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A closer look at RB and what we need.


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patfanken

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All the discussions about the various RB possibilities, plus the talk about which RB will take over for Blount led me to think about what exactly BB thinks he needs to have happen at the position to make a championship happen, despite the losses of both Blount and Lewis. In the end I believe Easley is going to be harder to replace, but this thread is about what we need at RB.

History should tell us all we need to know about what BB is looking for in a RB. If we go back to the early days of the Pats run. A time where the running game was much more important than it is now. Yet even then BB was asking very little of the RB position.

1. Don't lose yards - Trying to make the big play and losing yards is what I call the Barry Sanders syndrome. Second and 9 can be overcome, but 2nd and 13 is much tougher statistically.

2. Get the hard yard or two on 3rd and short and GL situations about 85-90% of thee time.

3. Hold on to the ball - it's important a fact that we have to mention it, and BB's emphasis on ball security is well enough known by all that no more needs to be said

4. Do well in blitz pick up and pass blocking

5. Be dependable - in other words average about 3.5+ ypc, and get the hard yards - about 75-90 ypg.

We only have to go back to 2 time superbowl winner Anwain Smith who did all of the above right to a T. IIRC he never averaged 4 ypc as a Patriot, but was consistent, got the hard yards and gave the Pats enough of a run presence to make the rest of the offense go. And remember this was back in the day when Brady passing for over TWO hundred yards in a game was a good day.

So no matter who ends up being our main pounder of the football, all he has to do is to is be reliable and do these small thinigs and we can win it again. This is NOT a high bar, and someone like Jackson would seem perfect. He has the size, speed, quickness and explosion to do everything on the list, even at this late date in his career. Plus he obviously wouldn't be the one to carry the offense....or even something close to that. Just 15-20 carries for 5 games at the most. The motivation most certainly should be there for a guy who has never had a sniff of the playoffs, let alone a superbowl.

I remember the clip of BB giving Corey Dillon a game ball after the first playoff game he ever played in. IIRC, Dillon smiled as he accepted the ball, or it was as close to a smile as anyone ever saw Dillon make. ;) I'd like to see BB hand a similar ball out to Stephan Jackson this season.

Bottom Line: It is not what the Pats want in a RB, it is what they NEED. The blueprint is Atwain Smith, not Adrian Peterson. Keep that in mind while the saga continues.
 
"1. Don't lose yards - Trying to make the big play and losing yards is what I call the Barry Sanders syndrome. Second and 9 can be overcome, but 2nd and 13 is much tougher statistically.

2. Get the hard yard or two on 3rd and short and GL situations about 85-90% of thee time.

3. Hold on to the ball - it's important a fact that we have to mention it, and BB's emphasis on ball security is well enough known by all that no more needs to be said

4. Do well in blitz pick up and pass blocking

5. Be dependable - in other words average about 3.5+ ypc, and get the hard yards - about 75-90 ypg."

I am in favor of signing Jackson, but doesn't Bolden come close to meeting that criteria?

He had some big boy runs a couple of years ago to seal a win against Buffalo.
 
I am in favor of signing Jackson, but doesn't Bolden come close to meeting that criteria?
He does, but wouldn't a backup be prudent? Sign Jackson. Give Bolden all the snaps he can make good use of. Spell him with Jackson now and then so Jackson stays engaged and is ready "in case".
 
What's Ray Rice doing these days?
 
All the discussions about the various RB possibilities, plus the talk about which RB will take over for Blount led me to think about what exactly BB thinks he needs to have happen at the position to make a championship happen, despite the losses of both Blount and Lewis. In the end I believe Easley is going to be harder to replace, but this thread is about what we need at RB.

History should tell us all we need to know about what BB is looking for in a RB. If we go back to the early days of the Pats run. A time where the running game was much more important than it is now. Yet even then BB was asking very little of the RB position.

1. Don't lose yards - Trying to make the big play and losing yards is what I call the Barry Sanders syndrome. Second and 9 can be overcome, but 2nd and 13 is much tougher statistically.

2. Get the hard yard or two on 3rd and short and GL situations about 85-90% of thee time.

3. Hold on to the ball - it's important a fact that we have to mention it, and BB's emphasis on ball security is well enough known by all that no more needs to be said

4. Do well in blitz pick up and pass blocking

5. Be dependable - in other words average about 3.5+ ypc, and get the hard yards - about 75-90 ypg.

We only have to go back to 2 time superbowl winner Anwain Smith who did all of the above right to a T. IIRC he never averaged 4 ypc as a Patriot, but was consistent, got the hard yards and gave the Pats enough of a run presence to make the rest of the offense go. And remember this was back in the day when Brady passing for over TWO hundred yards in a game was a good day.

So no matter who ends up being our main pounder of the football, all he has to do is to is be reliable and do these small thinigs and we can win it again. This is NOT a high bar, and someone like Jackson would seem perfect. He has the size, speed, quickness and explosion to do everything on the list, even at this late date in his career. Plus he obviously wouldn't be the one to carry the offense....or even something close to that. Just 15-20 carries for 5 games at the most. The motivation most certainly should be there for a guy who has never had a sniff of the playoffs, let alone a superbowl.

I remember the clip of BB giving Corey Dillon a game ball after the first playoff game he ever played in. IIRC, Dillon smiled as he accepted the ball, or it was as close to a smile as anyone ever saw Dillon make. ;) I'd like to see BB hand a similar ball out to Stephan Jackson this season.

Bottom Line: It is not what the Pats want in a RB, it is what they NEED. The blueprint is Atwain Smith, not Adrian Peterson. Keep that in mind while the saga continues.

We definitely need to get the running game going, so however that's done is fine with me. I agree with you that we don't need a top tier RB (thankfully...since none are available), but I'm not as sure about comparing the days of Antwain Smith and a 200 yard passing performance by Brady, considering that we had the best defense in the entire league, and it wasn't even close. In 2003 our secondary gave up 11 touchdowns on the season...and hauled in TWENTY-NINE interceptions.

2003 New England Patriots Statistics & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Look at the 9 game postseason stretch from 2001-2004 which produced 3 SB's. In 7.5 of those 9 games the average score was like 18-14 Patriots, or something damn close to that (I haven't done the math in a couple of years). If you take out the clear outlier which was the 2004 AFCCG vs. Pittsburgh and consider that the second half of the Carolina SB saw high scoring from both teams, you'll get 7.5/9 games which were very closely contested and saw low scoring from both offense/defense. It would be great to win those kinds of games again.

Anyway, getting back on track, yes--we need to have some type of running game, and there's no reason why a guy like Jackson can't give that to us, or taking it a step further, a trio of Jackson, Bolden, and White, as long as they are used effectively and provide balance.
 
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I think there was a ton of grumbling about the running game that really wasn't that justified. The best argument one might make would be that Josh and BB didn't trust it as much. But in terms of results, it was more or less what it usually is.

Part of the problem is that our offense is shifting more towards passing. Maybe that's a lack of confidence in the run game, or due to the jumbled parts on the OL. Maybe missing Develin has changed the nature of the run game. Maybe it's just the way teams are lining up against us or the way the team wants to attack by putting the ball in Brady's hands more. I don't know.

But in terms of effectiveness, it's pretty similar. Last year, we were 7th in pass attempts and 13th in rush attempts. This year, we're 2nd in pass attempts and 26th in rush attempts. We've run fewer plays per game (65 per game last year, 60ish this year), and the passing attempts have increased slightly from 38 to 38.5, while the run attempts are down 27 to 22.

But in terms of average, about the same, 3.9 vs. 3.8 YPC. And those 22 attempts are not down because of injuries either. We averaged 22 attempts with Lewis and Blount healthy. Last year, we were 18th in rushing yards per game, this year 27th. If you add in those 5 fewer runs per game though, we're back up to 15th. So it's not the quality of the rushes, but the quantity.

Blount got a lot of crap but he averaged 4.4 YPC last season and 4.3 this season. It's a bit more noticeable as a Patriot because he averaged 4.7 last season with the Patriots, but he also ran significantly fewer times and his big runs built up that average.

I've heard that Blount isn't getting yards consistently, but Football Outsiders tracks running back "success" rate, which is really just a measure of whether they are consistently getting enough yards to keep the offense on track. Blount was at 46% last year, 50% this year, which places him 5th among qualifying running backs. So if anything, he's actually been better about getting consistent yards this season, one of the best in the league actually.

If anything has been missing, it's been the long runs. Blount had 4 20+ runs in 60 attempts last season, and only 4 in 165 carries this season. So he's been less explosive, but a bit more consistent.
 
All the discussions about the various RB possibilities, plus the talk about which RB will take over for Blount led me to think about what exactly BB thinks he needs to have happen at the position to make a championship happen, despite the losses of both Blount and Lewis. In the end I believe Easley is going to be harder to replace, but this thread is about what we need at RB.

History should tell us all we need to know about what BB is looking for in a RB. If we go back to the early days of the Pats run. A time where the running game was much more important than it is now. Yet even then BB was asking very little of the RB position.

1. Don't lose yards - Trying to make the big play and losing yards is what I call the Barry Sanders syndrome. Second and 9 can be overcome, but 2nd and 13 is much tougher statistically.

2. Get the hard yard or two on 3rd and short and GL situations about 85-90% of thee time.

3. Hold on to the ball - it's important a fact that we have to mention it, and BB's emphasis on ball security is well enough known by all that no more needs to be said

4. Do well in blitz pick up and pass blocking

5. Be dependable - in other words average about 3.5+ ypc, and get the hard yards - about 75-90 ypg.

We only have to go back to 2 time superbowl winner Anwain Smith who did all of the above right to a T. IIRC he never averaged 4 ypc as a Patriot, but was consistent, got the hard yards and gave the Pats enough of a run presence to make the rest of the offense go. And remember this was back in the day when Brady passing for over TWO hundred yards in a game was a good day.

So no matter who ends up being our main pounder of the football, all he has to do is to is be reliable and do these small thinigs and we can win it again. This is NOT a high bar, and someone like Jackson would seem perfect. He has the size, speed, quickness and explosion to do everything on the list, even at this late date in his career. Plus he obviously wouldn't be the one to carry the offense....or even something close to that. Just 15-20 carries for 5 games at the most. The motivation most certainly should be there for a guy who has never had a sniff of the playoffs, let alone a superbowl.

I remember the clip of BB giving Corey Dillon a game ball after the first playoff game he ever played in. IIRC, Dillon smiled as he accepted the ball, or it was as close to a smile as anyone ever saw Dillon make. ;) I'd like to see BB hand a similar ball out to Stephan Jackson this season.

Bottom Line: It is not what the Pats want in a RB, it is what they NEED. The blueprint is Atwain Smith, not Adrian Peterson. Keep that in mind while the saga continues.[/QUOTE
Ken. you assume that Jackson still has explosion, quickness n speed. We just don't know that. After working out yesterday, I'm assuming that both BB N mcDaniels have a better read.
 
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