The Potential Ascensions of Christopher Harper and James White

VrabelJr said:

This thread is like when people were chastising BB when Gronk got hurt on an extra point play despite Gronk having been on that unit for 3 seasons. Nobody cares until something bad happens.

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That's right, Bro.

It's not as if I've been warning about this sort of thing happening since I joined this Site.

Oh.

Wait.

I have been.

Clown.

***

How bizarre ~ but not even remotely unprecedented or shocking ~ that a throwaway line of mine should trigger so many offensive responses.

The Irony is that it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with my long-held ~ and long-published ~ views that we should've extended fist Uncanny Danny and then Shifty Shane, in early 2012 and 2014, respectively.

I say again: I'd be the last guy in the World to suggest that disagreeing with me on my outlook on those two guys was unreasonable: There is not a one of you who places less Draft Value on HalfBack than I do.

Not one. I draft Day 3 guys and UFAs and stock my Roster accordingly.

So if you want to suggest that we should constantly churn these guys, I may or may not agree with the individual Calls, but you'll find a more sympathetic ear with me than with anyone.

What disgusts me is the way y'all are arguing: Every one of you has managed to ignore the simple fact that Vereen helped carry our Offense deep into the 2013 PlayOffs ~ after the bewilderingly foolish Decision to cut WoodHead loose left us wafer-thin at SpeedBack ~ and act as if my supposition that manning a demonstrably and historically crucial Position with Depth of Talent ~ and investing accordingly ~ is somehow preposterous.

And everyone of you is brazenly ignoring the fact that Lewis hadn't done anything since 2012.

Yet you act as if he was even a Factor, 9 months ago.

And you do so despite Evidence ~ our steep Drop Off ere the last 3 weeks ~ staring you in the face.

Can you make Arguments against my position??

Sure you can.

But to suggest that my position is unsupportable is...unsupportable.

The Vermin who're disgorging uninformed Tripe...Well...that's what you do.

Ozzy and Patty, though...You surprise and disappoint me.

I grow disgusted with this Discussion.

Peace.

So if they'd signed Vereen and HE had gotten injured, as he did in 2013...

...you know what, never mind. Anyone who calls others here 'vermin' is not capable of civil discourse.

okterrific said:

Slater has 1 catch on 7 targets over eight years.

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Yup, 42 yard catch against the dolphins

Off The Grid said:

And yet you don't consider allowing such dynamic Talent at such a crucial Position go a Mistake??

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, my friend.

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I must disagree with you as well.

Much though I appreciate what Vereen contributed to the Triumphant Denouement of The Most Recent Campaign (oh God, Grid, I'm doing it too!) I can't agree that he was an exceptional player to warrant the kind of money that I'm very happy that he's getting from our Rivals in New York.

IMO it is not about like vs. dislike of Vereen, as there was little to dislike in his play, but the money he got in NY would probably not fit the economic structure employed by the Patriots.. his salary hits are 2.5 Million this year and about 5 million for the next 2 years...

As is the case of many of our players, the Pats know how to utilize his strengths more than most other teams.. he has 188 yards rushing for the G-men and 36 receptions for 321 yds and 3 td's... would he be an asset tonight, of course.. but this is the same method we have seen used by this team since 2001...

venecol said:

I always felt that out of all the players we lost last year Vereen was the most crucial. Didn't have a second thought about Revis and Browner. Vereen was clutch in the playoffs and saved our but in the SB with crucial 3rd down catches. I think the plan was always to replace him with one of White, Lewis, Cadet, etc. Cadet got injured so we never got to see him and then let go probably after seeing Lewis production. I think and hope that White will pick up where Lewis left off. Even if he is 75% Lewis, I'll take it.

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I think that it would have been insane to pay Vereen what he got from the Giants. You don't pay $4M a year for a RB that isn't dynamic with the ball in his hands(except straight line speed) and who can't run with the ball. Really nice to have on a rookie contract, but not for that much money.

Marinlik said:

I think that it would have been insane to pay Vereen what he got from the Giants. You don't pay $4M a year for a RB that isn't dynamic with the ball in his hands(except straight line speed) and who can't run with the ball. Really nice to have on a rookie contract, but not for that much money.

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Agreed. If Lewis played 16 games and had a 1200 yd year then he's worth that kind of cake.

Hey guys, new to the forum. Enjoyed reading your posts here for a long time now.

I want Harper to succeed, but I think his upside is very limited by his measurables. Sure you can overcome lack of measurables to be a decent player with intelligence and attention to detail, but at 175 pounds, the lack of speed and short area quickness, as evidenced by a 3-cone time of 7.03 will limit his ability to separate from coverage. Consider that Edelman and amendola have times of 6.62 and 6.81, and both outweigh Harper by 15-20 pounds. It will be tough for Harper to gain the separation on short routes, and withstand the hits over the middle like those guys.

I think Keshawn Martin has much higher upside with really good speed and quickness, and he has shown a similar ability to pick up the system and catch the ball away from his body. Hopefully both these guys step up and help us win today.

patchick said:

I agree 100%...but that still doesn't mean they should have re-signed him.

(In contrast, letting Woodhead go was inexplicable to me. IMO he was much more of an impact player at a lower cost.)

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And still is.

robertweathers said:

Agreed. If Lewis played 16 games and had a 1200 yd year then he's worth that kind of cake.

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Fully agree. If Lewis could be trusted to stay healthy a full season, which he can't really be yet. Then it would be a no brainer to give him as much as Vereen got. Lewis is a play maker on a whole different level compared to Vereen.

This game hinges to no small degree on the troublesome hamstring of one Mr. Martin.

Keshawn Martin can bring it--if he's healthy.

I predict a big game from him, if his questionable status is upgraded.

Why couldn't we put Gronk as a wide out? And Harper/Martin as a slot? Martin does have higher upside. He ran a 4.45, 6.85 on the three-cone drill, and had a truly impressive vertical leap of nearly 40 inches on his pro day.

I can see Lefell and Martin both having over a hundred yards each in pass catches. And it's time for Scott Chandler to get a bounce in his step and some Stickum on his hands.

If we built a team the way some of you want, we would have 5 QBs, 5 Slot WRs, 5 TEs and 7 3rd down RBs each making an average of $7 million per year without any cap room to sign 31 other roster spots.

Off The Grid said:

That's right, Bro.

It's not as if I've been warning about this sort of thing happening since I joined this Site.

Oh.

Wait.

I have been.

Clown.

***

How bizarre ~ but not even remotely unprecedented or shocking ~ that a throwaway line of mine should trigger so many offensive responses.

The Irony is that it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with my long-held ~ and long-published ~ views that we should've extended fist Uncanny Danny and then Shifty Shane, in early 2012 and 2014, respectively.

I say again: I'd be the last guy in the World to suggest that disagreeing with me on my outlook on those two guys was unreasonable: There is not a one of you who places less Draft Value on HalfBack than I do.

Not one. I draft Day 3 guys and UFAs and stock my Roster accordingly.

So if you want to suggest that we should constantly churn these guys, I may or may not agree with the individual Calls, but you'll find a more sympathetic ear with me than with anyone.

What disgusts me is the way y'all are arguing: Every one of you has managed to ignore the simple fact that Vereen helped carry our Offense deep into the 2013 PlayOffs ~ after the bewilderingly foolish Decision to cut WoodHead loose left us wafer-thin at SpeedBack ~ and act as if my supposition that manning a demonstrably and historically crucial Position with Depth of Talent ~ and investing accordingly ~ is somehow preposterous.

And everyone of you is brazenly ignoring the fact that Lewis hadn't done anything since 2012.

Yet you act as if he was even a Factor, 9 months ago.

And you do so despite Evidence ~ our steep Drop Off ere the last 3 weeks ~ staring you in the face.

Can you make Arguments against my position??

Sure you can.

But to suggest that my position is unsupportable is...unsupportable.

The Vermin who're disgorging uninformed Tripe...Well...that's what you do.

Ozzy and Patty, though...You surprise and disappoint me.

I grow disgusted with this Discussion.

Peace.

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Take a break OTG. Playing Revision Historian is boring. Every year you have to go in training camp with a question mark at one or two positions at a minimum.

Anyone saying we shouldn't have signed Vereen because Lewis emerged is just as guilty of revisionist history as people saying we should have signed Vereen because Lewis got hurt.

The only people that are right are the ones that say we should not have resigned Vereen regardless because what the Giants gave him is way too damn much.

Vereen was not worth the money he's getting nor was Woodhead. Neither of them are doing much better where they are and were merely product of the offensive system in NE. There is always some faster midget waiting to fill in that position, when the current one decides that he's worth Adrian Petersen-type money. Unfortunately, this season, Lewis got hurt. There will probably be a replacement for him at the start of next season.

The problem we're having right now is a Julian Edelman problem. Brady was a more confident QB with him on the field. Now Brady is playing as if his o-line truly sucks, and it does, and throwing as if he has scrubs at RB and WR right now, and he does. Defenses can contain Gronk with assistance from the refs, especially with Edelman out, and whatever happened to LaFell? That's why the offense is so unproductive. Brady needs to wrap up the tour and find a more effective way to beat Ds now.

Going undefeated now seems highly unlikely compared to Carolina, who I hope gets embarrassed by the Saints next week. Goodell is pushing for Carolina to go 19-0, against us in the SB. That ref assistance the Panthers were getting against the Redskins was suspect.

Sad.

Mike the Brit said:

(oh God, Grid, I'm doing it too!)

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Mike Longshanks?

Addendum.

I'm not going to take the Risk of reading the responses that followed my last, for I am an emotional fellow and an old fashioned fellow, and am far too likely to read something that sets me off, again.

So if I don't respond to the Posts that appeared in the Interim, even if they were directed at me ~ though I do not presume that any were ~ please do not take Offense: I passed them by in the Interest of Peace.

Patty and Oz? I strongly hope that we can put last night's sharp Differences behind us, for my Admiration for both of you and your Writings is of course unalloyed by our occasional Spats.

And I'm only boring anyone who reads this because Honor requires that I make an Apology: JMC's post was offensive and warranted a sharp rebuke, indeed. But to refer to you as "Vermin"? I agree with the earlier Poster: It was not warranted. As offensive as your remarks were, I overshot the mark, and you deserve an Apology, and I do apologize. I was tired and irritable, and I overreacted: One bad act does not define a Person, and while you offended me deeply, you deserved a better response than I gave you.

And in case anyone's wondering, though I pray all know better:

Nobody asked me to apologize.

That I did for myself.

All i'm seeing is descending.

Tonight's loss is on Chris Harper.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady said:

Going undefeated now seems highly unlikely

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Yes. Very highly unlikely.

patchick said:

I agree 100%...but that still doesn't mean they should have re-signed him.

(In contrast, letting Woodhead go was inexplicable to me. IMO he was much more of an impact player at a lower cost.)

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I don't think Woody wanted to come back to be Vereen's backup or split significant time.