Mike Reiss summarizes rookie contributions in one paragraph

ViperGTS said:

Brown is reportedly turning into a stud. He will be swallowing up RBs for years to come.

Lol @Indy

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They're still in denial, they claim that both their 3rd and 4th round defensive lineman they drafted are better players than Brown... lolol

Ohhhh Indy...

BradyFTW! said:

I think people sometimes forget that Wilfork wasn't a day-one starter either. It took Wilfork about the same amount of time to become comfortable in his role, and he didn't become the dominant force that we remember him as until after his rookie season. And even then, he started his Patriots career closer to Brown in size and style than what he became from about 2006 onward. Brown is following something resembling the Wilfork arc at this point, and I'd be thrilled if that remains the case over the next few years.

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You beat me to it. You are absolutely correct. Wilfork was not a stud day 1. Took him a couple years to get there. But he was a good player, as brown appears to be. And he has just gotten better as the year has gone on just like Wilfork.

robertweathers said:

With good health and hard work Roberts will be starting the opposite side of Malcolm next year.

Collectively the FO is killing it.

I think it was Ron Wolf who said that if you can get 2 starters and 2 contributors every draft you are doing extremely well.

This is why we need to be patient with picks. Look at last year.

Last year Easley was oft-injured and so-so. While he was the same this year, he played a ton more and was #1 DT in football in QB pressures per pass play. James White is another example. Last year- zip. This year he had 40 catches and in December has been huge. Stork clearly offered immediate benefit.....oh and that #21 FA CB whatshisface... 2 Starters, 2 key contributors

2013...Collins, Ryan and Harmon. Dobson is in there too but, well....2 Starters, 1 Key player, 1 oft-injured contributor

2012....Jones, High, Ebner. 2 Starters. 1 Key STer

2011...Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon...4 Starters/key players

2010...DMC, Gronk, AH. Even Spikes was ok. 4 Starters and ProBowlers

2009...Chung, Vollmer and JE11 3 Starters

2008.....Mayo and Slater...2 ProBowlers

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2013.... Dobson was not really a contributor except for maybe one year. Dobson was a bust.

Hernandez hurt this team more than he helped it. He screwed the salary cap quite a bit for a while and that was more negative than his contributions were positive.

Interception said:

2013.... Dobson was not really a contributor except for maybe one year. Dobson was a bust.

Hernandez hurt this team more than he helped it. He screwed the salary cap quite a bit for a while and that was more negative than his contributions were positive.

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Both AD and AH produced and contributed.

Interception said:

2013.... Dobson was not really a contributor except for maybe one year. Dobson was a bust.

Hernandez hurt this team more than he helped it. He screwed the salary cap quite a bit for a while and that was more negative than his contributions were positive.

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IMO, there are three kinds of busts, with the third being the "most unforgivable":

(1) Injury busts. This is where a player fails to make an impact because of poor luck with injuries. See: Tyrone Mckenzie, Dobson.
(2) Flyer/scheme busts. This is where a team takes a chance on a player and that chance fails to pan out. It requires that the pick have made some sense at the time. Aaron Hernandez falls here, as does Ras-I Dowling, because he did have injury concerns his senior year, even if they were IMO overblown.
(3) True busts. This is rare, and is reserved for cases where the team simply should have known better at the time. This does not include players who are simply way overdrafted; it means that either a team ignored obvious red flags and over-drafted a player, or there was essentially no hope of success when that player was drafted. The only Patriots draftee from the last decade that I would classify as a "true bust" is Ron Brace. (Even Tavon Wilson would fall into (2) for me.)

Please note that I would also argue that no player picked after round 4 can be considered a bust at all; the failure rate in those rounds is simply too high.

vyrago said:

Usually when people say this they are talking about WRs, no?

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No. Well, yes they say that about WR's, but no, because many here think he sucks at drafting in general. Many in the media agree.

ctpatsfan77 said:

IMO, there are three kinds of busts, with the third being the "most unforgivable":
...
(3) True busts. This is rare, and is reserved for cases where the team simply should have known better at the time. This does not include players who are simply way overdrafted; it means that either a team ignored obvious red flags and over-drafted a player, or there was essentially no hope of success when that player was drafted. The only Patriots draftee from the last decade that I would classify as a "true bust" is Ron Brace. (Even Tavon Wilson would fall into (2) for me.)

Please note that I would also argue that no player picked after round 4 can be considered a bust at all; the failure rate in those rounds is simply too high.

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*cough* Crable *cough*

That dude was so bad, his pro highlight real is of him packing up his locker.

Interception said:

2013.... Dobson was not really a contributor except for maybe one year. Dobson was a bust.

Hernandez hurt this team more than he helped it. He screwed the salary cap quite a bit for a while and that was more negative than his contributions were positive.

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Dobson's been an absolute bust, but your Hernandez comment is ridiculous.

Always find the aspersions cast at BB that he does not know how to draft interesting.. in the absence of examining every team and how they do, how can any fan compare??

The reality is every team every year has some hits and some misses.. the draft is a crap shoot at best.. then there is the predictable BB drafted __________________ (insert name) and passed on _____________ (insert name), while not recognizing that usually 30 other teams passed on the same player..

DarrylS said:

Always find the aspersions cast at BB that he does not know how to draft interesting.. in the absence of examining every team and how they do, how can any fan compare??

The reality is every team every year has some hits and some misses.. the draft is a crap shoot at best.. then there is the predictable BB drafted __________________ (insert name) and passed on _____________ (insert name), while not recognizing that usually 30 other teams passed on the same player..

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The Patriots had a period of time where they were terrible at drafting, and it probably cost them a Super Bowl or two. It was fair for people to be on the team, and BB, about that. He's a good GM, but he's made his share of major blunders, and he's clearly struggled drafting certain positions in recent years.

DarrylS said:

BB does not know how to draft???

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Darryl rookies playing a certain amount of snaps could also meant there was no other option...just sayin.

Deus Irae said:

The Patriots had a period of time where they were terrible at drafting, and it probably cost them a Super Bowl or two. It was fair for people to be on the team, and BB, about that. He's a good GM, but he's made his share of major blunders, and he's clearly struggled drafting certain positions in recent years.

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As has every other team in the NFL.. draft flops is not something unique to the NEP. In the absence of a longitudinal study of how every team has done, most of this is conjecture..

DarrylS said:

As has every other team in the NFL.. draft flops is not something unique to the NEP.

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You are 100% correct, and the Patriots certainly draft better in the aggregate than most people give them credit for.

DarrylS said:

In the absence of a longitudinal study of how every team has done, most of this is conjecture..

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No study will get you a truly accurate result, because there are too many 'x' factors to account for. We can look at the drafts and guess, and try taking into account things like draft position and need, and that's about the best that can be done.

Personally, I look at the BB drafting time in 3 basic eras, and don't really count 2000 at all, except to note it as the Brady draft:

2001-2005 (Excellent drafts that helped create the dynasty)
2006-2009 (mostly disaster level)
2010-2013 (return to excellence)

I think it's too soon to tell whether 2014 and 2015 are continuations of that third era or not.

Deus Irae said:

You are 100% correct, and the Patriots certainly draft better in the aggregate than most people give them credit for.

No study will get you a truly accurate result, because there are too many 'x' factors to account for. We can look at the drafts and guess, and try taking into account things like draft position and need, and that's about the best that can be done.

Personally, I look at the BB drafting time in 3 basic eras, and don't really count 2000 at all, except to note it as the Brady draft:

2001-2005 (Excellent drafts that helped create the dynasty)
2006-2009 (mostly disaster level)
2010-2013 (return to excellence)

I think it's too soon to tell whether 2014 and 2015 are continuations of that third era or not.

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Pioli left in 2009, wonder if then BB needed to things differently..

You can do a study with fixed variables.. i.e. starts, personal stats, value to team etc. relative to draft position. The fact remains every team has successes and failures.. cannot find it right now but one time compared the drafts of the Pats, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Green Bay and Pittsburg over an 8 year period.. unfortunately, cannot find it.. but remember that every team has its share of draft busts.. along with draft finds.

You are not going to get a completely accurate report as a lot of this is subjective, however you can get a generalized picture as to how well a team has done..

This thread makes me sicker about losing the one and four.

sarge said:

You beat me to it. You are absolutely correct. Wilfork was not a stud day 1. Took him a couple years to get there. But he was a good player, as brown appears to be. And he has just gotten better as the year has gone on just like Wilfork.

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As I recall, the big breakthrough for Vince was moving him back off the line a bit. He had been setting up too close and it hurt his lateral visibility and movement.

vyrago said:

Usually when people say this they are talking about WRs, no?

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For some, it might have "evolved" to that, but there have been plenty of posters taking a heated Belichick-cant-draft, is-a-below-average-gm position over the years.

I'm as much a Belichick homer as there is, but if I were him, I would figure out who is scouting the wr's for Pittsburgh and lure them away with a huge pay increase.

XLIX said:

But.... But.... Earlier this year some mediot called Malcom a bust?!?!?

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people on this board were calling him a bust so lets not get too excited about that