Team needs?

Before discussing prospects and mocks, maybe it would be best to start with team needs. Any thoughts on this? Clearly OL and one or two more players that can get open, but there are other needs.

OL, RB, a legit #1 WR that can stretch the field. A WR to replace LaDrop. A LB to replace Mayo because I think he is a goner. DE, DT,

Offense
Offense
Offense

and maybe a backup LB and CB.

2016 NFL Draft
2nd Round - Offensive Guard or Offensive Tackle
3rd Round - Offensive Guard or Offensive Tackle
3rd Round Compensatory - Running Back
4th Round - Cornerback
6th Round - Linebacker
7th Round - Running Back
7th Round - Tight End

Tom Brady deserves better than Josh Kline and Cameron Fleming.

New offensive line coach.

manxman2601 said:

Offense
Offense
Offense

and maybe a backup LB and CB.

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Happy to be finally back full time in the draft forum. The crazyness in the main board is too much for me to take.

I said it a few times already but I think it is time to draft another tackle to groom behind Vollmer/Solder. Vollmer is getting older and maybe one severe injury/concussion away from calling it a day. And while I don't want to send Cannon to Antarctica like most probably the majority in the asylum that is the main board I think he showed this year that he is nothing more than situational depth.

Now, the forfeited draft pick might make it a bit complicated to get one of the "more ready" tackle prospects so I guess this might cause us to double dip for a average low-ceiling player that is somewhat pro ready (day 2 ? revis compensatory pick ?) and a high potential project that might need a while (day 3). So far I have not been impressed with how DeGuglielmo developed talent compared to Scar but I will give him one more offseason before starting to be concerned.

Going against popular opinion I don't think we will invest much into Guards. I wouldn't be surprised if we go for a WR and a LB with the other day 2 picks.

As always all of that will become clearer once we see how FA shakes out.. if we can scrape Mingo off the Browns in FA and maybe get Mayo on a one year prove it deal then the need for another LB disappears immediately..

Also, and this is a bold prediction.. I would not be surprised if Chandler Jones will be traded as part of some kind of draft pick shenanigan to get a very high second round pick to account for #30. He has faded towards the end of season now multiple years in row, he got into trouble with his synthetic weed debacle in a playoff week and we could save 7,8m on the cap by trading him on his final year of the rookie contract. So his cap number fits easily onto many teams that need pass rushers and they could get him for another year via tag.

Not saying it is likely but I would not be surprised one bit by it.

luuked said:

Happy to be finally back full time in the draft forum. The crazyness in the main board is too much for me to take.

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If only it could have been 2 weeks from now.... On the other hand, after really watching Carolina this postseason there was no way we were going to beat them. Both the Pats and Cats started 10-0, but the Patriots regressed from there while the Panthers continued to improve. Let's hope we can be that team again next year (while I still realize just how darn spoiled we've been and that the 2015 team would have been the 2nd or 3rd best Patriots team in franchise history if this were 1995 again).

luuked said:

I said it a few times already but I think it is time to draft another tackle to groom behind Vollmer/Solder. Vollmer is getting older and maybe one severe injury/concussion away from calling it a day. And while I don't want to send Cannon to Antarctica like most probably the majority in the asylum that is the main board I think he showed this year that he is nothing more than situational depth.

Now, the forfeited draft pick might make it a bit complicated to get one of the "more ready" tackle prospects so I guess this might cause us to double dip for a average low-ceiling player that is somewhat pro ready (day 2 ? revis compensatory pick ?) and a high potential project that might need a while (day 3). So far I have not been impressed with how DeGuglielmo developed talent compared to Scar but I will give him one more offseason before starting to be concerned.

Going against popular opinion I don't think we will invest much into Guards. I wouldn't be surprised if we go for a WR and a LB with the other day 2 picks.

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Pretty much agree with the concepts. It appears that there are no real studs available at TE again this year where we would be drafting, and next year's class is looking really good, so we might as well go the free agent route again. Tackle is definitely a need. Ideally we could draft a #3 swing guy to replace Cannon simply because of Cannon's salary, and have that guy be someone who can be groomed to take over for either of the starters if we decide to move on from them when their contracts were up. Sort of like the Solder pick in 2011. Highly unlikely we'll get someone like that at Pick #60 (where we are scheduled right now), but trade-ups could make it a possibility.

luuked said:

As always all of that will become clearer once we see how FA shakes out.. if we can scrape Mingo off the Browns in FA and maybe get Mayo on a one year prove it deal then the need for another LB disappears immediately..

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I'd like to think we can bring Mayo back on the prove-it deal you mention. But to the best of my knowledge Mingo isn't a free agent - he was a 1st round pick in 2013 so he has a 4 year contract (through 2016) plus 5th year option. We do know that Mingo was on the trading block and is on the outs in Cleveland; it's possible he could be cut but more likely we might be able to get him for a mid-round pick if we thought it was worth it. I like the thought process here, though, as he was Lombardi's 1st round pick and Lombardi's been knocking it out of the park for us.

luuked said:

Also, and this is a bold prediction.. I would not be surprised if Chandler Jones will be traded as part of some kind of draft pick shenanigan to get a very high second round pick to account for #30. He has faded towards the end of season now multiple years in row, he got into trouble with his synthetic weed debacle in a playoff week and we could save 7,8m on the cap by trading him on his final year of the rookie contract. So his cap number fits easily onto many teams that need pass rushers and they could get him for another year via tag.

Not saying it is likely but I would not be surprised one bit by it.

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I wonder if the synthetic weed issue is going to harm his trade value. That said, pass rushers always have a ton of value. This is certainly one way to free up cap space and get a higher pick (maybe trade with Chip Kelly and the 49ers for pick 37 and a 2nd rounder in 2017). Now, the flip side is, can we really afford to lose him? Are we that confident in Flowers and Rufus Johnson to step in as part of a Ninkovich and Sheard rotation?

In no specific order:
Halfback, Powerback, Veteran OG, Swing T, Receiving TE, Wideout, Slot Depth, LB depth, Vet CB

luuked said:

Happy to be finally back full time in the draft forum. The crazyness in the main board is too much for me to take.

I said it a few times already but I think it is time to draft another tackle to groom behind Vollmer/Solder. Vollmer is getting older and maybe one severe injury/concussion away from calling it a day. And while I don't want to send Cannon to Antarctica like most probably the majority in the asylum that is the main board I think he showed this year that he is nothing more than situational depth.

Now, the forfeited draft pick might make it a bit complicated to get one of the "more ready" tackle prospects so I guess this might cause us to double dip for a average low-ceiling player that is somewhat pro ready (day 2 ? revis compensatory pick ?) and a high potential project that might need a while (day 3). So far I have not been impressed with how DeGuglielmo developed talent compared to Scar but I will give him one more offseason before starting to be concerned.

Going against popular opinion I don't think we will invest much into Guards. I wouldn't be surprised if we go for a WR and a LB with the other day 2 picks.

As always all of that will become clearer once we see how FA shakes out.. if we can scrape Mingo off the Browns in FA and maybe get Mayo on a one year prove it deal then the need for another LB disappears immediately..

Also, and this is a bold prediction.. I would not be surprised if Chandler Jones will be traded as part of some kind of draft pick shenanigan to get a very high second round pick to account for #30. He has faded towards the end of season now multiple years in row, he got into trouble with his synthetic weed debacle in a playoff week and we could save 7,8m on the cap by trading him on his final year of the rookie contract. So his cap number fits easily onto many teams that need pass rushers and they could get him for another year via tag.

Not saying it is likely but I would not be surprised one bit by it.

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I haven't been on the main board but is Vollmer getting as much grief as Cannon because he should. Guy was a turnstile yesterday. Barely laid a finger on Ayers.

manxman2601 said:

I haven't been on the main board but is Vollmer getting as much grief as Cannon because he should. Guy was a turnstile yesterday. Barely laid a finger on Ayers.

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I've been there. The Broncos defense slammed two linemen into Brady's side, Chief. We was comin’ back from Sports Authority Field at Mile High. Pats o-line just delivered a bomb. The Denver bomb. 1,100 Pats fans went into the main forum. Patsfans.com went down in 60 minutes.

Didn’t see the first shark for about a half-hour. Jet fan. 6-footer. You know how you know that in the main forum, Chief? You can tell by lookin’ from the fireman's hat to the feet. What we didn’t know, was that our mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. 522 error. They didn’t even list us offline for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin’ by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin’ and hollerin’ and sometimes that shark he go away… but sometimes he wouldn’t go away.

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like Roger Goodell's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn’t even seem to be livin’… ’til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then… ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’. The main forum turns red, and despite all your poundin’ and your hollerin’ those sharks come in and… they rip you to pieces.

You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don’t know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Monday mornin’, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Dikembe from Atlanta. Basketball player. Patsfans.com's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the main forum, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he’d been bitten in half below the waist.

At noon on the second day, a level-headed poster swung in low and he spotted us, a young poster, lot younger than Mr. luuked here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol’ fat draft forum link popped up and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin’ for my turn through the main forum. I’ll never go into the game day thread again. So, eleven hundred men went into the main forum. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, January the 24th, 2016.

Anyway, I went into the main forum. Vollmer's been getting a free pass because of playing out of position and injury.

Hammer of Thor said:

I've been there. The Broncos defense slammed two linemen into Brady's side, Chief. We was comin’ back from Sports Authority Field at Mile High. Pats o-line just delivered a bomb. The Denver bomb. 1,100 Pats fans went into the main forum. Patsfans.com went down in 60 minutes.

Didn’t see the first shark for about a half-hour. Jet fan. 6-footer. You know how you know that in the main forum, Chief? You can tell by lookin’ from the fireman's hat to the feet. What we didn’t know, was that our mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. 522 error. They didn’t even list us offline for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin’ by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin’ and hollerin’ and sometimes that shark he go away… but sometimes he wouldn’t go away.

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like Roger Goodell's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn’t even seem to be livin’… ’til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then… ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’. The main forum turns red, and despite all your poundin’ and your hollerin’ those sharks come in and… they rip you to pieces.

You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don’t know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Monday mornin’, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Dikembe from Atlanta. Basketball player. Patsfans.com's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the main forum, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he’d been bitten in half below the waist.

At noon on the second day, a level-headed poster swung in low and he spotted us, a young poster, lot younger than Mr. luuked here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol’ fat draft forum link popped up and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin’ for my turn through the main forum. I’ll never go into the game day thread again. So, eleven hundred men went into the main forum. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, January the 24th, 2016.

Anyway, I went into the main forum. Vollmer's been getting a free pass because of playing out of position and injury.

Click to expand...

Ermmm. Thanks. Most creative and entertaining answer to a simple question I've read.

Hammer of Thor said:

I've been there. The Broncos defense slammed two linemen into Brady's side, Chief. We was comin’ back from Sports Authority Field at Mile High. Pats o-line just delivered a bomb. The Denver bomb. 1,100 Pats fans went into the main forum. Patsfans.com went down in 60 minutes.

Didn’t see the first shark for about a half-hour. Jet fan. 6-footer. You know how you know that in the main forum, Chief? You can tell by lookin’ from the fireman's hat to the feet. What we didn’t know, was that our mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. 522 error. They didn’t even list us offline for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin’ by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin’ and hollerin’ and sometimes that shark he go away… but sometimes he wouldn’t go away.

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like Roger Goodell's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn’t even seem to be livin’… ’til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then… ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’. The main forum turns red, and despite all your poundin’ and your hollerin’ those sharks come in and… they rip you to pieces.

You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don’t know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Monday mornin’, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Dikembe from Atlanta. Basketball player. Patsfans.com's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the main forum, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he’d been bitten in half below the waist.

At noon on the second day, a level-headed poster swung in low and he spotted us, a young poster, lot younger than Mr. luuked here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol’ fat draft forum link popped up and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin’ for my turn through the main forum. I’ll never go into the game day thread again. So, eleven hundred men went into the main forum. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, January the 24th, 2016.

Anyway, I went into the main forum. Vollmer's been getting a free pass because of playing out of position and injury.

Click to expand...

I dont know what that is but writing it definitely showed more effort than our OL yesterday.

manxman2601 said:

Ermmm. Thanks. Most creative and entertaining answer to a simple question I've read.

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Yeah people over there tend to follow the shiney things so no one is talking about how Stork had a tell all game when he was about to snap, how we didnt change cadence for the entire game so Miller/Ware knew exactly when to attack but instead lets talk about how Belichick screwed it up by not deferring ect. it really is a cesspool..

Vollmer isnt mentioned at all, also not by anyone in thr media really. And quite honestly it is difficult to evaluate how healthy he was. Playing LT instead of RT where all his muscle memory is also of course didnt help.

Finally as usual if the LT cant trust the LG then there are even more issues. And I think we were at a point where not a single OL player was comfortable anymore.

Hammer of Thor said:

I wonder if the synthetic weed issue is going to harm his trade value. That said, pass rushers always have a ton of value. This is certainly one way to free up cap space and get a higher pick (maybe trade with Chip Kelly and the 49ers for pick 37 and a 2nd rounder in 2017). Now, the flip side is, can we really afford to lose him? Are we that confident in Flowers and Rufus Johnson to step in as part of a Ninkovich and Sheard rotation?

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Good question about the weed. My guess is this would only harm his value if he entered the NFL substance abuse program for it and I am not sure if synthetic weed qualifies. Unfortunately, I doubt we will get any update on that except for the odd leak.

I didn't consider Chip Kelly and it could actually be a good landing spot I guess and the NE connection checks out.

Chandler Jones is so hard to evaluate because very often his best performances come in games where we are dominant anyway. Very rarely does he make a play in tough, close games. I was pleasantly surprised by the ball he knocked free against the Chiefs but that was pretty much his only play since December.

Ninko is getting there in terms of age and might have 1-2 good seasons in him. So either way we will soon be forced to get some reinforcements for the edge rusher position.

In summary I dont know if we can afford to lose him and that's why I called it a bold prediction, but he seems to be in that sweet spot where he has some national name recognition that might yield a nice draft pick but at the same time is not really such a big difference maker for us.

Hammer of Thor said:

On the other hand, after really watching Carolina this postseason there was no way we were going to beat them. Both the Pats and Cats started 10-0, but the Patriots regressed from there while the Panthers continued to improve. Let's hope we can be that team again next year (while I still realize just how darn spoiled we've been and that the 2015 team would have been the 2nd or 3rd best Patriots team in franchise history if this were 1995 again).

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I don't wanna sound like a Homer but I think we could have handled Carolina.

Our run defense seemed to be on point just in time. If Chung, Butler and Ryan would play up to their overall year standards we could have kept them under 20 points.

On offense we could have exploited a handful secondary matchups against them. There are nowhere close to the compactness that was the Denver secondary.

It would all come down to playing turnover free football.

manxman2601 said:

Ermmm. Thanks. Most creative and entertaining answer to a simple question I've read.

Click to expand...

luuked said:

I dont know what that is but writing it definitely showed more effort than our OL yesterday.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I saw the main forum question and for some reason an old, grizzled, sage, weary sea captain came to my head, "oh, I've been there...." That made me think of the Indianapolis monologue in the movie Jaws. My post was just a copy/paste of that with some situational editing.

Things do seem to be calming down a bit on the main forum after the Googs firing. The Sharks got fed. Not that I blame them on that one; from my limited insight into the situation Googs just seemed like a complete personality clash with Belichick and his overall philosophy. Look at it this way - I've seen more quotes by Googs in the media the last 2 years than any other Patriot position coach over the 16 year span, and that includes Scar. Belichick couldn't have liked that. Players can sense when someone doesn't fully buy into the program, and if that's your position coach, it's going to affect your performance (even subliminally).

Hammer of Thor said:

Things do seem to be calming down a bit on the main forum after the Googs firing. The Sharks got fed. Not that I blame them on that one; from my limited insight into the situation Googs just seemed like a complete personality clash with Belichick and his overall philosophy. Look at it this way - I've seen more quotes by Googs in the media the last 2 years than any other Patriot position coach over the 16 year span, and that includes Scar. Belichick couldn't have liked that. Players can sense when someone doesn't fully buy into the program, and if that's your position coach, it's going to affect your performance (even subliminally).

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I agree with that. I was dumbfounded a bit when first read last Spring that Scar is helping out during the draft process because I felt that it undercuts the authority of the current coordinator if the ex is voicing his opinion. But then I just shrugged it off as an all hands on approach since they lost some scouting time after the SB run. Now in hindsight this should have been the first warning sign that there was an issue.

Obviously, we will never get the full story but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Googe simply had a different philosophy in mind for his OL and BB wanted to hang on to the Dante Scarnecchia mold of players. I have said it in other threads but this would then suddenly also explain why players like Devey were such unmitigated disasters. Scar saw something in him that he thought he could coach up while Googe just could not handle that.

Linebacker seems like that sneaky important one, we can say o-line all we want but it's not as though the pats don't have pieces they just couldn't make it work and obviously they wernt happy with the coaching more than the talent.

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What does anyone think about Cody Whitehair falling to our 2nd rounder. Stock is too high currently but he's they type that might fall. Might be undersized for an OT but I wouldn't mind drafting a LG, switching Shaq to RG where I think he's more comfortable and having Tre as a backup.

"I think he's probably better at guard in our league, but he might be able to play all five positions if needed," an AFC scout told NFLDraftScout.com. "He knows how to neutralize speed off the edge or quickness inside ... very, very well-coached and it shows on film."

Cody Whitehair, OG, Kansas State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

luuked said:

Going against popular opinion I don't think we will invest much into Guards. I wouldn't be surprised if we go for a WR and a LB with the other day 2 picks.
.

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Gawd I hope not. BB should never ever be allowed to draft a WR before round 6.

Guard, Tackle, or CB

meatface said:

...we can say o-line all we want but it's not as though the pats don't have pieces they just couldn't make it work and obviously they wernt happy with the coaching more than the talent.

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They might have some pieces, if those pieces are all healthy, but they certainly don't have all the pieces.