Game Thoughts: No Rocky Mountain High for this team Edition

Rob0729 · Jan 25, 2016

The Pats' philosophy of playing a soft defense on the other team's opening drive to allow them to tip their hand really blew up in the Patriots' face this time. Usually they tighten up when the ball crosses mid field and hold the opposing defense to 3 or no points and then tighten up on the next drive. That TD really cost them. It really set the tone of the game.
That said, for all the ball washing for the Broncos' defense (deservedly so), the Patriots defense played lights out for most of the rest of the game. Even though Collins did a poor job covering Daniels on that TD, that second TD was on Brady. It is too bad because the defense's solid performance was overshadows by the dumpster fire that was the offense.
I think Brady is more hurt than they were letting on. I heard on the radio yesterday that under the radar that Brady needed a lot of treatment on his ankle leading up to the KC game. His throws were way off yesterday even when he wasn't under pressure. Didn't look like he was stepping into his throws correctly.
For all the people who have killed Nate Solder over the years, you need to give him a big apology. It hasn't been more apparent how good he is protecting Brady's blindside (and allowing Vollmer to protect his other side) than yesterday and this season after he went down.
That o-line was awful. I don't even know where to begin. So I will leave it there.
I don't get why Kubiak challenged that Amendola incomplete pass. Stupid decision. If the call was overturned, the only possible outcome would have been a reception and down by contact. The ball wasn't stripped until Amendola's knee was on the ground.
This team needs to invest in a real road grader RB this offseason. The inability to even show a half hearted running game in the past two months has really hurt them. Yes, a large part of this was the o-line, but it was also because they did not have a RB who could hit the hole fast and hard. Stephen Jackson took like 15 minutes to hit the hole. He was really done and I think was a mistake for the Pats to add him rather than another street free agent.
I think people are looking at the fact the Pats didn't kick field goals on the last two drives prior to th TD as hindsight being a bit of 20/20. Sure the first one you can definitely argue that they should have kicked a field goal and I would agree with you. I didn't have a problem going for it the second time just because there was no guarantee that they could have scored again.

Mark. · Jan 25, 2016

Rob0729 said:
That said, for all the ball washing for the Broncos' defense (deservedly so), the Patriots defense played lights out for most of the rest of the game. Even though Collins did a poor job covering Daniels on that TD, that second TD was on Brady. It is too bad because the defense's solid performance was overshadows by the dumpster fire that was the offense.

I thought the defense had a great game. And Ryan had a good game-Held Thomas to 2 catches for 12 yards. No TD for either Sanders or Thomas. If you had told me before the game they would have under 100 yards combined and that we'd shut down the run game, I'd have said the Patriots would easily win. It has been fun to watch Butler this season-He exceeded my expectations. I do wonder how the defense would have done against a mobile QB like Newton. That seems to be one area they struggle with.

aluminum seats · Jan 25, 2016

Rob0729 said:
I don't get why Kubiak challenged that Amendola incomplete pass. Stupid decision. If the call was overturned, the only possible outcome would have been a reception and down by contact. The ball wasn't stripped until Amendola's knee was on the ground.

I thought Amendola was on top of the Broncos' player, to be honest. Seemed like a close call.

Rob0729 said:
This team needs to invest in a real road grader RB this offseason. The inability to even show a half hearted running game in the past two months has really hurt them. Yes, a large part of this was the o-line, but it was also because they did not have a RB who could hit the hole fast and hard.

Lewis made such a difference...genuinely skilled skill players make such a difference. Guys who you simply get the ball to, and let them create something. Not easy to find. Here's to Lewis being the same guy next year.

aluminum seats · Jan 25, 2016

aluminum seats said:
I thought Amendola was on top of the Broncos' player, to be honest. Seemed like a close call.

Lewis made such a difference...genuinely skilled skill players make such a difference. Guys who you simply get the ball to, and let them create something. Not easy to find. Here's to Lewis being the same guy next year.

Speaking of Amendola, his second effort to get to within a yard was soooo frustrating. He actually stumbled...if he stays on his feet, that's a first down.

Kontradiction · Jan 25, 2016

A road grader RB isn't going to do much behind that OL. A RB needs holes to be open for him to be successful. They can't open any holes. Can't pass protect worth a damn either, for that matter. The Panthers would **** on the Pats BIG TIME in the Super Bowl. Their two three techs would be absolutely dominant.

BelichickFan · Jan 25, 2016

KontradictioN said:
A road grader RB isn't going to do much behind that OL. A RB needs holes to be open for him to be successful. They can't open any holes. Can't pass protect worth a damn either, for that matter. The Panthers would **** on the Pats BIG TIME in the Super Bowl. Their two three techs would be absolutely dominant.

For sure but we need both. We need, first, to figure out who can play out of Mason, Jackson, Kline, Stork, Andrews, and replace however many are necessary (hopefully none). Then we also need a better quality RB to go with Lewis. Can't wait to get Dion back.

Bella*chick · Jan 25, 2016

I feel like the O line is the biggest thing. Biggest need. Running game is like 1b.

Clonamery · Jan 25, 2016

I'm still trying to figure out why the defense waited until the second half to blitz. Manning was ready to give himself up at the first sign of contact...

The Broncos run game was under control from the get go.

luuked · Jan 25, 2016

KontradictioN said:
A road grader RB isn't going to do much behind that OL. A RB needs holes to be open for him to be successful. They can't open any holes. Can't pass protect worth a damn either, for that matter. The Panthers would **** on the Pats BIG TIME in the Super Bowl. Their two three techs would be absolutely dominant.

Don't think their secondary would be able to keep coverage up as tight as Denver's did yesterday on Edelman and Amendola. So we might have had it easier to move the ball on the Panthers than on Denver.

What Harris, Talib & co. did yesterday really was almost a masterpiece without major breakdowns.

everlong · Jan 25, 2016

1. I'm not one to kill the OC over the years but this is the most egregious lack of adjustments and in general an awful game plan. Who leaves Marcus Cannon on an island against Von Miller all day long? Not to play the Charlie Weiss card but he would have been chipping Miller and Ware. Brady had less than 2 seconds on probably 75% of the snaps and yet more often than not Vollmer and Cannon were one on one and getting spanked.

Josh has Mike Martz disease. He just cannot get away from the spread and thinks eventually it will work. It usually does but not since SB 42 have I been yelling you have to give them help at the screen. My daughter plays soccer and is really fast. I'm always telling her to use her speed more and try to explain that TIME + SPACE = OPPORTUNITY. In Josh's case I'm convinced he thinks Space will ensure Time and opportunity. Sorry but Charlie understood that a half second spent on a chip can equal a second or two gained for time which will equate to more space and opportunity.

Epic fail. They should have been chipping from the start and bare minimum adjusted.

2. The OL has a lot of young pieces and some of them may grow into fine players but this line needs to be improved one way or another. Cannon at his salary isn't value for starters. Draft, FA or whatever they cannot go through another year with that albatross. Cam Newton had so much time it was sickening vs a pretty good Cardinals front.

3. The defense played too much cover two. I would have been much happier with a single high safety and why they gave up so many seam routes was beyond me. They should have been pushing everything outward on Manning.

4. The way that game was playing out the Pats should have kicked the FG with 6:03 left then they could have done the same with 2:25 left and all their timeouts and the 2 minute warning. Once you went for the first one the second had to happen but I thought at the time it was a bad decision.

5. When Gost missed that XP I as many thought of crap this game is going to come down to Bill's own rule change biting him in the ass.

6. Gronk was a beast and one of the few who showed up but WTF with the dehydration?

7. JE and DA with Meh days at best.

8. Good bye Brandon LaFell and Scott Chandler.

9. Why it took Josh until nearly the end of the game to get White so involved was also a mystery.

10. I would trade Chandler Jones this off-season and sign Hightower and Collins to extensions. Doing all three would be tough with the cap. I think you can get at least a first for him and probably more. The combination Sheard, Nink, Flowers and Grissom gives us good depth if no stars. I know he was hurt but so were Hightower and Collins and yet they made a lot of plays. Jones was invisible in both playoff games.

11. Carolina is going to handle Denver.

BelichickFan · Jan 25, 2016

everlong said:
4. The way that game was playing out the Pats should have kicked the FG with 6:03 left then they could have done the same with 2:25 left and all their timeouts and the 2 minute warning. Once you went for the first one the second had to happen but I thought at the time it was a bad decision.

I was good with going on 4th & 1. On the second, I would have kicked the FG as it was 4th & 6. While time was running out, a TD would have won it and we had three TO.

everlong said:
10. I would trade Chandler Jones this off-season and sign Hightower and Collins to extensions. Doing all three would be tough with the cap.

Wouldn't be a cap problem at all.

We're 5.6 under right now.
Cut Mayo saves 6.4.
Cut Cannon saves 3.2.
You traded Jones, that saves 7.8

That, alone, puts us 23 under.

Hightower is at 7.8, we would save money the first year re-doing him. Collins would go up a lot.
When you take the savings re-doing Hightower and remember that cap hits are lower in the early years, re-doing Hightower and Collins wouldn't eat much into the 23 under above. Certainly we'd still be 20 under.

Sicilian · Jan 25, 2016

BelichickFan said:
For sure but we need both. We need, first, to figure out who can play out of Mason, Jackson, Kline, Stork, Andrews, and replace however many are necessary (hopefully none). Then we also need a better quality RB to go with Lewis. Can't wait to get Dion back.

I think we need an upgrade over Cannon/Flemming as a depth tackle. Solder and Vollmer are fine to me, but as soon as one goes down there's a huge hole. We also need a veteran guard. I'm willing to bet Stork bounces back at C and Andrews is decent depth, but I don't want to put all of my o-line hopes on Kline, or that both Jackson and Mason will develop. I want to go into the season knowing that only one of them needs to stand out in order for the line to solidify.

If we can do that, and the line gets a chance to gel over the course of a season (which was never really able to happen this year), I think we'll be surprised how much better the running backs we already have would look. Not that I'm opposed to an upgrade over Blount/Jackson, but it's hard to objectively evaluate them under this past year's conditions.

Rob0729 · Jan 25, 2016

aluminum seats said:
I thought Amendola was on top of the Broncos' player, to be honest. Seemed like a close call.

His knee clearly hit the ground before he landed on the defender. It was clear either an incomplete pass or a first down (down by contact) and nowhere in between.

Dagg · Jan 25, 2016

everlong said:
1. I'm not one to kill the OC over the years but this is the most egregious lack of adjustments and in general an awful game plan. Who leaves Marcus Cannon on an island against Von Miller all day long? Not to play the Charlie Weiss card but he would have been chipping Miller and Ware. Brady had less than 2 seconds on probably 75% of the snaps and yet more often than not Vollmer and Cannon were one on one and getting spanked.

Josh has Mike Martz disease. He just cannot get away from the spread and thinks eventually it will work. It usually does but not since SB 42 have I been yelling you have to give them help at the screen. My daughter plays soccer and is really fast. I'm always telling her to use her speed more and try to explain that TIME + SPACE = OPPORTUNITY. In Josh's case I'm convinced he thinks Space will ensure Time and opportunity. Sorry but Charlie understood that a half second spent on a chip can equal a second or two gained for time which will equate to more space and opportunity.

Epic fail. They should have been chipping from the start and bare minimum adjusted.

2. The OL has a lot of young pieces and some of them may grow into fine players but this line needs to be improved one way or another. Cannon at his salary isn't value for starters. Draft, FA or whatever they cannot go through another year with that albatross. Cam Newton had so much time it was sickening vs a pretty good Cardinals front.

3. The defense played too much cover two. I would have been much happier with a single high safety and why they gave up so many seam routes was beyond me. They should have been pushing everything outward on Manning.

4. The way that game was playing out the Pats should have kicked the FG with 6:03 left then they could have done the same with 2:25 left and all their timeouts and the 2 minute warning. Once you went for the first one the second had to happen but I thought at the time it was a bad decision.

5. When Gost missed that XP I as many thought of crap this game is going to come down to Bill's own rule change biting him in the ass.

6. Gronk was a beast and one of the few who showed up but WTF with the dehydration?

7. JE and DA with Meh days at best.

8. Good bye Brandon LaFell and Scott Chandler.

9. Why it took Josh until nearly the end of the game to get White so involved was also a mystery.

10. I would trade Chandler Jones this off-season and sign Hightower and Collins to extensions. Doing all three would be tough with the cap. I think you can get at least a first for him and probably more. The combination Sheard, Nink, Flowers and Grissom gives us good depth if no stars. I know he was hurt but so were Hightower and Collins and yet they made a lot of plays. Jones was invisible in both playoff games.

11. Carolina is going to handle Denver.

I came here to post all these things so thanks everlong for saving me the typing you nailed them all. Only add is we lost this game week 17 in Miami. No way that teams beats in Foxboro.

everlong · Jan 25, 2016

BelichickFan said:
Wouldn't be a cap problem at all.

We're 5.6 under right now.
Cut Mayo saves 6.4.
Cut Cannon saves 3.2.
You traded Jones, that saves 7.8

That, alone, puts us 23 under.

Hightower is at 7.8, we would save money the first year re-doing him. Collins would go up a lot.
When you take the savings re-doing Hightower and remember that cap hits are lower in the early years, re-doing Hightower and Collins wouldn't eat much into the 23 under above. Certainly we'd still be 20 under.

It depends on what type of money he wants. I think he's going to be looking in that 11-12M/year range that Cameron Jordon got. He's simply not worth it.

BelichickFan · Jan 25, 2016

everlong said:
It depends on what type of money he wants. I think he's going to be looking in that 11-12M/year range that Cameron Jordon got. He's simply not worth it.

Agree on Jones. Point is, if we were to trade him we could do the moves I mentioned and re-do High and Collins and still be about 15 under. Keeping Jones, still be about 7 under. And there's other ways to save money (Amendola plus others), I just mentioned the quick, easy ones.

PatriotsPimp136 · Jan 25, 2016

For once we can't blame the defense. They left it all on the field. This offensive line looked like a dumpster.

everlong · Jan 25, 2016

BelichickFan said:
Agree on Jones. Point is, if we were to trade him we could do the moves I mentioned and re-do High and Collins and still be about 15 under. Keeping Jones, still be about 7 under. And there's other ways to save money (Amendola plus others), I just mentioned the quick, easy ones.

Cut LaFell and Chandler is where I would start. Plus if they get a first for Jones they can draft an OT.

luuked · Jan 25, 2016

everlong said:
I'm not one to kill the OC over the years but this is the most egregious lack of adjustments and in general an awful game plan. Who leaves Marcus Cannon on an island against Von Miller all day long? Not to play the Charlie Weiss card but he would have been chipping Miller and Ware. Brady had less than 2 seconds on probably 75% of the snaps and yet more often than not Vollmer and Cannon were one on one and getting spanked.

Josh has Mike Martz disease. He just cannot get away from the spread and thinks eventually it will work. It usually does but not since SB 42 have I been yelling you have to give them help at the screen. My daughter plays soccer and is really fast. I'm always telling her to use her speed more and try to explain that TIME + SPACE = OPPORTUNITY. In Josh's case I'm convinced he thinks Space will ensure Time and opportunity. Sorry but Charlie understood that a half second spent on a chip can equal a second or two gained for time which will equate to more space and opportunity.

Epic fail. They should have been chipping from the start and bare minimum adjusted.

Not trying to mock you because you are among the first to at least go into depth in criticism but if it was just about chipping people don't you think BB would have seen that and made sure they adjust for that ? He has seen so much through all his time in the league and I would be shocked if he wouldnt have just told Josh to adjust for it.

everlong said:
7. JE and DA with Meh days at best.
8. Good bye Brandon LaFell and Scott Chandler.

Think we will here some leaks in the coming weeks about how injured LaFell and Chandler really were. Wouldn't be surprised to see them both back. If the Chandler knee injury is just a red herring that was posted by some of the beat writers and it really was him falling out of favor then it will definitely be goodbye.

One of the major mysteries for is why we never saw those awesome redzone, 3 TE formations from the first two games again during the regular season. I understand that we traded Hooman but I am sure Williams could have run his endzone route anyway.

everlong said:
9. Why it took Josh until nearly the end of the game to get White so involved was also a mystery.

Think they tried to isolate him a few times on the linebacker but it only worked on those deep routes where he barely missed the catch like 3 times ? Think that Denver just handled him well. And I wouldn't be surprised after McD repeatedly scorching a Wade defense with exactly those speedy RB on a LB plays. I think the entire rout of the Texans in 2012 at Foxboro was based on them.

everlong said:
I would trade Chandler Jones this off-season and sign Hightower and Collins to extensions. Doing all three would be tough with the cap. I think you can get at least a first for him and probably more. The combination Sheard, Nink, Flowers and Grissom gives us good depth if no stars. I know he was hurt but so were Hightower and Collins and yet they made a lot of plays. Jones was invisible in both playoff games.

I wrote something similar in the draft sub forum. If you trade Chandler Jones in some package with another lower draft pick you might be able to get a somewhat reasonably high second round pick to account for the stolen first round pick. You also save around 7,8m in cap space. Think it is unlikely especially because Ninkovich is getting there in terms of age which means we'd have to replace two players within two years but it would not shock me if it happened.

luuked · Jan 25, 2016

Rob0729 said:
His knee clearly hit the ground before he landed on the defender. It was clear either an incomplete pass or a first down (down by contact) and nowhere in between.

True. Unfortunately the ball appeared to be stuck between his hand and the Denver defenders which looked like he didn't have full control. That's why I guess they ruled it incomplete upon review.

Game Thoughts: No Rocky Mountain High for this team Edition

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