Gronk was WIDE open on the conversion

ivanvamp said:

Football is the ultimate team game. Brady got totally killed all game long, and was under pressure on the 2-point conversion as well.

And yet..... he should have made that play, and even in a moment of total honesty (not just playing the humble leader for the cameras), he would, I'm pretty sure, say he just missed this one.

The first second after that ball was snapped he should have been able to see what would be open, given how Denver reacted to the two receivers right of the hash marks.

Obviously Brady is incredible and anyone can make a mistake and lord knows he's been amazing. But he didn't get this one right. Huge bummer, but there it is. Gronk was indeed wide open.

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The problem is, that even when Brady had a few seconds to throw he still felt like he didn't have time to throw. That's going to happen to just about anybody when they're getting hit 20+ times. It is what it is, hopefully Broncos get **** stomped anyways and we can at least see we probably couldn't have beaten Carolina anyways. Come back and get em next year.

James White looks like the player with the best chance there but it would have taken a big lead on the pass to make sure he has a chance of scoring.

patsderoer said:

Why oh why was White lined up so close to Brady? Put him just behind where Edelman ends up at the snap, and White would've been wide WIDE open right after the snap.

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If we move where White is lined up this will most certainly change how Denver lines up their players. Don't think it would have changed a lot.

Galeb said:

Depending on the coverage, reads come in different orders. You can't make all the reads at once, and each route is designed with a timing for which each receiver should expect the ball. Judging by where Brady is looking, the first reads were to the receivers on the right side.

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Realistically, I think the only way White ends up with the ball on this playcall is if #25 of Denver breaks to the other side and doubles Edelman together with Talib. However, the moment he goes with White is when Brady knew Edelman would only have to beat single coverage which is when he starts to focus on him.

luuked said:

If we move where White is lined up this will most certainly change how Denver lines up their players. Don't think it would have changed a lot.

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White lined up across from the guys who ran with him, would not had changed their line-up. He was lined up too far from the LOS. White had to run 3 yards just to get to where I say that he should had been (between Cannon and Edelman, on the same level as Edelman).

Oh, and I love Edelman, but he didn't ran a good route. He declared his intention right after the snap, ran left right after the snap. He didn't try to fool Talib in any way, and Talib was right there to defend him.
He should had ran straight at Talib until the 1yard line, faked running to his right, and then ran to his left. That would at least freeze Talib for a second , enough time for Edelman to get open .

I noticed this as well. If the oline could've blocked better Brady almost assuredly finds Gronkowski...Pats need to use their first round pick on a guy who can play both tackle positions...oh wait...

sambam94 said:

surprised the didn't have a go to 2 point play..a throw to a double teamed jules wasn't going to cut it

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Agree whole heartedly.....in a way THAT breaks the play. If he holds his block for even a second Brady can make his reads and find Gronk easily.

Watch in real time. Gronk is covered when Brady has an opening to throw the ball.

My first pic is misleading.

Tim Hasselbeck: Failed two-point conversion was ‘100 percent error’ by Tom Brady

raduray said:

That picture is potentially misleading. See the two defenders on the goal line? They're in the throwing lane. Brady would have had to lob it over them, potentially giving them time to drop back and make a play on the ball. Still, the next day from the sky view it looks like a better choice than the throw he made.

EDIT: Let's not forget the three rushers, all having beaten their Patriots counterparts and converging on Brady at a rapid rate.

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Yes, I definitely don't think it was a slam dunk but after what Gronk did on the two fourth downs with the season on the line I'd have to think he would have been the 'go to' guy on the play. Instead, it looks like White was designed to be the first read and they double covered that up.

Jlaff said:

I got the same picture in an email, from a friend relishing the disappointment of Pats' fans. Didn't need this brought up again in a special thread on the forum. But I'll forgive the OP, we all grieve in different ways.

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I forgot that you received the same pic via email.

raduray said:

That picture is potentially misleading. See the two defenders on the goal line? They're in the throwing lane. Brady would have had to lob it over them, potentially giving them time to drop back and make a play on the ball. Still, the next day from the sky view it looks like a better choice than the throw he made.

EDIT: Let's not forget the three rushers, all having beaten their Patriots counterparts and converging on Brady at a rapid rate.

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Yep. I like how people feel they can read the situation from a snapshot better than Brady did in the moment.

What is weird is that our OLine was playing like a gassed defensive line by the end of the game. Denver's defensive line never seemed to get tired....Not saying they were all jacked up on adderall or anything, I'm just sayin.

Not to sound like a pestering mother, but they shouldn't leave everything to the last second.

patsderoer said:

White lined up across from the guys who ran with him, would not had changed their line-up. He was lined up too far from the LOS. White had to run 3 yards just to get to where I say that he should had been (between Cannon and Edelman, on the same level as Edelman).

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Fascinating to talk routes and line ups.. I really love it.. thanks for replying in such detail..

So the way I see it -- and correct me if I am wrong because I am total amateur -- if we would have lined up White closer to Edelman then Denver #20 would also move up and setup on the other side of Talib and be in better position to get to White before the endzone than he was in this case. By putting White where he was we made #20 cross right in front of Talib to give Edelman a little bit of breathing room (that he didnt really use). Either way, the only way White gets the ball into the endzone is if Brady decides pre-snap this is where he is going and launches the ball almost immediately.

patsderoer said:

Oh, and I love Edelman, but he didn't ran a good route. He declared his intention right after the snap, ran left right after the snap. He didn't try to fool Talib in any way, and Talib was right there to defend him.
He should had ran straight at Talib until the 1yard line, faked running to his right, and then ran to his left. That would at least freeze Talib for a second , enough time for Edelman to get open .

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Edelman picked #25 right after taking his first two steps which didn't help his timing on Talib. Also like Chatham showed in his short video he was denied the free space which was cleared by Dola and Martin in the middle by great awareness of DL #97 who dropped back into that empty space to squeeze Edelman. That being said I am not sure why he sat on his route instead of going juking into the endzone to the left like you said.

sambam94 said:

surprised the didn't have a go to 2 point play..a throw to a double teamed jules wasn't going to cut it

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Except Edelman was not really double covered on that play.

Looking at the Broncos formation Brady knew that either White, Gronk or Edelman would be double covered. If two Denver defenders move upfield after the snap he knows he has Edelman in single coverage and either White or Gronk are in double. Jules looked like he was in double coverage because a DL (#97) dropped back after the Denver DL already handily beat our OL. But this happened long after Brady had decided on Edelman and pressure from two sides didn't give any time to look for alternatives.

ivanvamp said:

Football is the ultimate team game. Brady got totally killed all game long, and was under pressure on the 2-point conversion as well.

And yet..... he should have made that play, and even in a moment of total honesty (not just playing the humble leader for the cameras), he would, I'm pretty sure, say he just missed this one.

The first second after that ball was snapped he should have been able to see what would be open, given how Denver reacted to the two receivers right of the hash marks.

Obviously Brady is incredible and anyone can make a mistake and lord knows he's been amazing. But he didn't get this one right. Huge bummer, but there it is. Gronk was indeed wide open.

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He didnt have time to let Gronk get open because Kline whiffed on Brandon Marshall and he was closing fast. The picture doesn't demonstrate the pressure, but watching the video in full speed, he was closing fast. The loss is on the O line. Plain and simple.

I wish they would have put at least one guy on an island out wide. Reduces the congestion and gives an opportunity for a guy to win the one on one battle.

luuked said:

Fascinating to talk routes and line ups.. I really love it.. thanks for replying in such detail..

So the way I see it -- and correct me if I am wrong because I am total amateur -- if we would have lined up White closer to Edelman then Denver #20 would also move up and setup on the other side of Talib and be in better position to get to White before the endzone than he was in this case. By putting White where he was we made #20 cross right in front of Talib to give Edelman a little bit of breathing room (that he didnt really use). Either way, the only way White gets the ball into the endzone is if Brady decides pre-snap this is where he is going and launches the ball almost immediately.

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I'm not an expert either but that looks like bad play design.
White was 5 yards behind the LOS, so he had to ran 5 yards just to get to the LOS. That in a game where the pass rush was getting to Brady in less than 2 sec.

Look at the other side of the line how Amendola was lined up, between Vollmer and the other WR.
That's exactly where I would have put White between Cannon and Edelman, just 2 yards from the LOS, instead of 5.

luuked said:

Edelman picked #25 right after taking his first two steps which didn't help his timing on Talib. Also like Chatham showed in his short video he was denied the free space which was cleared by Dola and Martin in the middle by great awareness of DL #97 who dropped back into that empty space to squeeze Edelman. That being said I am not sure why he sat on his route instead of going juking into the endzone to the left like you said.

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That pick by Edelman made a lot of sense if White was right next to him. As it was, it only slowed down Edelman. The pick would've helped White to get wide open, but as it was he had to run 5 yards just to get to the LOS. Baffling play design and IMHO bad play design.

Here's Brian Baldinger breaking down the play, fwiw:

Brady missed open Gronk on 2-pt conversion - NFL Videos

Dont know if gronk was open or not.But the 2pt play shouldve gone to only gronk, even if he was doubled.Only guy along with brady who was making plays so shouldve gone to their best player.

vuudu said:

That picture is even offensive. Is that Cannon already falling down? The OL is chasing after the defenders.

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Good spot. It appears to be Cannon getting eaten up once again. But one needs to ask why was Cannon not given some help? He was failing awful. Where was a TE or Back giving his assignment a chip or 1 to 2 seconds of help? Versus 5 wide almost every damn play?? (this is where I go back to gameplan and coaching was just not off to snuff this game).

Bottom line: Brady missed it. Actually I think if the pic was a half second later you'd see Martin had a full step ahead of his defender 8 yards behind Jules. Brady could have also sent a dart to the right pylon for White and certainly converted if White caught it. In this regards I think Brady chose the absolute friggin worst place to go with the ball -- to the one receiver who Denver was focused on and all over. Hey, Brady is not infallible - no QB or player or coach is. And given the atrocious play of the OL I'm apt to give everyone a pass for this game from Brady to DA (falling down before the yard stick to dropping another pass that would have given us a first down) to other backs/receivers.
The Patriots O was discombobulated pretty much all game. That is in large part to the play of the OL, a part to the (hard to figure out) coaching decisions, and Brady-DA-others not making the play that we would like them to make but would be above expected under these mad dash at the QB conditions. Under better conditions I would pan Brady's choice there much more harshly...

Patsgofor4 said:

It is amazing to me sometimes the lengths patriots fans will go to make excuses for Brady. That has to go to Gronk. Instead, he tinkled down his leg and forced it to Edelman. GOAT, yes, but not yesterday.

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What a ****ing joke of a post. Guess you forgot the 2 throws Brady made just to get it to the 2 point conversion.