Game Thoughts: I am embarrased by this loss edition

Bruins29 said:

I think they knew it but took a chance. I think if JG started this board would have crashed. You know that lol. It was a bad day but not unprecedented.

Click to expand...

I don't think the board would've crashed. It would have obviously meant to most everyone on here, that they were content with the second seed and were more worried about keeping players healthy for the playoffs. And I think most people here would be okay with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DaBruinz said:

Rob - he was referring to all the Negative Nancies claiming that the team is done. Not saying that you should be embarrassed by your reaction..

Click to expand...

People who actually seriously use the term "negative nancies" should be embarassed.

Rob0729 said:

• This was a pathetic effort by everyone. No one is excused from this loss. The Pats were out coached, out played, and out classed today.
• I am not one to jump on McDaniels (in fact I defend him more than most), but I don't get his offensive strategy this entire month. Either they go with the three and out overly conservative offense or the three and out huck the ball down the field offense. What happened to spreading them out and go to the short quick passes. And before people say it isn't working, it is because they aren't trying it.
• I hate that Belichick is coaching scared down the stretch. He might as well were a cut off hoodie that reads "My offense sucks and I don't trust them". I know that the offense is struggling quite a bit, but he is shattering their confidence consistently showing that he doesn't trust them at all.
• That said, this offensive line is awful right now. There is a serious lack of communication, but the play is awful.
• I still don't get why they don't get White more involved in the offense. It seems they wait until the Pats are in a hole and need to dig themselves out of it before they even put the guy on the field. When he gets the ball in his hands, he makes plays.
• They need to move Gronk around more in motion. He is getting too much attention and could benefit from more motion. I know that he has had to stay in and block has been a big factor in that.'
• With the strategy they came into the game, they should have sat Brady and others. They were never going to win with the strategy of trying to win 2-0 because they had no intention of scoring points on offense going into the game. I have no problem with the loss, but I have a problem with how they lost.
• I am concerned about Brady's ankle. He was never right after that injury. If it is a lingering injury, it could cost the Pats their playoff chances.
• Hightower really needs to get better. I swear he is the true MVP of the defense. When he isn't in there, the defense is not nearly as good.
• All that said, a new season starts next week. The Pats can turn it all around with a bit of health in two weeks. Get an Edelman back at anywhere over 80% and a return of Vollmer and Amendola more healthy and this offense can flip a switch and be dominant again. Same on the defensive side with the return of Hightower and Jones.
• After how we see things shake out today, the #2 seed may not be so bad. I expect both Wild Card teams winning next week. That means that KC would come to New England and Pittsburgh traveling to Denver. That may mean the Pats will be hosting the AFC Championship game anyway.

Click to expand...

Don't mean to single you out. But this type of post after a loss is the exact reason i come hear less and go to Reddit more.

We all know exactly the reason for this loss. We had about 37-38 guys actually healthy. Our OL is down to it's 4th string LT, Our receivers are hurt, Safteys are playing hurt and we are playing without arguably our 2 Best defensive starters.

Yes it's a disappointing loss. Yes we were conservative today. But pretending that this was some blow out when it was 10-10 well into the 4th where their only TD came from a ball that was just as likely to be intercepted by Ryan is just re writing history.

I appreciate the input from many posters here. But this type of knee jerk, woe is me, armchair QB reaction just becomes tiresome.

2 weeks to rest up for a big game at home most likely against Cincy. Can't wait. Hopefully we will have all hands on deck by then.

Why the conservative game plan for the Patriots?
Reiss has an explanaton for the 11 runs to start the game. Miami was expecting pass and even Campbell thought pats will come out passing and played nickel defense.Pats countered with 2 TE and running the ball. they just werent too effective. If they had throw vs the nickel D with our WR core, results couldve been even worse.

James White came up big again.. odd that they rarely use him.

Depressed about the loss but not surprised. More pissed that the Donks pulled another one out of their ***es. I am not sure how this beat up team will do against the Chefs defense. Nightmare match up IMO. Donks have the Steelers and then a tired Chefs team or the Pats. Seahawks Donks rematch? UHH

SVN said:

But you didnt want him gone when they were at full strength did you?Only now when its injured and having issues you want him gone

Click to expand...

I've wanted him gone since early last year. And I voiced my opinion about him quite often then (to some people's chagrin). I shut up about it mostly this because I didn't want to start coming off like NEM. IMO, we won SB 49 largely in spite of him, not partially because of him.

Mark. said:

Aren't we the third most injured team in the NFL behind the Ravens (5-11) and the Giants (6-10). Us being 12-4 is a miracle.

Click to expand...

In terms of quantity, Giants might have like 1 more guy injured, but the Pats definitely have more quality/talent on IR. Factor in games missed from players who aren't IR'd (ex. Edelman) and they're right up there behind only Baltimore.

Rob0729 said:

• I still don't get why they don't get White more involved in the offense. It seems they wait until the Pats are in a hole and need to dig themselves out of it before they even put the guy on the field. When he gets the ball in his hands, he makes plays.

Click to expand...

You mean you don't like the play where they ran him right into four linemen?

jsull87 said:

Don't mean to single you out. But this type of post after a loss is the exact reason i come hear less and go to Reddit more.

We all know exactly the reason for this loss. We had about 37-38 guys actually healthy. Our OL is down to it's 4th string LT, Our receivers are hurt, Safteys are playing hurt and we are playing without arguably our 2 Best defensive starters.

Yes it's a disappointing loss. Yes we were conservative today. But pretending that this was some blow out when it was 10-10 well into the 4th where their only TD came from a ball that was just as likely to be intercepted by Ryan is just re writing history.

I appreciate the input from many posters here. But this type of knee jerk, woe is me, armchair QB reaction just becomes tiresome.

2 weeks to rest up for a big game at home most likely against Cincy. Can't wait. Hopefully we will have all hands on deck by then.

Click to expand...

No offense, but this board is a better place without you. You clearly did not read my post that you are claiming is the reason why you don't come here.

It isn't a knee jerk reaction at all. I never pretended the Pats were blown out. I never said this team is done. I looked at this game for what it was and not a referendum for the playoffs.

I am saying the Pats played stupid. It was an embarrassing loss because they played not to get injured at one point running the ball play after play (which is stupid to begin with because if you are doing that, pull players you don't want to get injured) and then throwing caution into the wind at the next asking Brady to stand in the pocket for 3-5 seconds while his receivers ran 30 yards down the field.

I said specifically that this game has no bearing on the playoffs. I am pointing out that the strategy is playing conservative to the point that playing Brady is useless and stupid on point and then playing reckless and needlessly putting Brady in harms way the next.

But also let's not forget that the Dolphins came into today 4-11, Tannehill went something like 100 straight passes without a TD pass before today, and the Dolphins have no pass rush. Even with a depleted roster, the Pats should have out classed the Dolphins. I put most of the blame on the coaching but the players were enemic too today.

SVN said:

Why the conservative game plan for the Patriots?
Reiss has an explanaton for the 11 runs to start the game. Miami was expecting pass and even Campbell thought pats will come out passing and played nickel defense.Pats countered with 2 TE and running the ball. they just werent too effective. If they had throw vs the nickel D with our WR core, results couldve been even worse.

Click to expand...

So, they basically had 7 OL and some of the better blocking WRs in the league against a nickle defense and still couldn't run worth ****?

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's even more concerning than I'd thought. That's just sad.

mosslost said:

People who actually seriously use the term "negative nancies" should be embarassed.

Click to expand...

Why? Because it accurately describes a group of so-called fans who have decided to ignore reality and think the worst of this team despite everything they've over-come? Sorry, that's not a reason to be embarrassed.

supafly said:

So, they basically had 7 OL and some of the better blocking WRs in the league against a nickle defense and still couldn't run worth ****?

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's even more concerning than I'd thought. That's just sad.

Click to expand...

When the opposing team KNOWS you are going to runt he ball, it doesn't matter if they have their nickle defense on the field or not. They can still run and react to it effectively.. And to be fair, Fleming is not a LT. He's never played the position previously to the few snaps he took a few games ago.. And even with some practice, you can't expect him to be even to a below average level in a few weeks.

jsull87 said:

Don't mean to single you out. But this type of post after a loss is the exact reason i come hear less and go to Reddit more.

Click to expand...

Seriously?!

The Patriots reddit is an embarrassment to the team and reflects poor on the fanbase. The average age there has to be in the teens.

And there's nothing wrong with this thread (yet alone the forum) at all. Lots of valid points.

I go on reddit right and all I see is corny memes and re-posts of tweets & articles.

DaBruinz said:

When the opposing team KNOWS you are going to runt he ball, it doesn't matter if they have their nickle defense on the field or not.

Click to expand...

Not meaning for this to come off sarcastically, but if they definitely knew that we were going to run the ball, they probably wouldn't be lining up in a nickle defense. Either way, I'm just going by the report which stated that Dan Campbell and the Dolphins were expecting the Pats to come out throwing, which is why they were in the nickle package to begin with.

Looking at it that way, it can be seen as justification for some concern, particularly when we're lining up with dual TEs to help the blocking game.

DaBruinz said:

They can still run and react to it effectively.. And to be fair, Fleming is not a LT. He's never played the position previously to the few snaps he took a few games ago.. And even with some practice, you can't expect him to be even to a below average level in a few weeks.

Click to expand...

Very fair point. I'm guessing that things improve a bit with the return of Vollmer, although there's still some concern from me since they haven't managed to run too effectively all year long. Hopefully that changes soon.

Unfortunately, tackle may end up being more of a "need" (I use that term loosely when predicting any draft decisions) than most of us initially expected. I have some worries about the long term prospects of both Solder/Vollmer, and Cannon/Fleming have some obvious question marks as well. It may be time to try and find a new tackle in the middle rounds.

It was pretty embarrassing when Miami were so confident about our OL's inability to do anything that they lined up in pretty much goalline D inside our 20, blitzed with everyone and sacked Brady.

Also LaFell has been terrible this year since coming back. Just going through the motions, no fight, no hunger, no desire. Doesn't even bother competing if its tight coverage.

Hate being negative about this team, but we really have been horrible this past month. Soft, conservative and negative. Unless something dramatic changes with the OL and the playcalling it doesn't matter if Edelman is back 100%, we'll be one and done.

Rob0729 said:

No one is arguing against this. I and others are arguing that if this is the strategy you are going to adopt, you don't play Brady and other guys you need for the playoffs. If you aren't playing to win and playing more to protect players, don't play the players you are trying to protect.

Click to expand...

Except you are not. Your entire first post was arguing that McD's playcallling for a month was poor (horsecrap as I have pointed out in my fist reply), that BB is playing scared (even more horsecrap unless you mean scared to have even more injured players in meaningless games), that we should spread it out more and motion Gronk around (******** as we staying away from both on purpose) and more whiney crap like that when the reality is that in the last two weeks we played extremely conservative by design and not because of lack of creativity on any side.

What it boils down to and I have said it multiple times in this thread is that except for Brady there was no one we could have really sat anymore because we were playing with only 38-39 healthy players instead of 53.

Chandler has been on the verge of inactivity for 4 weeks because of a knee injury, so no one to take over for Gronk. Amendola didnt even play 50% of snaps and was even then barely targeted. DMac had to play despite being obviously still bothered by the ankle sprain because Richards is also not fully healthy after last week's hit in overtime.

Could Brady have sat? Yes, sure. But as I have argued again and again you don't know ahead what your opponent will give you. The Dolphins could have given us multiple turnovers or blown coverages. And thats when you would want Brady there to take advantage even with a limited team.

I would have been glad to see Jimmy play but get what BB & co. were thinking.

There is enough to critizise in terms of the micro game but it is laughable to think that "BB was outcoached" (more horsecrap from your first post).

Rob0729 said:

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. When did I say it was a sign of desperation? I am just pointing out the Pats didn't play vanilla when they are doing flea-flickas, double reverses, etc.

Click to expand...

I am not putting any words into your mouth. I am saying it was desperation in the sense that the coaching staff knew very well that it would be hard to move the ball offensively with what they had planned and tried to kickstart the Jets game.

When I saw three trick plays within 2-3 minutes I knew exactly what kind of game we were getting against the Jets.

Rob0729 said:

You trust Brady to get rid of the ball. He is the best QB in the league.

It was 43 yards. Belichick usually goes for it in these situations. He didn't. But you are arguing what I am arguing. He wasn't playing to win, he was playing not to get hurt and that is stupid because you cannot play not to get hurt. Brady got hurt while they were playing not to get Brady hurt. This is football.

Click to expand...

You are contradicting yourself in your own answer. On the one hand you say you trust Brady to get rid of the football but then blame the coaching staff for putting him in harms way in a play where he could have easily thrown the ball away but instead tried to make something happen. Suh didn't come towards him from his blind sight, he should have been well aware of it and could have just thrown the ball away.

Of course you can't fully remove the risk of injuries because it is a collision sport that has dozens of serious non contact injuries every season. But you can try to minimize them while still putting yourself in a position to win the game if the other team ****s the bed and that's what they did. The chance of Gronk getting hurt on blocking assignments is considerably smaller than when he is running seam routes. Is the risk zero ? No, but then again it is also not zero during practice or TC as we see every year.

archstanton543 said:

Everybody. If you're going to rest guys, rest them. There's a backup at every position.

Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about ? We had 38-39 healthy players and couldn't even fill the normal amount of gameday actives.