Apparently the Pats have had the most big plays called back by penalty

Wheelman · Dec 10, 2015

KontradictioN said:
So why do you watch if you're convinced that it's fixed from the top on down? What's the point?

That's like asking why do you keep doing heroin? I mentioned this before, NFL is a drug and the corrupt 32 are the drug cartels and the fuhrer is the dealer.

RhodyPatriot · Dec 10, 2015

Just confirms what most of us thought was going on.
I worry about this in the playoffs, in a close game.
Nightmare scenario for Goodell and his henchmen is the Patriots winning the Super Bowl.
They do NOT want that to happen.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! · Dec 10, 2015

BelichickFan said:
Most likely we get the big plays because of the infraction not the other way around. Not seeing when the flag is thrown, though, it's tough to say.

Do infractions that aren't really infractions count? I'd be shocked if the Denver game doesn't account for 100+ of the yards and most were BS.

Tony2046 · Dec 10, 2015

patfanken said:
I'm glad you started this thread because I forgot to put this in to my Idle thoughts edition this week.

I hate to point this out because it will only increase the paranoia that abounds here (unfortunately it would seem rightfully so.), but this stat is particularly aggravating. . I saw this written in some report after the Denver game. It turns out that after the Bronco game, the Pats led the league in yardage lost because of penalites with over 300 yards lost. What makes this more painful is that the team in 2nd place has less than HALF that number (146 IIRC)

This is one of those stats that doesn't show up on the game's box score. So in a game like Denver, when you looked at the box score, the 2 teams seemed relatively equal in, because the yardage gained and lost due to the penalty is never recorded.

I saw a chart in which Denver was the most penalized team in terms of Net yards (Penalized for/Penalized against).

NFL Penalties - 2015 League Penalty Stats - View by Total - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015

Buffalo has the most the most penalized yards.

Not sure if we are talking about the same thing though and I am not sure if the linked source is accurate.

Nevertheless JCM's Big Play loss is telling.

Side Note: I have been closely watching out routes in which the receiver/TE makes contact with the DB and cuts out towards the sideline to compare what Gronk did during the Broncos game to what the receivers/TE's do. It is ridiculous the amount of fully extended arm contact I see. Most cases the Line Judge is right there.

Anyways the Pats better plan to be at least 7 points better than their opponent.

Brady'sButtBoy · Dec 10, 2015

Do I believe the fix is in on orders from the NFL offices? Yes.

However, this one stat - most big plays called back by penalties - could be misleading. Perhaps the Pats have so many big plays that they become the most likely to have the most called back even if the rate of those being called back doesn't exceed the average. A more telling stat would be percentage of big plays called back by penalty.

But, that the Pats have had the most total number of big plays called back hardly dispels my belief they are being worked against by the refs under orders from on high. Don't forget that some of the most heinous and unscrupulous scams and plots have succeeded because of the very reason they seemed so remotely possible the average person simply wouldn't believe they were occurring. This phenomena has been exploited over and over by the most awful of people.

Koma · Dec 10, 2015

Tony2046 said:
Side Note: I have been closely watching out routes in which the receiver/TE makes contact with the DB and cuts out towards the sideline to compare what Gronk did during the Broncos game to what the receivers/TE's do. It is ridiculous the amount of fully extended arm contact I see. Most cases the Line Judge is right there.

Anyways the Pats better plan to be at least 7 points better than their opponent.

That's an annoying by-product of that penalty: All the people claiming it was a good call either ignore or aren't aware that officials let receivers play that way all the time. The people who call it an easy or obvious call either have an agenda or don't watch football.

As far as the Patriots having big plays wiped out via penalty, maybe it's just a coincidence. Considering the league's questionable (and that's being generous) behavior towards the team, it's at least worth pointing out. If the Patriots gained the most yards via penalty or had the fewest big plays erased due to penalties, I guarantee someone in the media would bring it up.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Dec 11, 2015

KontradictioN said:
So why do you watch if you're convinced that it's fixed from the top on down? What's the point?

I keep asking myself that exact same question.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Dec 11, 2015

RhodyPatriot said:
Just confirms what most of us thought was going on.
I worry about this in the playoffs, in a close game.
Nightmare scenario for Goodell and his henchmen is the Patriots winning the Super Bowl.
They do NOT want that to happen.

We do have one Ace in the hole, Patriots=ratings. Ratings=money.

I'm certain that Goodell doesn't want to hand us the Lombardi but I suspect that the league wouldn't mind seeing us make it to the big game.

Canuck · Dec 11, 2015

I'm just guessing but I think NFL HQ probably has a whole dedicated file cabinet for complaints from other teams about the Patriots. They probably have a whole drawer just for Gronk himself. It looks like Goodell and his cronies are trying to neutralize the offensive weapons of the Patriots. First they try to take out Brady for 4 games and that failed. Now they target Gronk. Allow players to interfere with him all over the field but call him for OPI on the slighest possible infraction. I saw a comment awhile go that officials could call holding on every play if they wanted too. They just call the most obvious ones. Maybe just maybe on those big plays they call the less obvious ones against the Patriots. To be honest there are other teams that get hosed with what looks like biased bad calls.

I am sure that with how games are graded that the NFL HQ can influence how games are called. All they have to do is call the officials for a Patriots game and say we want a point of emphasis on TE OPI. If they don't call TE OPI during the game when there is the slightest possible chance to call it, they get a minus grade. A few minus grades and they get it, call OPI on Gronk or suffer a minus grade.

TheBostonStraggler · Dec 11, 2015

We may have the most big plays called back but at least they were all good penalty calls.

"We watched/reviewed the Gronk OPIs. Some of them were good and some were very close, maybe a badd call once"........blah blah blah. I've been saying it for over a month this is much more about selective refereeing. The wonderful thing about selective refereeing is the dimwit media and more than a few fans won't even consider that aspect of it. Selective refereeing is perfect game control/outcome material -- much cleaner than phantom calls. Example: Most TEs do X, refs flag X very rarely throughout a game/any game, Gronk does X again later in a game, ref now flags X, dimwit media (and many fans) review Gronk's X to see if there was even a hint of penalty. Since all X is borderline an infraction of a rule, regardless if it is rarely called, they get to claim "yea Gronk did push off, probably good call". Neat, clean, effective. The league gets to say "see Gronk puts up both arms and extends his arms 3 inches. That hits the threshold for a penalty. Good call". No one asks, no one has to answer "Hey media/league, let me show you 500 plays of X that are not called. Why is it repeatedly called on Gronk late in a games when TE Z I can show you 200 plays where he does X and is not called. Did the ref miss every one of those 200?? And the 200 of 25 other TEs?".
They have been using OL holding too. The threshold of offensive holding is being hit soooo often it is virtually common. Yet ref throws flag for holding at important point. Same deal of "well you can see the Guard's hand does kinda hook the right arm of the defender. Good call!". Another one is DPI.

I believe the NFL would not direct specific action against the Patriots. Even for these egotistical inflated D bags, even they don't feel entitlement to that kind of degree to get them in deep even legal water. But selective refereeing through points of emphasis, subtle notations, or general cultural attitude is happening. Gronk's massive statistical outlier compared to how obvious he is not doing anything outlier like compared to other TEs makes it clear the refs were somehow conditioned to single out Gronk.
Now, fyi, selective refereeing is definitely not and definitely will not be limited to the Patriots.

Selective refereeing is such perfect blunt force object for the scumbags of the NFL to keep games close, TV viewers in front of the TV, and improve chances of an optimal revenue (or even ego) outcome.
And anyone who believes this crowd in the NFL exec office will not use this quieter/subtler yet quite effective power for business (and other) purposes is shockingly ignorant and/or naive.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady · Dec 11, 2015

KontradictioN said:
So why do you watch if you're convinced that it's fixed from the top on down? What's the point?

Well I still watch Game of Thrones and WWE, I saw Hunger Games and all that stuff and I already knew the ending. Even with most movies, we kind of get the idea of how it might end, its the journey and characters that keeps us interested. It's just entertainment, it's all about the story or pathos.

HawaiianPatsfan · Dec 11, 2015

KontradictioN said:
So why do you watch if you're convinced that it's fixed from the top on down? What's the point?

Because there will be nothing more enjoyable and satisfying then to watch the Team defy the fix against all odds, and with the Superbowl. That feeling well get knowing 31 other owners (pure haters) are sitting in their box at the SB grinding their teeth, squeezing their fist, and dying is side will be the greatest feeling in a Patriots fan history.
I don't care, if the team wins the Super Bowl again this year, it will be an even better feeling then last years late interception. Knowing the league did spent a season doing everything they could to stop a team, and still failed but be far more satisfying.

HawaiianPatsfan · Dec 11, 2015

TheBostonStraggler said:
We may have the most big plays called back but at least they were all good penalty calls.

"We watched/reviewed the Gronk OPIs. Some of them were good and some were very close, maybe a badd call once"........blah blah blah. I've been saying it for over a month this is much more about selective refereeing. The wonderful thing about selective refereeing is the dimwit media and more than a few fans won't even consider that aspect of it. Selective refereeing is perfect game control/outcome material -- much cleaner than phantom calls. Example: Most TEs do X, refs flag X very rarely throughout a game/any game, Gronk does X again later in a game, ref now flags X, dimwit media (and many fans) review Gronk's X to see if there was even a hint of penalty. Since all X is borderline an infraction of a rule, regardless if it is rarely called, they get to claim "yea Gronk did push off, probably good call". Neat, clean, effective. The league gets to say "see Gronk puts up both arms and extends his arms 3 inches. That hits the threshold for a penalty. Good call". No one asks, no one has to answer "Hey media/league, let me show you 500 plays of X that are not called. Why is it repeatedly called on Gronk late in a games when TE Z I can show you 200 plays where he does X and is not called. Did the ref miss every one of those 200?? And the 200 of 25 other TEs?".
They have been using OL holding too. The threshold of offensive holding is being hit soooo often it is virtually common. Yet ref throws flag for holding at important point. Same deal of "well you can see the Guard's hand does kinda hook the right arm of the defender. Good call!". Another one is DPI.

I believe the NFL would not direct specific action against the Patriots. Even for these egotistical inflated D bags, even they don't feel entitlement to that kind of degree to get them in deep even legal water. But selective refereeing through points of emphasis, subtle notations, or general cultural attitude is happening. Gronk's massive statistical outlier compared to how obvious he is not doing anything outlier like compared to other TEs makes it clear the refs were somehow conditioned to single out Gronk.
Now, fyi, selective refereeing is definitely not and definitely will not be limited to the Patriots.

Selective refereeing is such perfect blunt force object for the scumbags of the NFL to keep games close, TV viewers in front of the TV, and improve chances of an optimal revenue (or even ego) outcome.
And anyone who believes this crowd in the NFL exec office will not use this quieter/subtler yet quite effective power for business (and other) purposes is shockingly ignorant and/or naive.

Did anyone else watch Last nights game?
My god was it one of the most enjoyable games to watch all season.
NOT 1 Single penalty called until about 5 mins left in the second quarter. Several unintentional face mask calls that had no affect on any play let fly. Please please tell me we get that crew in the playoffs.
O wait, i almost forgot, well defiantly have the worse crew switched over to our game.

BTTA · Dec 11, 2015

So the Pats are tied for 3rd lowest number of penalties accepted against, and are well ahead on big plays lost from penalties. That ratio is stunning. Pretty hard to accept it as just coincidence.

1960Pats · Dec 11, 2015

KontradictioN said:
For the record, I'm not entirely positive the game is fixed from the top down. If I was, I'd quit watching altogether. That's why I don't understand why those of you that are convinced it is continue to watch. I've turned two games off this year because of calls and that alone made it unwatchable. The game may be fixed and it could also be that the refs are incompetent too (which wouldn't surprise me given who commish is). If I one day get verification that the fix is in or if I become convinced, that's the last you'll hear of old uncle Kontra around these parts. I can watch the WWE if I'm looking for a predetermined outcome.

I think it's pretty obvious that the NYJFL is trying to influence what happens on the field of play. All you need to do is look at the way punishment is being handed out. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're fixing games, but I wouldn't put it past them either. They were clearly working against the Pats during last year's incredible run to the SB.

The reason I still watch is because I enjoy it very much when the Pats overcome the opposing teams as well as the administrators of the league. I also stick around in the hope that the owners will wake up and realize that they could be killing the goose that's laying the golden eggs by having that dipstick running things. The game is a mess right now.

I also want to see Tom Brady finish them off again.

venecol · Dec 11, 2015

Well at least we're not on the list of the 10 most unwatchable teams in the NFL, that would be a tad embarrassing.

Brady'sButtBoy · Dec 11, 2015

betterthanthealternative said:
So the Pats are tied for 3rd lowest number of penalties accepted against, and are well ahead on big plays lost from penalties. That ratio is stunning. Pretty hard to accept it as just coincidence.

You, sir, are correct!

MitchKumstein · Dec 11, 2015

RhodyPatriot said:
Nightmare scenario for Goodell and his henchmen is the Patriots winning the Super Bowl.
They do NOT want that to happen.

Exactly. goodell's toadies tried to set up Brady, and then rog had to spend the offseason watching Brady kick his ass in a courtroom. rog is probably lying in bed at night thinking about having to put that stupid fake smile on his face and complimenting Brady while handing him another Lombardi Trophy

venecol · Dec 11, 2015

I'm not going full conspiracy here. The fact is that it is not news that the refs have "consistently" sucked this year. There have been many other teams that have had outrageous calls against them that cost them the game.

The Pats are facing a multitude of issues: every team is out to beat the Champions so they generally play up against the Pats, the injuries have definately had a huge effect, the early bye did not helped at all, and yes the bad calls or lack of from the refs haven't helped. Regardless of all of that, it comes down to the players executing on the field, and frankly the team has been far from perfect the last 5 games.

TheBostonStraggler · Dec 11, 2015

HawaiianPatsfan said:
Did anyone else watch Last nights game?
My god was it one of the most enjoyable games to watch all season.
NOT 1 Single penalty called until about 5 mins left in the second quarter. Several unintentional face mask calls that had no affect on any play let fly. Please please tell me we get that crew in the playoffs.
O wait, i almost forgot, well defiantly have the worse crew switched over to our game.

I missed the game but I'm glad to hear it.
For me the principle of refereeing should be simple: call what is obvious otherwise let them play.
When the refs try to get granular on penalty calls it is likelier to lead to selective refereeing and competitive disadvantage to one or the other team. It also leads to a less satisfying product.

This is football. There is going to be pushing, shoving, hitting, grabbing etc on every play. Trying to micromanage the game via refereeing may too often end up a cluster fck. And while, of course, the refs will never be perfect, if they are tasked to call only what is obvious it will be a bit easier and provide a more equal competitive playing field.
In the future I would like to see every coach have the ability challenge any penalty called.
I would also like to see certain penalties assigned completely to video refereeing. False starts, offsides, illegal formations, delay of game, are examples of penalties that are unnecessary to have on field judgment. Good video technology should make calling these type penalties much much closer to precise if done in front of 4k screen by someone trained only for these specific penalties. And, hopefully, tasking the on field refs with less to watch may mean better quality.

Apparently the Pats have had the most big plays called back by penalty

Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

He/Him

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

PatsFans.com Supporter

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Similar threads