wtfever it was don't watch and1 basketball + must be 'suburban grown ups' wtfever code that's supposed to be.
whether it was school, the job, or wherever, I've known people here and there like cam my whole life + they were just as obnoxious af.

edit: oh, and I guess I should prob clarify for people like yourself, 'people like cam' =/ black people

condon84 said:

And you are completely entitled to how you feel

Just like he's entitled to celebrate if it's not illegal

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Yes, then he shouldn't cry racism when people criticize him for celebrating like he does. If you can't take the smell stay out of the bathroom.

eom said:

no, people actually don't have to get over anything -- they can continue on thinking he's a tryhard douchebag.
believe it or not, and I know this is going to be impossible to come to terms with, but black ppl can be douchebags just like anybody else, the principle difference being the majority of the white population doesn't rush to defend white douchebags just because they're white.

I guess williamson, marshall, woodyard or wtfever it was don't watch and1 basketball + must be 'suburban grown ups' wtfever code that's supposed to be.
whether it was school, the job, or wherever, I've known people here and there like cam my whole life + they were just as obnoxious af.

edit: oh, and I guess I should prob clarify for people like yourself, 'people like cam' =/ black people

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Haha, sure dude. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Not worth an argument.

Snake Eyes said:

Yes, then he shouldn't cry racism when people criticize him for celebrating like he does. If you can't take the smell stay out of the bathroom.

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He can cry racism if he wants to. You don't have to agree with him or listen to him.

condon84 said:

He can cry racism if he wants to. You don't have to agree with him or listen to him.

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and we can cry douchebag

meatface said:

Also again dont talk about things you dont understand; im just not really sure how you can connect these two things was my point. For one Japan was an industrialized power before it was destroyed and was rebuilt with massive help from the US, maybe if Japanese people had been sold as slaves brought to another country where they were forced into cattle slavery for several hundred years and then after being freed were subject to legal discrimination for an additional century that prevented them from getting a quality education or even living in the same neighborhoods or using the same bathrooms as other people; then had two atomic bombs dropped on them you might have a point. It can be hard to get over racism when police can murder a 12 year old with a toy gun in an open carry state and people blame the child. Cam didnt say people should excuse poor play because he is black or anything, but he is right that if a QB acts or looks a certain way then all of the sudden he is an arrogant thug who is a bad role model.

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I understand these things just fine.

I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear.

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We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools.

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Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend.

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Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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The above quotes come from Martin Luther King, Jr. You seem to be under the misguided impression that I'm saying African Americans should simply forget their history and move forward. I'm not saying that all. What I'm saying, and have been, is move PAST it and above it. Blaming one's current problems on slavery is simply a crutch for the weak and lazy to use. Their advancement has been largely due in part to taking on the attitude Dr. King spoke about that I touched on in the quotes above and also in part to assistance from majorities in an effort to help them get to a more equal footing. It's also another reason why I pointed to post-WWII Japan. The Japanese had every right to be angry and blame Americans after that. Not only did we reduce them to rubble and near financial ruin, but we also forced a man they looked upon as a god to renounce himself even though he remained in power. Instead of blaming and harboring hate toward Americans, they eventually became self sufficient and now are a power on the economic stage. They're thriving. They made themselves better when hate would have been the easier route to take. Tossing the race card out there blindly and in blanket form, which is pretty much what Newton did, leads to those who actually don't have an issue with him simply because of race to become defensive and all it does is breed contempt. He really should have just kept his mouth shut about it and gave a non-answer. Instead, he played the race card and made a broad, sweeping generalization.