My way too early 2016 team building thread

Gabriel_p94 said:

Apparently Matt Miller has Derrick Henry grade as the sixth best rb in the class. I don't see it at all. But if that is the case, then I will be more than excited. If he could be had in the fourth or later I think he would be great value.

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I do question his vision. He's just so much bigger than everyone else, he doesn't have to be patient, but that won't work at all in the pros.

Others have developed that skill, but he won't last without it.

I.M. Fletcher said:

Agreed. While we are well positioned at certain areas, one or two cuts and we look like the 2013 version patriots.

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By the way, I watched some Josh ferguson highlights. Not sure he fits with Lewis and White on the roster - he's not an inside runner - but cripes, that guy has some serious explosion in space.

manxman2601 said:

By the way, I watched some Josh ferguson highlights. Not sure he fits with Lewis and White on the roster - he's not an inside runner - but cripes, that guy has some serious explosion in space.

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agreed. If white cements his place on this team over the next 4-7 weeks, Ferguson wont have much of a role on this team. But man, someone is going to get a player.

I.M. Fletcher said:

agreed. If white cements his place on this team over the next 4-7 weeks, Ferguson wont have much of a role on this team. But man, someone is going to get a player.

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What more would he have to do to "prove" his role. Guy has played well and would likely be the reserve back. I guess if you want to see if he can be the #1

meatface said:

What more would he have to do to "prove" his role. Guy has played well and would likely be the reserve back. I guess if you want to see if he can be the #1

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I think he is great as a reserve back at this point, but I am interested to see if he can develop some confidence over the rest of the season. I still see him as significantly behind Lewis at what he offers, but hopefully that changes, cause we dont know what to expect going in to next season with Lewis.

I.M. Fletcher said:

I think he is great as a reserve back at this point, but I am interested to see if he can develop some confidence over the rest of the season. I still see him as significantly behind Lewis at what he offers, but hopefully that changes, cause we dont know what to expect going in to next season with Lewis.

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It would seem likely to change off-season priorities if white or Bolden started looking like more than a reserve option, especially with the uncertainty with Dion Lewis

Updated 2016 off season plan

To start with lets do in house (Some guys like Robert, Flemming, ect... go on PS) FA only.

Cuts

Mayo (Thanks for the service but now it has to happen)
Cannon (use that money to get a better backup OT)
Chandler (Just has not done enough.. better off trying again)
Chris Jones (Sad to see him go but Siliga is who i keep)
Blount (I have barely seen any flashes from him... this is more about making use of the spot more than the money)
Lafell (This is not about his play... He had a good year and now a bad year... this issue is he lost Brady's trust. He is out of the Tom Brady C.O.T. I'm pretty sure. So may as well part ways)

Sign

Hicks - I want him around
Waddle - In very limited action I liked him okay. He gets a small show me deal but is here to be the 4th OT

Renegotiations - Amendola (cut his cap number in half to stay but is signed an extra year)

Offense - 18

QB - 2 - Brady Garo
TE - 1 - Gronk
RB - 4 - Lewis White Bolden Develin
OT - 3 - Solder Vollmer ? Waddle
OG/C - 5 - Stork Jackson Mason Andrews Kline
WR -3 - Edelman Amendola Martin

Defense - 22

DT - 5 - Easley Brown Branch Hicks Siliga
DE - 5 - Jones Sheard Nink Flowers Grissom
LB - 3 - Collins Hightower Freeney
CB - 4 - Butler Ryan L. Johnson Coleman
S - 5 - McCourty Chung Richards Harmon Ebner

STs - 4 - Gost Allen Cardona Slater

So these is my roster going into FA. I would expect all these guys to make the team (except maybe Waddle) and I am not adding in JAGs like Williams or Derby @ TE yet.

Now for FA pick ups obviously there are a few spots that would be good to hit and the Pats will have money to do it.

OT - IDK who i want yet.. A lot has to work itself out there but I would aim for a legit starting caliber player. (TBD)

WR - Sanu (This spot will be addressed in the draft too but for now bring in an outside vet WR so you have something ready to go there)

LB - Derrick Johnson - The ideal vet short term rental. He will be a pretty good impact guy

TE - Ben Watson - We know he will work here. Still draft a guy but he is a legit #2

CB - Janoris Jenkins - The top end pick up this year. Ryan has done well but he is best served as a #3 i think. This guy behind Butler be great.

So you have a few holes going into the draft but you add on both sides of the ball overall.

Offense - 21

QB - 2 - Brady Garo
TE - 2 - Gronk Watson
RB - 4 - Lewis White Bolden Develin
OT - 4 - Solder Vollmer TBD-FA Waddle
OG/C - 5 - Stork Jackson Mason Andrews Kline
WR - 4 - Edelman Amendola Martin Sanu

Defense - 24

DT - 5 - Easley Brown Branch Hicks Siliga
DE - 5 - Jones Sheard Nink Flowers Grisso
LB - 4 - Hightower Collins D. Johnson* Freeney
CB - 5 - Butler Jenkins* Ryan L. Johnson Coleman
S - 5 - McCourty Chung Richards Harmon Ebner

STs - 4 - Gost Allen Cardona Slater


So now going into the draft we have a better idea of our needs.

I draft

Sterling Shepard - WR
Bryce William - TE (Maybe)
Kyle Fackless - LB

RB - to be named... Maybe CJ Prosise


After that you bring in a bunch of UDFA, low picks and low risk high upside JAGs and see what happens.

BobDigital said:

Mayo (Thanks for the service but now it has to happen)
Cannon (use that money to get a better backup OT)
Chandler (Just has not done enough.. better off trying again)
Chris Jones (Sad to see him go but Siliga is who i keep)
Blount (I have barely seen any flashes from him... this is more about making use of the spot more than the money)
Lafell (This is not about his play... He had a good year and now a bad year... this issue is he lost Brady's trust. He is out of the Tom Brady C.O.T. I'm pretty sure. So may as well part ways)

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I am not sure you are underestimating how hard it would be to find an upgrade over everything Cannon does as a swing tackle for that amount of money. I understand that it is apparently popular right now to **** on him but I gotta trust the coaching staff in what they are seeing every day in practice and the film room over media/fan reactions.

Similarly, if you look at film of LaFell from last year and compare to how he runs this year I think it is pretty obvious that he never fully recovered from his foot injury. I think he will get at least another offseason/preseason to get healthy.

Scott Chandler remains a question mark for me. Beat reporters are continuously saying that he actually has pretty serious knee issues that keeps him on the verge of being active. One would think that this should get better at some point or the team would have moved him onto IR. If all of this is hogwash and he simply fell out of favor with McD and Brady then I guess we will move on. However he looked relatively good until around the Denver game so I really wanna believe that his injury keeps on on the sideline because on paper he is the ideal redzone partner for Gronk.

In terms of Blount I think it will be up to whether he would accept a low contract (vet min?). If he does I am pretty certain that we will at the very least keep him until cuts in camp.

BobDigital said:

Updated 2016 off season plan

To start with lets do in house (Some guys like Robert, Flemming, ect... go on PS) FA only.

Cuts

Mayo (Thanks for the service but now it has to happen)
Cannon (use that money to get a better backup OT)
Chandler (Just has not done enough.. better off trying again)
Chris Jones (Sad to see him go but Siliga is who i keep)
Blount (I have barely seen any flashes from him... this is more about making use of the spot more than the money)
Lafell (This is not about his play... He had a good year and now a bad year... this issue is he lost Brady's trust. He is out of the Tom Brady C.O.T. I'm pretty sure. So may as well part ways)

Sign

Hicks - I want him around
Waddle - In very limited action I liked him okay. He gets a small show me deal but is here to be the 4th OT

Renegotiations - Amendola (cut his cap number in half to stay but is signed an extra year)

Offense - 18

QB - 2 - Brady Garo
TE - 1 - Gronk
RB - 4 - Lewis White Bolden Develin
OT - 3 - Solder Vollmer ? Waddle
OG/C - 5 - Stork Jackson Mason Andrews Kline
WR -3 - Edelman Amendola Martin

Defense - 22

DT - 5 - Easley Brown Branch Hicks Siliga
DE - 5 - Jones Sheard Nink Flowers Grissom
LB - 3 - Collins Hightower Freeney
CB - 4 - Butler Ryan L. Johnson Coleman
S - 5 - McCourty Chung Richards Harmon Ebner

STs - 4 - Gost Allen Cardona Slater

So these is my roster going into FA. I would expect all these guys to make the team (except maybe Waddle) and I am not adding in JAGs like Williams or Derby @ TE yet.

Now for FA pick ups obviously there are a few spots that would be good to hit and the Pats will have money to do it.

OT - IDK who i want yet.. A lot has to work itself out there but I would aim for a legit starting caliber player. (TBD)

WR - Sanu (This spot will be addressed in the draft too but for now bring in an outside vet WR so you have something ready to go there)

LB - Derrick Johnson - The ideal vet short term rental. He will be a pretty good impact guy

TE - Ben Watson - We know he will work here. Still draft a guy but he is a legit #2

CB - Janoris Jenkins - The top end pick up this year. Ryan has done well but he is best served as a #3 i think. This guy behind Butler be great.

So you have a few holes going into the draft but you add on both sides of the ball overall.

Offense - 21

QB - 2 - Brady Garo
TE - 2 - Gronk Watson
RB - 4 - Lewis White Bolden Develin
OT - 4 - Solder Vollmer TBD-FA Waddle
OG/C - 5 - Stork Jackson Mason Andrews Kline
WR - 4 - Edelman Amendola Martin Sanu

Defense - 24

DT - 5 - Easley Brown Branch Hicks Siliga
DE - 5 - Jones Sheard Nink Flowers Grisso
LB - 4 - Hightower Collins D. Johnson* Freeney
CB - 5 - Butler Jenkins* Ryan L. Johnson Coleman
S - 5 - McCourty Chung Richards Harmon Ebner

STs - 4 - Gost Allen Cardona Slater


So now going into the draft we have a better idea of our needs.

I draft

Sterling Shepard - WR
Bryce William - TE (Maybe)
Kyle Fackless - LB

RB - to be named... Maybe CJ Prosise


After that you bring in a bunch of UDFA, low picks and low risk high upside JAGs and see what happens.

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I see that you don't have Dobson making the roster. Now I know he isn't always there due to health problems but I think BB will keep him because of his familiarity with system and also he's on the last year of his rookie deal. So with that being said i have a feeling that Dobson is going to do whatever he can to be in peak condition once training camp comes around. Also if you think about his rookie year ( I know we're far from then) he and Brady had a pretty good connection and I think if it weren't for him being put on ir this season they might have gotten on the same page again. If you were to look at the giants game he got some play once Edelman went down and Brady was looking his way, he had a few passes that Brady missed on and had Brady had an extra second to throw he could of caught a deep pass that may have been a game winner. So maybe its just me holding on to hope that he can produce for us but I do think that we maybe selling him short a bit.

luuked said:

I am not sure you are underestimating how hard it would be to find an upgrade over everything Cannon does as a swing tackle for that amount of money. I understand that it is apparently popular right now to **** on him but I gotta trust the coaching staff in what they are seeing every day in practice and the film room over media/fan reactions...

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At this point, I don't give a rat's ass what Cannonfodder does in practice or in the film room.
On game day, he's putrid, especially for the money he's stealing. He deserves not even one penny more
than the vet minimum. Tre Jackson & Cam Fleming can suck just as well at a fraction of the cost.
And BTW, Cannon's NOT a Swing Tackle; he has no business whatsoever on the left side of the OL.

I am not as down on cannon as @captain stone is, but the salary alone make it impossible to bring him back.

He's getting paid more than vollmer, and like a top 15 right tackle. That's not going to work. With that said, we will need him badly to win this superbowl.

captain stone said:

At this point, I don't give a rat's ass what Cannonfodder does in practice or in the film room.
On game day, he's putrid, especially for the money he's stealing. He deserves not even one penny more
than the vet minimum. Tre Jackson & Cam Fleming can suck just as well at a fraction of the cost.
And BTW, Cannon's NOT a Swing Tackle; he has no business whatsoever on the left side of the OL.

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ill just leave this Bill Belichick quote here
"Marcus [Cannon] did a great job over there on the right side. He had some very, very good blocks – pass blocks"
But then again you know how BB is always heaping praise on people

I.M. Fletcher said:

I am not as down on cannon as @captain stone is, but the salary alone make it impossible to bring him back.

He's getting paid more than vollmer, and like a top 15 right tackle. That's not going to work. With that said, we will need him badly to win this superbowl.

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I don't think anyone here assumes that Cannon will be back on the same contract. I am just not sure how easy it will be to find a cheap upgrade over him.

I would not sign Hightower till the end of next year. The guy is a wonderful player but is dinged up constantly. 10 mill for a guy with shoulder issues is not comforting.

Malcolm Butler would not sign for that. The way he is playing dictates 10mill a year. now you can extend him for 30mill plus the 3 mill that he would get over the next two years so I figure more like 5 and 35 with a 10M SB

patman52 said:

I would not sign Hightower till the end of next year. The guy is a wonderful player but is dinged up constantly. 10 mill for a guy with shoulder issues is not comforting.

Malcolm Butler would not sign for that. The way he is playing dictates 10mill a year. now you can extend him for 30mill plus the 3 mill that he would get over the next two years so I figure more like 5 and 35 with a 10M SB

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Butler is going to be a really interesting case study for the other NFL teams. His leverage is his level of play, but holds none in regards to his contract situation. He could play on a lowered value for the next 3 seasons, and wouldnt be able to do anything about it.

In another thread I alluded to the idea of a contract styled after Gronks, with almost two deals being signed in one. That may be the best case scenario for Butler, where the number and promise of more is present, but the risk on the patriots for injury is negated.

I think you could float a 7yr 42-49mil and it could have some promise.
first three seasons: 9mil total. 3 mill per
final 4 seasons: 32-40 totatl. 8-10mil per

It has worked in Gronks case, as this is the longest contract any pat has played under a second contract. We will see if the team holds Butler in similar light. If not, we could see them just play hard ball with him and watch him play out his current options.

luuked said:

I am not sure you are underestimating how hard it would be to find an upgrade over everything Cannon does as a swing tackle for that amount of money. I understand that it is apparently popular right now to **** on him but I gotta trust the coaching staff in what they are seeing every day in practice and the film room over media/fan reactions.

Similarly, if you look at film of LaFell from last year and compare to how he runs this year I think it is pretty obvious that he never fully recovered from his foot injury. I think he will get at least another offseason/preseason to get healthy.

Scott Chandler remains a question mark for me. Beat reporters are continuously saying that he actually has pretty serious knee issues that keeps him on the verge of being active. One would think that this should get better at some point or the team would have moved him onto IR. If all of this is hogwash and he simply fell out of favor with McD and Brady then I guess we will move on. However he looked relatively good until around the Denver game so I really wanna believe that his injury keeps on on the sideline because on paper he is the ideal redzone partner for Gronk.

In terms of Blount I think it will be up to whether he would accept a low contract (vet min?). If he does I am pretty certain that we will at the very least keep him until cuts in camp.

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I think it would be possible to find an upgrade for Cannon assuming we are willing to spend some of our money to do it. There will be several tackles on the open market. I believe if the Pats are so inclined they will be able to find an upgrade for him and they should.

Also LaFell is another recent cut for me. I do not believe he is nearly as bad a player as he has shown this year but I do think once Tom Brady loses his trust in you then that is all. I think Tom Brady has lost his trust in Lafell so i think that is the reason they need to move on from him. If he is not outside the TBCOT then i say keep him but i think he is.

As for Chandler I just don't see the point of bringing him back. Better off taking another shot.

Gabriel_p94 said:

I see that you don't have Dobson making the roster. Now I know he isn't always there due to health problems but I think BB will keep him because of his familiarity with system and also he's on the last year of his rookie deal. So with that being said i have a feeling that Dobson is going to do whatever he can to be in peak condition once training camp comes around. Also if you think about his rookie year ( I know we're far from then) he and Brady had a pretty good connection and I think if it weren't for him being put on ir this season they might have gotten on the same page again. If you were to look at the giants game he got some play once Edelman went down and Brady was looking his way, he had a few passes that Brady missed on and had Brady had an extra second to throw he could of caught a deep pass that may have been a game winner. So maybe its just me holding on to hope that he can produce for us but I do think that we maybe selling him short a bit.

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I like Dobson but he is on the outside looking in. If we can't find anyone else keep him but as of right now he is PS or off the roster for a virtual JAG or meh vet.

I.M. Fletcher said:

Butler is going to be a really interesting case study for the other NFL teams. His leverage is his level of play, but holds none in regards to his contract situation. He could play on a lowered value for the next 3 seasons, and wouldnt be able to do anything about it.

In another thread I alluded to the idea of a contract styled after Gronks, with almost two deals being signed in one. That may be the best case scenario for Butler, where the number and promise of more is present, but the risk on the patriots for injury is negated.

I think you could float a 7yr 42-49mil and it could have some promise.
first three seasons: 9mil total. 3 mill per
final 4 seasons: 32-40 totatl. 8-10mil per

It has worked in Gronks case, as this is the longest contract any pat has played under a second contract. We will see if the team holds Butler in similar light. If not, we could see them just play hard ball with him and watch him play out his current options.

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That is exactly the kind of deal I would like him to sign and I think he would take it particularly with a signing bonus and guaranteed money in the bank. He could hold out but this is the NFL and you never know which snap will be your last. Someone offers me security for me and my family for the rest of my life and it cost be a little less in the end as opposed to rolling the dice for 3 years... I take that deal.

patman52 said:

I would not sign Hightower till the end of next year. The guy is a wonderful player but is dinged up constantly. 10 mill for a guy with shoulder issues is not comforting.SB

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Don't get me wrong i understand that it's a little troubling thinking about how many injuries he's had to his shoulders. But I'm thinking that he keeps getting the he because he rushes back from injury. During the Super Bowl his shoulder was in terrible condition but he played because of the game and when he tackled lynch in the game he completely threw Okung off of him just showed how strong he is. (My second favorite play of The game.) i think its just me being optimistic but I think with a full offseason to heal, hell be ok.

patman52 said:

I would not sign Hightower till the end of next year. The guy is a wonderful player but is dinged up constantly. 10 mill for a guy with shoulder issues is not comforting.

Malcolm Butler would not sign for that. The way he is playing dictates 10mill a year. now you can extend him for 30mill plus the 3 mill that he would get over the next two years so I figure more like 5 and 35 with a 10M SB

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I prefer Hightower to Collins so im probably biased but I want Hightower and Collins locked up as soon as possible

BobDigital said:

I think it would be possible to find an upgrade for Cannon assuming we are willing to spend some of our money to do it. There will be several tackles on the open market. I believe if the Pats are so inclined they will be able to find an upgrade for him and they should.

Also LaFell is another recent cut for me. I do not believe he is nearly as bad a player as he has shown this year but I do think once Tom Brady loses his trust in you then that is all. I think Tom Brady has lost his trust in Lafell so i think that is the reason they need to move on from him. If he is not outside the TBCOT then i say keep him but i think he is.

As for Chandler I just don't see the point of bringing him back. Better off taking another shot.



I like Dobson but he is on the outside looking in. If we can't find anyone else keep him but as of right now he is PS or off the roster for a virtual JAG or meh vet.

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I just cannot see Lafell getting cut, Brady isnt an idiot and he built a great repor with jojo last year; I dont think he will just ignore that because of this season considering his recovery from the foot injury. Then again I didnt think that the Pats would possibly cut Arrington because they only saved $1 million but they did it anyway