Offseason talk - would you trade Chandler Jones?

Brady6 said:

Collins is worth far more than Hightower. He was a second team all pro and he is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best LB in the entire NFL.

Click to expand...

And both may be worth much more than their suggested amounts in this exercise.

Mayo was getting about 10m a year and that was quite awhile ago, so it probably would be like 11-11.5 today, and that goes for both of them.

DarrylS said:

Harvin traded to Jets in 2014 for conditional draft pick in 2015...either a 4th or 6th....

Click to expand...

Harvin

3 PICKS : 1ST 5TH 7TH cap issues
Vikings -------------------------------> Seatle ------------------------------> jets

Harvin was a bust after leaving MINN but first he was trade for 3 picks, thats a FACT. ... You are trying to compare CJ in his prime to Harvin after years of injuries?

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

Dude dont change subject. Percy Harvin was traded for a 1st + 7th and a 5th !! He was 24 years old and had MAJOR issues. Jones is 25 SB champ, pro bowl player... So what we get for CJ a 3rd? Or a 5th ?

This type of trade does not happen as often because the teams prefer to keep their own talents. When changes like this happen a first round pick is the minimum to ask.

Look Jimmy Graham trade and others: 28 years + bad contract + bad fit for the team and seattle trade their best OL Unger + 1st round draft pick ...

So name 3 DE in this league that are under 25 years better than CJ.

Click to expand...

There are only a couple/few players on each team who are worth a first rounder, and ours are Brady and Gronkowski. You could argue that Hightower may bring in a first rounder as well.

Guys like McCourty and Collins would bring in second round picks, possibly second round + another late round pick or player. Jones would likely fall into that category. His play is inconsistent and he falls off during the second half of the year. On top of that, he just showed horrible instincts and leadership skills during the most important time of the season. He may even have a substance abuse issue. Chandler Jones is not getting us a first round pick.

mgteich said:

1) Cutting Johnson saves nothing. He will compete in camp, or at worst be a camp body. We have Roberts and Johnson coming to camp as backups to our 3 starters (Coleman at nickel). There is no need to cut Johnson.
2) Cannon will not be cut until there is a replacement. In your scenario that is Fleming. That hasn't worked out. Perhaps, Waddle will be extended before he becomes an RFA.
3) Your numbers are almost all low (e.g. Amendola) , but that doesn't matter at all. The key is to decide who to extend, who to keep and who to cut.
4) Hicks will get more from others. Chris Jones and Easley are coming back. We also have Kitchen. Of course our starters are Brown and Branch. We might extend RFA Siliga who figures to be much cheaper than Hicks.
5) I see no reason to trade Jones. He is worth the $7.5M to the patriots for 2016. If he goes in 2017, we'll get a 3rd in compensation.

Click to expand...

Johnson cap is 760k so if he is replaced for a rookie they will save 200k.

Cannon is the worst OT in the NFL, If they play Stork RT they will be better, and they will save $3,687,500 in cap space. Do you really see him staying?

Hicks is probably gonne i agree.

If you can get a 3rd next year why not a 1st and something this year? First you will save almost $7.5M - 2 rookies deals, and can get a 1st round talent to play DE. Plus a RB in the 4th, and the team that trade with us will have the whole year to extend Jones or tag him that is way better that FA frenzy.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

Harvin

3 PICKS : 1ST 5TH 7TH cap issues
Vikings -------------------------------> Seatle ------------------------------> jets

Harvin was a bust after leaving MINN but first he was trade for 3 picks, thats a FACT. ... You are trying to compare CJ in his prime to Harvin after years of injuries?

Click to expand...

And some dumasses gave 2nd rounders for guys like Charlie Whitehurst and Kevin Kolb, but that doesn't mean that it's the norm.

If anything, you could argue that these major trades like Harvin, Seymour, or the above examples have made GMs much more cautious since they were such epic failures. These trades just aren't made very often anymore.

supafly said:

There are only a couple/few players on each team who are worth a first rounder, and ours are Brady and Gronkowski. You could argue that Hightower may bring in a first rounder as well.

Guys like McCourty and Collins would bring in second round picks, possibly second round + another late round pick or player. Jones would likely fall into that category. His play is inconsistent and he falls off during the second half of the year. On top of that, he just showed horrible instincts and leadership skills during the most important time of the season. He may even have a substance abuse issue. Chandler Jones is not getting us a first round pick.

Click to expand...

Let me get this. Collins is worth a second? Hightower another second round pick?

So if lets say the jets offer you a couple of 2nd picks + a 3rd + 7th for Hightower and Collins would you trade then?

Cordarelle Patterson is woth more than Collins and HT without playing a single snap...

mgteich said:

5) I see no reason to trade Jones. He is worth the $7.5M to the patriots for 2016. If he goes in 2017, we'll get a 3rd in compensation.

Click to expand...

Extending Sheard is likely in their better interests, particularly since he has a 7m dollar cap hit this year. They certainly aren't going to pay that kind of money to Sheard, Jones, and Ninkovich. That would be about 20m dollars worth of cap hits.

The fact that they could save 7.8 m dollars by trading Jones a year before he's very likely to leave may be worth consideration, especially with other areas of need, limited cap room, 3 recent DE additions, and the lack of a first round pick. That's not even bringing up the situations of Hightower and Collins.

There's also no guarantee that we'll get back a 3rd round comp pick yet again. He could get hurt next year, be suspended, fail a test, or just have a mediocre year. I'm sure the fans of CLE thought they'd get a 3rd round pick for Sheard too, until he became injured and his play dropped.

supafly said:

Extending Sheard is likely in their better interests, particularly since he has a 7m dollar cap hit this year. They certainly aren't going to pay that kind of money to Sheard, Jones, and Ninkovich. That would be about 20m dollars worth of cap hits.

The fact that they could save 7.8 m dollars by trading Jones a year before he's very likely to leave may be worth consideration, especially with other areas of need, limited cap room, 3 recent DE additions, and the lack of a first round pick. That's not even bringing up the situations of Hightower and Collins.

There's also no guarantee that we'll get back a 3rd round comp pick yet again. He could get hurt next year, be suspended, fail a test, or just have a mediocre year. I'm sure the fans of CLE thought they'd get a 3rd round pick for Sheard too, until he became injured and his play dropped.

Click to expand...

Jones + 5th to CLE, Mingo + 1st to us

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

Let me get this. Collins is worth a second? Hightower another second round pick?

Click to expand...

Well I said that an argument could be made that HT is a first rounder, but I don't know about Collins. He started to gain attention at the end of the '13 season in the Colts game, and that continued into last season where he was finally elected to a pro bowl. He went later in the second round, so has he improved that much that he's definitely a first rounder? I don't know.

Maybe, but either way, there's only a few players on each team worth first rounders, and many wouldn't even have three. Those players are rare, proven players who belong in the top tier "elite" category.

They're also both playing in contract years, so whatever team would be trading would likely want to reach some type of agreement on a long term, big money deal.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

Cordarelle Patterson is woth more than Collins and HT without playing a single snap...

Click to expand...

I don't know what this is supposed to mean? No one would consider trading a first round pick for Cordarralle Patterson, either.

supafly said:

Well I said that an argument could be made that HT is a first rounder, but I don't know about Collins. He started to gain attention at the end of the '13 season in the Colts game, and that continued into last season where he was finally elected to a pro bowl. He went later in the second round, so has he improved that much that he's definitely a first rounder? I don't know.

Maybe, but either way, there's only a few players on each team worth first rounders, and many wouldn't even have three. Those players are rare, proven players who belong in the top tier "elite" category.

They're also both playing in contract years, so whatever team would be trading would likely want to reach some type of agreement on a long term, big money deal.



I don't know what this is supposed to mean? No one would consider trading a first round pick for Cordarralle Patterson, either.

Click to expand...

So 2 2nd round picks + 3rd for Collins and HT. Deal or no deal?

I think its ridiculous to trade Jones for anyone in the draft period. Prefer to keep the player than hope to hit on a less than 50/50 chance on a first rounder let alone a 2nd rounder lol.

If we trade Jones it should be more than a first. I trust BB on finding another Sheard in FA better than chancing a draft pick.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

So 2 2nd round picks + 3rd for Collins and HT. Deal or no deal?

Click to expand...

I'm sorry. I'm not fully understanding the question.

Is that a hypothetical trade scenario which would get rid of ALL three big defensive players? If so, why would anyone want to do that?

If you're just offering an example as to what each player could get in a trade, I still think that you're overestimating trade compensation. No one is giving up 2 second rounders and a third. They would be better off just giving up a first.

Big Bucks said:

I trust BB on finding another Sheard in FA better than chancing a draft pick.

Click to expand...

So, you think it's reasonable to have about 20 million dollars of cap hits tied up in Jones, Sheard, and Ninkovich as our DEs, AND you want to "find another Sheard" at a 7 million dollar cap hit in free agency as well?

Free agency is a nice tool to add some missing pieces at reasonable cost every year, but it is the draft which has proven to be our bread and butter in the era of the salary cap.

Why do you think we sit back and watch key pieces such as Seymour, Wilfork, Woodhead, Vereen, Revis, and Welker leave? Because Belichick is looking at the next player on a cheaper, rookie contract that gives us more value. That's how he stays ahead.

I think they will trade Jones, for at least an early 2nd rounder then they will extend Sheard.

randomk1 said:

Chandler Jones is pretty damn mediocre imo. Not even sure how he got 12 sacks. Most of the time it's like he's not even on the field.

Click to expand...

If you think he wasn't on the field it's easy to tell why you aren't sure how he got his sacks.

So I'll tell you. He ran across the line of scrimmage, beat the guy who was supposed to block him, grabbed the QB and threw or dragged him to the ground. Except a couple of time when he didn't get the QB to the ground, instead just knocked the ball from his hand for a strip-sack fumble.

Does that help?

VectorPrime said:

Trade him for a stud guard.

Click to expand...

We already have at least two. Both rookies, but they did well enough for their first year, under an OL coach who wasn't worth keeping around. Maybe a third if you count Stork.

This is just a terrible idea. The Patriots are a championship, caliber team and people want to deliberately weaken their defensive line for a second round draft pick that may or may not pan out some day. You don't go into the offseason weakening the team and that is all this will do.

Right now all the Patriots have to do to return a defensive line that's 8 deep is sign Akiem Hicks, and that won't be too hard for them. With one sugning they can line up Ninkovich and Sheard at LDE, Easely and Brown at starting DT with Branch and Hicks backing them up, and Chandler Jones and Trey Flowers at RDE. And they would still have Chris Jones for additional depth. I don't know if there is any other team in football that is that deep and that good on the D Line and can't imagine why people would want to weaken something they have been screaming about fixing for years. I would re-sign Hicks and try to extend Sheard two years and reduce his 7 Million cap hit for this season. Defensive line would not only be fixed for next season but for the next 3 years which would free them up to address LB and CB if they want to.

I think people are way too hung up on the idea Jones can't be resigned. The cap is going up at a fast rate and given their overall shape I think they can get both Hightower and Jones done this off-season and then do Collins next year, and in a worst case scenario could franchise Collins for the 2018 season, which gives them 3 seasons to get Collins done, so his deal is absolutely no reason to get rid of Jones early. Instead I would focus on finding a really good OLB to replace Mayo and if they can a very good veteran starting caliber CB to provide them with even more depth and stability on that unit. I think Mayo will be cut to deal with his contract and will be a rotational player if he returns. At this point I don't think money will be as big an issue as health is and could actually see him, hanging them up if the pectoral tear he just had fixed was a bad one. If the tear wasn't bad and he wants to return then I would try to sign him to a two year deal with incentives for playing time, this would save a ton against the cap, help with both the starting unit and depth both inside and out at LB and keep a strong leader on a young defensive unit.

This defense is on the verge of becoming a great unit. They are young but many have rings and almost all have big game experience. This coming year they should be able to run almost their entire defensive playbook and have everyone on the same page and that is a level that is really hard to reach and harder to maintain, using vital pieces as trade chips for draft picks makes no sense, especially if they believe they can get him signed to a reasonable deal.

Jones disappears during big games. I want him gone. He just doesn't play the run well enough, and he doesn't set the edge well.
I would expect a lot more from a 5th year guy.
I think he is not going to get any better than what he currently is. I would love to keep Hicks.

So ridiculous to lust after cutting good players when it's so hard to obtain and develop them.

Just bizarre and ridiculous.

As crazy as it sounds it makes alot of sense.
I like Grissom I like Johnson I love Sheard
Trade Chandler for draft real estate or a starting offensive lineman.
Chandler seems like a good kid we all get one mistake and he just had his.
If BB was ever going to move him this would be the offseason.
We will find out alot about how much Chandler means to BB this offseason.