Coaches blew it with situational football

As long as Gronk is OK, I'm willing to write Sunday in Denver off as a bad night on many fronts and move on to Philadelphia.

aluminum seats said:

Haven't had coffee yet, but I thought Harper dropped it before he was touched.

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He doesn't catch it cleanly, because his eyes are on Latimer who is coming at him full speed and when he tries to secure the ball on the second attempt the Denver player already initiated contact preventing Harper to get the second hand on the ball and it falls out.

A fair catch signal would have given him full concentration on the ball. In fact he should have seen that Latimer was coming at him unblocked and called out a fair catch either way.

Unfortunately, just a bad play on multiple levels.

I believe this loss comes down to 2 things. Loss of hightower and poor offensive coaching in the 4th quarter.

Also, has anyone taken a view on why they ran the ball three times with time on the clock and timeouts available at the end of the first half?

DarrylS said:

FYI in his illustrious career Troy Brown fumbled 11 punts, during his tenure her Welker fumbled 5 punts.. when you are forced to use a practice squad player this kind of thing can happen. Cold snowy night on the big stage in the bright lights.. stuff happens.

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Reminded me of Slater's muffed punt in the freezing rain against the Steelers his rookie season. Let's not give up on Harper yet.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Also, has anyone taken a view on why they ran the ball three times with time on the clock and timeouts available at the end of the first half?

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Agreed that stretch was worthy of criticism.

convertedpatsfan said:

Meanwhile the Broncos scored in 1:17 without their timeout, and in fact, with US calling a timeout. They moved the ball 75 yards in 30 seconds, with a chunk of that letting the clock go down to the 2-minute instead of wasting a down to spike the ball.

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The Broncos could have got another play off before the two-minute warning, but they seemed rather blase about it after they made the first down. No sense of urgency. Brock actually looked confused when the warning rang and they were still trying to line up.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Also, has anyone taken a view on why they ran the ball three times with time on the clock and timeouts available at the end of the first half?

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They seemed to be playing it safe and not to lose. Maybe they were afraid of a turnover w/the weather conditions. Usually they come away with points in that situation. Points they badly needed in hindsight.

PatsFanSince74 said:

As long as Gronk is OK, I'm willing to write Sunday in Denver off as a bad night on many fronts and move on to Philadelphia.

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We have a *lot* to learn from it. I want to see them again in the AFCC game, as long as the f-ing refs don't work so hard to help the Broncos again.

I'd need to watch the game again to have a better conclusion, the game here ended 3 am and I was extremely pissed of for many reasons so my judgement is not the best, but I won't do that, anyway, I felt there was a huge momentum swing in the game, not necessarily after the muffed punt, but at some point in the 4th quarter Denver stopped playing conservative and they saw they could win that game, after that moment we couldn't stop them anymore, Brock was playing like a seasoned veteran and our defense couldn't do much.

Run 3 times, pass, I don't know, I thought we were going to lose anyway. 2 minutes or 1 minute in the clock, they did score fast to the point we got the ball back to tie the game. I wonder if BB was not trusting the defense to get that stop and played his cards to not give the ball back to Denver, It is not the best decision now, looking after the game, but at the time I did agree with that, it bit in the ass but no guarantees it would not have bitten anyway. Plenty of time in the clock and we got the previous first down with a pass, our possession started with more than 3 minutes in the clock, you don't play prevent offense with this time left and leading with 4 points. The running plays were ending early, like 3 seconds and Blount was shut down, he is no Marshawn Lynch that even when he's stopped for no gain keeps the play alive chewing the clock with his motor.

The "If we did run Gronk would not get hurt" is something I don't even want to discuss because that's a low level childish discussion, I expect more from folks here.

My opinion, the offense did more than I expected in terms of points, I thought we were going to score 17 - 20 points tops, the defense played great until this momentum swing, I think the players took from the game what the game gave to them, no more, no less, the circumstances were bad, specially on the offensive side.

This loss is on the coaches, the muffed punt was a killer, we all know one ST play can change the outcome of a game, we won Denver 2 years ago under the same circumstances, a muffed punt in a bad weather game, so this is nothing new, payback is hard to digest. When I saw Harper running for the ball without a fair catch I was not surprised, it's something I see every week in Jaguars, Miami games, I never expected this kind of mistake in a Pats game under BB.

Mark. said:

They seemed to be playing it safe and not to lose. Maybe they were afraid of a turnover w/the weather conditions. Usually they come away with points in that situation. Points they badly needed in hindsight.

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In BB I trust, but they got the ball at the 20 with 2:07 left on the clock, three time outs and the two minute warning. For Brady, that's usually "all night." Instead, they run the ball five times, to the extent that the Broncos call a TO so they have to punt or run a play.

At altitude, even in crappy weather, I like Gostkowski's chances from 60 yards in especially without a lot of wind, so all they had to do was move the ball to the Bronco's 43. I don't get it. But, in BB I trust...but those would have been three big points...

Tunescribe said:

Harper should not be returning punts, period. NEVER a job for a rookie. NEVER. I don't care if it's a defensive lineman down there catching the ball. Once your aces are out (Edelman, Amendola), you put in whoever has the surest hands to field punts and cut your losses.

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Certainly, Harper's fumble was the turning point in the game. And it was also the biggest coaching mistake of the game, I agree. Oddly, Chung had been out to receive the previous punt. That made sense, having a vet back there who once returned punts regularly and would surely show proper discretion over the rookie urge to make a play the coaches will notice. Why Chung wasn't back out on the ensuing punt that Harper fumbled is a legitimate question.

50-yard-line said:

We'll agree to disagree. Giving the ball back to Denver on the wrong side of two minutes gave the Broncos time to keep their playbook intact, without having a second-game-starting QB trying to manage it all. If you were playing against 2013 Peyton, I get it.

Not so much here. Kill that damned clock!

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I think there's a bigger picture you're missing here.

Yes, killing clock is important. But so is winning the game.

We're at our own 40-yard line. 30 more yards and we're potentially in range for a FG to put us up 7. If we kill clock and punt the ball, the Broncos have to score a TD. So they can't just tie, they have to go for the win. So you basically are going to give them a chance to try to win the game, but make it as tough as possible for them.

There's a counter-point here that we could potentially hold the ball and win the game. Or at the very least, potentially save ourselves the loss and give us a chance in OT while also killing clock. You maximize the clock killing, you reduce your odds of scoring. I don't see why we can't strike a balance in-between.

We often think about maximums without looking at optimization and balance. In this scenario, we had a decent chance to hold onto the ball, kill more clock, potentially score. Instead, many want to just run it into the wall a few times and punt and hope for the best. I disagree. I'd take less clock killing for more chance at winning.

One important aspect of returning a punt that is not being discussed is tracking the ball. Given the timing of his release I believe they did instruct him to make a fair catch or let the ball bounce, but, if the ball hit the ground right in front of the receiver it can touch him and bounce for any direction without control. I don't have a replay here but I think he did 2 steps forward to adjust and catch the ball. So if that's the case there was a mistake in tracking the ball, either for a lack of experience or because the snow and wind can have an effect and make the ball change direction or making the punt shorter suddenly.

Considering he was playing punt returner against the Bills and in practice, I tend to go on the weather effect, which does not eliminate the inexperience factor either. If that's the case it makes the decision even more bizarre. The ball was on the 40 yard line for Christs sake.

I know BB doesn't tolerate this kind of mistake and already cut the player but I bet he knows there was a decisive coaching brain fart right there. A more experienced player and under contract like McCourthy or Chung would take a better decision, putting a guy trying to make a name in that circumstance is like giving an important task for an intern, it can be done correctly but there is a big chance of a **** up.

Todd Bradley said:

Throwing with 2 minutes and 30-someodd seconds instead of milking the clock to the 2-Minute Warning against a team with only 1 Timeout left was the most egregious mistake made.

Not only did it give Denver plenty of time, it cost us Gronk.

Unreal.

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I agree in that I would have run the ball to chew up clock. However: A) that's just not how the Patriots operate. This isn't the first time this year we have gone for the win instead of the safe play. (B) It didn't cost Gronkowski his injury. He could have been injured blocking for the run play. Football players play football and injuries happen.

As far as the situation: If the Patriots run the ball 3 times? They take the clock to the 2 minute warning (Broncos use their timeout to keep the clock from running under 2 minutes). After the 2 minute warning break they punt. That takes it to 1:55. Since the Broncos have used their timeout already they are now, at best, at their own 20 with 1:55 to go needing to score a TD. Any passes 20 yards downfield plays that are in bounds will take 20 to 25 seconds off the clock. Just to get to midfield would probably put the Broncos in the mode that they have to throw to the sidelines to save clock....thereby limiting their options. IMHO this leads to a likely win. But as mentioned this is not how the Patriots operate.

Todd Bradley said:

Throwing with 2 minutes and 30-someodd seconds instead of milking the clock to the 2-Minute Warning against a team with only 1 Timeout left was the most egregious mistake made.

Not only did it give Denver plenty of time, it cost us Gronk.

Unreal.

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My brother and I debated this one during the game. Running in this spot just didn't 'feel right'. After all, the Broncos were stopping the run game all night long. Running in this situation surely would have resulted in a punt (but still plenty of time for Denver). It felt more like running in this situation was killing the clock on our chances for a tying score (if needed).

In this case, we were actually fortunate Denver left 1:09 for us to score.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Also, has anyone taken a view on why they ran the ball three times with time on the clock and timeouts available at the end of the first half?

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I did not understand that at the end of the half. They always go for it. Even a field goal attempt is a win there. Very disappointed.