Why should Belichick get a pass?

livinginthe past · Dec 28, 2015

All these crying. whining, chicken little threads would hold a little more gravitas if the authors would actually take the time to start some positive threads once in awhile instead of just showing up to post negative criticism of the best franchise in all of sports.

I can't say I agreed with quite a lot of what the coaches did yesterday - but I have the intellect to realize that cherry picking pieces of the game-plan/decision making that didn't sit right with me is ridiculous if I don't acknowledge all the many, many good things this team and coaching staff do.

Understand that success is relative and not absolute and you'll be a lot happier instead of living your life through a sports team.

DarrylS · Dec 28, 2015

When we win it is team effort, when we lose we need a goat.. in this case the refrain is BB made a "mistake".

When you take a look at the NFL Gamebook there is every reason to believe that BB could rely on their defense.. and then put the ball in Brady's hands.. The Jets had the ball four times in the fourth quarter and had 3 three and outs, on the fourth possession they held the Jets to 26 yards on 7 snaps... if I were BB I would have confidence in my defense..

Play By Play Fourth Quarter 12/27/2015
New York Jets continued.
1-10-NE 26 (15:00) (Shotgun) S.Ridley left end to NE 28 for -2 yards (M.Butler).
2-12-NE 28 (14:17) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete deep middle to K.Thompkins.
3-12-NE 28 (14:13) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short middle to K.Thompkins to NE 31 for -3 yards (J.Coleman).
4-15-NE 31 (13:33) R.Bullock 49 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-T.Purdum, Holder-R.Quigley.

New York Jets at 11:54
1-10-NYJ 31 (11:54) (Shotgun) C.Ivory left guard to NYJ 34 for 3 yards (M.Brown).
2-7-NYJ 34 (11:18) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete short right to B.Marshall.
3-7-NYJ 34 (11:13) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short middle to B.Powell to NYJ 36 for 2 yards (J.Collins).
4-5-NYJ 36 (10:38) R.Quigley punts 48 yards to NE 16, Center-T.Purdum. K.Martin pushed ob at NE 31 for 15 yards (E.Henderson).

New York Jets at 7:35
1-10-NYJ 6 (7:35) C.Ivory left tackle to NYJ 8 for 2 yards (M.Brown; J.Collins).
2-8-NYJ 8 (6:56) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete deep right to K.Thompkins [M.Brown].
(6:51) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to B.Powell to NYJ 13 for 5 yards (J.Collins). FUMBLES (J.Collins), ball out of bounds at NYJ 21.
NYJ-K.Thompkins was injured during the play.
3-8-NYJ 8
4-3-NYJ 13 (6:37) R.Quigley punts 57 yards to NE 30, Center-T.Purdum. K.Martin to NE 34 for 4 yards (Q.Enunwa; D.Davis).

New York Jets at 1:55
1-10-NYJ 20 (1:55) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick scrambles left end to NYJ 26 for 6 yards (D.Hightower).
2-4-NYJ 26 (1:31) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete short left (R.Ninkovich).
3-4-NYJ 26 (1:25) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete short left to E.Decker (M.Butler).
PENALTY on NE-M.Butler, Defensive Pass Interference, 7 yards, enforced at NYJ 26 - No Play. X20
1-10-NYJ 33 (1:21) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short middle to E.Decker to NYJ 49 for 16 yards (J.Collins). P21
Timeout #1 by NYJ at 01:06.
1-10-NYJ 49 (1:06) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete deep right to B.Powell.
2-10-NYJ 49 (1:00) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to B.Powell to NE 49 for 2 yards (D.Hightower) [A.Hicks].
Timeout #2 by NE at 00:37.
3-8-NE 49 37) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete deep left to Q.Enunwa.
4-8-NE 49 34) (Punt formation) PENALTY on NYJ-R.Quigley, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at NE 49 - No Play.
Timeout #3 by NE at 00:33.
4-13-NYJ 46 33) R.Quigley punts 54 yards to end zone, Center-T.Purdum, Touchback.

Triumph · Dec 28, 2015

Think about this?

Offensively, NE converted only 1 3rd down out of 10 vs the Jets. 10%

Gronk had only 4 receptions and 2 came in the last 4 minutes of the game. For 56 minutes Gronk was held to 2 receptions. He had no TDs.

The unlikely trio of Martin, Bolden and White were the leading receivers. White finally scored on a pass play with minutes remaining in regulation. LaFell caught only 1 pass and no TDs.

NE rushing wasn't pretty. RBs Bolden averaged 3.3 and Jackson averaged 2.1 ypc.

Fencer · Dec 28, 2015

BB choosing to rely on the defense rather than the offense in OT? Makes perfect sense to me.

Fencer · Dec 28, 2015

stcjones said:
A lot of the backup OL players are marginal at best....and this has ALWAYS been a weakness for Belichick.

That's one of the dumber comments I've seen on this board for a while.

The Patriots don't win their first Super Bowl without Grant Williams playing effectively as backup tackle. The Patriots don't win their third Super Bowl without Russ Hochstein playing effectively at center.
The Patriots don't win their fourth Super Bowl without some OL shake-out either.

Fencer · Dec 28, 2015

Boomer B said:
The only reason to ever kick off in OT is severe weather conditions.

That was true for many decades.

But there's been a rule change ...

Fencer · Dec 28, 2015

The_Riddler said:
So you're saying that you weren't surprised and that you were happy that BB decided to kickoff? I'm curious to see how often in NFL history that given somewhat normal weather conditions that any team decided to make this decision to start an OT. I am very curious. I would be shocked if it's over 4%. Esp a team that rostered a legendary, HOF QB.

NFL history is hardly the right period of time. The only proper comparison is the period since the rule change.

condon84 · Dec 28, 2015

Our OL was getting killed all game and so was Brady.

Our D kept us in the game and was definitely playing a lot better than our O.

Kickoff, force a punt and move the ball only so many yards to kick a game winning FB.

BB assumed that our D were more likely going to force a punt than our O driving the length of the field for a game winning TD.

Sound logic considering the context of the game.

He didn't figure our safeties were going to run into each other and give up a long pass.

PF_SU · Dec 28, 2015

Fencer said:
NFL history is hardly the right period of time. The only proper comparison is the period since the rule change.

As I have shown earlier, the record for teams that received the opening kick-off in OT is 34-66 (34-70 if you count games that were tied after OT). So basically a 50% chance to win.

So, with the chance to win for a team that receives being a toss-up you still want to receive under normal circumstances. From a psychological point of view - since there is no detriment - you want to be in the driver's seat and have the opportunity to put the game away with a TD. However, with the receiving team not having a real advantage it does not put the decision to receive the football above tactical considerations in regards to how your offense/defense performed in the game up to that point.

RobertWeathers · Dec 28, 2015

PF_SU said:
As I have shown earlier, the record for teams that received the opening kick-off in OT is 34-66 (34-70 if you count games that were tied after OT). So basically a 50% chance to win.

So, with the chance to win for a team that receives being a toss-up you still want to receive under normal circumstances. From a psychological point of view - since there is no detriment - you want to be in the driver's seat and have the opportunity to put the game away with a TD. However, with the receiving team not having a real advantage it does not put the decision to receive the football above tactical considerations in regards to how your offense/defense performed in the game up to that point.

....and considering the offense was poop and the D on a roll BBs decision was not a bad one.

Fencer · Dec 28, 2015

PF_SU said:
As I have shown earlier, the record for teams that received the opening kick-off in OT is 34-66 (34-70 if you count games that were tied after OT). So basically a 50% chance to win.

So, with the chance to win for a team that receives being a toss-up you still want to receive under normal circumstances. From a psychological point of view - since there is no detriment - you want to be in the driver's seat and have the opportunity to put the game away with a TD. However, with the receiving team not having a real advantage it does not put the decision to receive the football above tactical considerations in regards to how your offense/defense performed in the game up to that point.

PF_SU said:
Also something to consider before saying it's a no-brainer to receive the ball in OT, here's the record of the receiving team in OT in the regular season and playoffs since the OT rules in the regular season were changed in 2012:

TD score on first drive: 12-66 (18.2%)
Score on first drive: 23-66 (34.8%)
Win: 34-66 (51.5%)

In addition to that we have three ties and another game (the Denver-Baltimore one in 2012 that went into double OT). If you count those four for the sake of winning in OT the record for the receiving team worsens to:

TD score on first drive: 12-70 (17.1%)
Score on first drive: 25-70 (35.7%)
Win: 34-70 (48.6%)

You can certainly make the argument that even in normal conditions the advantages offered by receiving the ball is so big that you have to take the ball, ignoring possible tactical considerations in respect to your offensive/defensive performance in the four quarters before.

34 wins, 32 losses. Pretty much 50-50.

So if you have a strong feeling either way about special circumstances, go for it.

In this case, we can presume the special circumstances were that BB trusted his defense over his offense in general. Perhaps he also had feelings about scoring TDs in particular.

Spiral · Dec 28, 2015

There have been some good posts arguing either way on BB's decision.

My problem is that BB evidently didn't know the rules regarding who gets to choose the end of the field they will defend in OT. He should have told Slater to pick the side of the field they wanted to defend if they won the toss. At that point, the Jets would most likely have elected to receive. It appears BB thought the rules were the same as for the start of the game. I don't criticize him for his decision on receiving/kicking off, but I do fault him for this.

Deus Irae · Dec 28, 2015

Spiral said:
There have been some good posts arguing either way on BB's decision.

My problem is that BB evidently didn't know the rules regarding who gets to choose the end of the field they will defend in OT. He should have told Slater to pick the side of the field they wanted to defend if they won the toss. At that point, the Jets would most likely have elected to receive. It appears BB thought the rules were the same as for the start of the game. I don't criticize him for his decision on receiving/kicking off, but I do fault him for this.

That was Slater's screw up, not Belichick's.

Deus Irae · Dec 28, 2015

Here's Brady:

“No, I’m not offended at all,” Brady said on “Dennis & Callahan” on WEEI. “We had a situation in Denver this year where we got the ball and we didn’t do anything with it. We kicked it to them on a short field. Like I said, we haven’t exactly inspired our coach to throw our offense out there to say, ‘Go score a touchdown and win the game.’ So I don’t blame him. If we were playing a lot better offensively I’m sure his decision would have been different. But if we’re not doing much as an offense, that’s just the way it goes. We had plenty of other opportunities for us to go out there and do something, get the ball, score points, get it in the end zone. You’re right, we did put it together there the last drive of [regulation]. But that was our only real scoring drive of the day.”

Brady on coin flip: If offense was playing better, decision would be different

SVN · Dec 28, 2015

Spiral said:
There have been some good posts arguing either way on BB's decision.

My problem is that BB evidently didn't know the rules regarding who gets to choose the end of the field they will defend in OT. He should have told Slater to pick the side of the field they wanted to defend if they won the toss. At that point, the Jets would most likely have elected to receive. It appears BB thought the rules were the same as for the start of the game. I don't criticize him for his decision on receiving/kicking off, but I do fault him for this.

He knows the rules. Thats how he picked the side to kick during the denver game with the wind. Slater didnt translate that on the field.

SVN · Dec 28, 2015

Tom Brady on D&C: ‘I’m not offended at all’ by decision to kick off in overtime

The Patriots’ lone offensive touchdown came with 1:55 remaining in overtime, and it capped an 11-play, 66-yard drive. But Brady noted that the Pats were able to take advantage of being in a four-down situation, which would not have been the case had they started with the ball in overtime.

‘Well, it was better [production on that drive], but again, there were two fourth-down conversions that we had to make that, I don’t know if you’re in overtime I don’t know if you’re going for it on fourth down in that situation unless you’re desperate, which if we hold them to a field goal then you do have to go for it on fourth down,” he said. “We didn’t do very well on third down all day. We didn’t have great efficiency in the run game. It was a struggle to move the ball at times.

“Look, like I said, hindsight’s always 20/20 on this one. When coach decided that’s what he wants to do, then you go with it. You hope the defense goes out there and gets one stop, which they had gotten three stops there in the fourth quarter and was playing a lot better in the second half. I think the Jets made some good plays. I think that’s what it came down to.”

Spiral · Dec 28, 2015

Spiral said:
There have been some good posts arguing either way on BB's decision.

My problem is that BB evidently didn't know the rules regarding who gets to choose the end of the field they will defend in OT. He should have told Slater to pick the side of the field they wanted to defend if they won the toss. At that point, the Jets would most likely have elected to receive. It appears BB thought the rules were the same as for the start of the game. I don't criticize him for his decision on receiving/kicking off, but I do fault him for this.

SVN said:
He knows the rules. Thats how he picked the side to kick during the denver game with the wind. Slater didnt translate that on the field.

If that's the case, then I still fault BB for failing to communicate that to Slater. That's on Bill, IMO.

Deus Irae · Dec 28, 2015

Spiral said:
If that's the case, then I still fault BB for failing to communicate that to Slater. That's on Bill, IMO.

It was a terminology issue, nothing more. Slater screwed up, but it was a meaningless error that was about which end to defend on a day without a wind issue.

Ivan · Dec 28, 2015

So many in this fan base don't deserve this team what a Bunch of *****es

AzPatsFan · Dec 28, 2015

Why should Belichick get a pass...? How about 6 Super bowl appearances and 4 wins in 15 seasons... that's WHY.

Why should Belichick get a pass?

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