Loss of Jody Nelson exposes Aaron Rogers:

Ivan · Nov 28, 2015

1960Pats said:
For some reason many people in and around the NFL don't want to give Brady credit. I don't know if it's an NFC thing, the NYJFL or Manning clan influence, that Brady was such a late pick or that he has played under Belichick his whole career. Whatever it is though, he simply doesn't get his due. I've been watching NFL QBs since the days of Johnny U, and this kid is the best I've ever seen. The only thing he doesn't do well is throw long passes accurately at times. The rest of the NFL should be thankful for that.

Acknowledging how great Brady is means accepting the fact that the Patriots really have been a great team for the past 15 year s, and they simply do not want to go there.

Ian · Nov 28, 2015

Ivan said:
The Brady criticism wasn't that "he sucks" for the most part, rather it was " trade Brady while they can... It's time for Jimmy G........" Which was still ******ed. Much of the Rodgers criticism here is of the "Rodgers Sucks" mentality, which is every bit as ignorant as a Jets forum. I get the recent criticism that he is not playing well and still has plenty of weapons he has experience with. I also get the take that he is overrated by the media, also true, Brady is clearly the better QB, my only objection is to the "he sucks" criticism, which is idiotic.

I agree - I don't think "he sucks". My issue is the fact that the critics seem to ignore how consistent and strong Brady has been and continues to be while overlooking that and instead calling Rodgers "the best player in the NFL" when he hasn't eclipsed Brady yet. Like I said, when you go down the list you're only really left with Brady and Rodgers as the two best still remaining quarterbacks in the league playing at a high-level in terms of overall skill and their body of work over a long-term span. But for now until Brady drops off, I haven't seen any reason yet to think that he's still not playing better than the rest of his peers. Not saying Rodgers "sucks", but I do feel Brady is still the better of the two and he's also still playing that way.

TommyD4207 · Nov 28, 2015

JJDChE said:
So are you totally discounting regular season stats? The guy has 105 passer rating in the reg season and 101 in the post-season.

FYI, if you discount last year Brady is under .500 in the postseason since 2009, too. Stop cherrypicking stats.

Brady obviously had a great postseason run early in his career. This thread was a discussion of who's the best QB right now, so I used the comparable time frame when Rodgers has been active.

I guess he doesn't have a bunch of 4th qtr comebacks, but considering the success he's had with GB he really hasn't had many opportunities. 4th qtr comebacks has become this kind of en vogue statisitc, but I just don't think it's that valuable. It's as much of an indicator of not playing well in the first three quarters as it is of some kind 'clutch indicator'.

I'm not saying he sucks.

Anything but.

And I didn't even mention 4th Quarter Comebacks (of which he only has 9, less than Mark Sanchez, Andrew Luck and Bubby Brister - the same amount as Ryan Tannehill - and just one more than Matt Cassel and Colin Kaepernick).

All I said was, when his team has trailed by 9 points or more (That's two scores), he has never led his team back to victory. In eight years of starting for a talented, perennial contender, when his team trails by two scores, the game is over.

Tom Brady accomplished that same feat three times in the playoffs alone last year.

You don't think it's valuable. For me, I'd feel a lot better knowing that the game isn't over when my team trails 10-0.

There is no greater front-runner in the NFL than Aaron Rodgers.

Archeryaddict12 · Nov 28, 2015

JJDChE said:
So are you totally discounting regular season stats? The guy has 105 passer rating in the reg season and 101 in the post-season.

FYI, if you discount last year Brady is under .500 in the postseason since 2009, too. Stop cherrypicking stats.

Brady obviously had a great postseason run early in his career. This thread was a discussion of who's the best QB right now, so I used the comparable time frame when Rodgers has been active.

I guess he doesn't have a bunch of 4th qtr comebacks, but considering the success he's had with GB he really hasn't had many opportunities. 4th qtr comebacks has become this kind of en vogue statisitc, but I just don't think it's that valuable. It's as much of an indicator of not playing well in the first three quarters as it is of some kind 'clutch indicator'.

Newton has been better than Rodgers this year. Brady is the best qb in the league today. Rodgers isn't close.

Archeryaddict12 · Nov 28, 2015

ExpatPack said:
What brilliant word-smithing there.

I will commend some of the posters on this board for not following the ridiculous crap written about Aaron Rodgers. I've tried to address it before but I've found it pointless.

No, Rodgers isn't having a great year, so let's all just pile all the negative comments we can on top of him from the "he's always been overrated" to "it's everybody's fault but his." You sure as hell don't read what they're saying about Rodgers in GB if you think that.

Rodgers' bad year would make 20 other QBs in this league drool.

As poorly as the GB offense has played, it is interesting to note that in the last several games "choker" Rodgers has done the following:

Carolina: 4th quarter comeback against a team they totally outplayed the Packers, missed a 2-point conversion that would have tied it with an INT. Fault: Rodgers.
Detroit: 4th quarter comeback, down by that 9-point difference you guys always love to bring up (as opposed to 1000 other different stats where Rodgers shines, and no, it's not 0-28 it's less than that). Game tying 2-point conversion dropped by Davante Adams. Defender made an excellent play on the ball but it was still in Adams' hands and he dropped it. With seconds left, Rodgers marches the Packers down into FG range for the game winner and Crosgy shanks it. Packers lose.
Chicago: Rodgers almost single -handedly marches the Packers down the field in another last-chance drive, scrambling and passing for big gains. 3rd and goal. James Jones drops a TD pass. In his hands. 4th and goal. No receivers are open because they all do curl-ins and sit there, Rodgers puts the ball high to Davante Adams, it's catchable, goes through his hands.

3 comebacks, one loss on Rodgers, twice not.

Irony is that if Brady's receivers had dropped TD passes like the Packers receivers had, I'd bet good money Brady would have gone ballistic and those guys would be benched, and you'd all be screaming for them to be benched.

I'll just finish by saying it may be a down year for the Rodgers and the Packers. If you all want to think that Rodgers never was that good and he's washed up, be my guest.

I'm done. Carry on.

What game was it a few weeks back when lafell dropped several passes, same with Jules? Anyways Pats players made a ton of drops, and Brady got them the W. Rodgers when it counts is mediocre at best. Rodgers won't win you a game where he's faced adversity like the GOAT of tom Brady. And Rodgers isn't better then Brady. Never has and never will.

QuantumMechanic · Nov 28, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
And I didn't even mention 4th Quarter Comebacks (of which he only has 9, less than Mark Sanchez, Andrew Luck and Bubby Brister - the same amount as Ryan Tannehill - and just one more than Matt Cassel and Colin Kaepernick).

The number of 4th Quarter Comebacks is a mindnumbingly stupid stat. That's like saying Montana is better than Brady because Montana is 4-0 in the Superbowl while Brady is 4-2.

For example, I'll take a QB who has few 4QCBs because his team hardly ever trails in the 4th quarter over a QB who has a bunch of them because his team trails all the time.

So if you're going to talk about 4QCBs don't bother me with the number of them. Instead, tell me:

How many games the QB has played
How many times his team was trailing in the 4th quarter
How many of those times his team came back and won.

All three of those numbers are needed for there to be any value in any 4QCB discussion. Just the number of 4QCBs is completely meaningless on its own.

libra957 · Nov 28, 2015

Careful now, if we lose to the broncos there might rumors about the loss of Amendola and Edelman exposing Brady.

jah · Nov 28, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
The number of 4th Quarter Comebacks is a mindnumbingly stupid stat. That's like saying Montana is better than Brady because Montana is 4-0 in the Superbowl while Brady is 4-2.

For example, I'll take a QB who has few 4QCBs because his team hardly ever trails in the 4th quarter over a QB who has a bunch of them because his team trails all the time.

So if you're going to talk about 4QCBs don't bother me with the number of them. Instead, tell me:

How many games the QB has played

How many times his team was trailing in the 4th quarter

How many of those times his team came back and won.

All three of those numbers are needed for there to be any value in any 4QCB discussion. Just the number of 4QCBs is completely meaningless on its own.

I totally get your angle and agree to an extent--there really is something to be said about the fact that, more often than not, Rodgers doesn't even need to mount a comeback. However, his performance in the situations where that *doesn't* happen is definitely not what you'd expect from an elite QB. I feel like even Peyton would have pulled that CHI game off.

MassPats38 · Nov 28, 2015

Ian said:
I'm sick of hearing how much better Rodgers is than Brady as well when the casual person looking strictly at numbers decides to make the comparison. I don't recall the Patriots going through a 1-4 stretch at any point in the last 15 years, and Brady's ability to keep this team competitive during the worst of circumstances is something that continually gets lost.

That essentially leaves Brady and Rodgers as the only two left still playing who have played consistently well, but Brady's done it for much longer and is still doing it, and as the stats show, in tough situations the guy rises to the occasion. So it's not a knock on Rodgers, but the experts calling him "the best player in the NFL" is just obnoxious. Until Brady starts consistently making bad decisions and not helping this team win football games, it's hard to put him below any player at this point.

I agree with what you wrote, Ian.

As an FYI, Brady did that in 2009, in weeks 10 through 13 (1-3, not 1-4). Brady threw 6 TDs to 5 INTs over that stretch. 0-4 in 2002 (weeks 4 -8 with a bye).

I believe Rodgers is great, as is Brady. But your point about consistency is worth noting. A point was brought up by a commentator recently in discussing coach of the year. Belichick's success hurts his chances because he is always in the conversation. Brady is pretty much the same thing. They become conversation when they stumble rather than when they succeed (How does one go from 'great' to 'greater'?) They are victims of their own success. Everyone else is the flavor of the week, and need only string together some wins to get victory parades and MVP candidate discussion.

Rodgers is a great QB. Better than the other also rans. The Packers should have been in the Super Bowl last year, but for the lousy coaching. I would not lay that loss at Rodgers's feet. But the fact that their coach did not turn Rodgers loose is a stark contrast to what happens with Brady (I point to the Niners game a couple of years ago if asked why I keep watching when the game looks out of hand). I still believe Brady is the once in a generation "real deal", and anyone looking to find the successor to that crown better make sure it is more than a single bad game before offering that opinion.

HawaiianPatsfan · Nov 28, 2015

Rawky77 said:
Irony is that if Brady's receivers had dropped TD passes like the Packers receivers had, I'd bet good money Brady would have gone ballistic and those guys would be benched, and you'd all be screaming for them to be benched.

I'll just finish by saying it may be a down year for the Rodgers and the Packers. If you all want to think that Rodgers never was that good and he's washed up, be my guest.

I'm done. Carry on.

With all due respect to your observations, Welker in two different playoff games dropped passes which were our last chance to win. No one called for Welker to be benched.

Regarding Rogers; no is saying hes a scrub, he is a highly gifted athlete and passer. What he is not is the G. O. A. T.
Rogers has everything you can physically observe but he lacks one thing which can not be easily seen.

In my estimation Rogers lacks the heart of a Champion.

The one thing which can only be measured over time in wins. It is most easily seen in come back wins. Where the mind can not see how to win but the heart believes it and it happens. TB is the epitome of expressing a champions heart. A champions heart never doubts and it inspires all who are around it to believe as well. That is why TB makes the rest of team better because he believes that they will win so fervently that others are caught up in his never say die attitude. TB is a true natural leader who is able to get those around him to believe just because he believes. He inspires others to believe and brings out the best in them.

And to set the record straight Rogers has had 28 opportunities in his present career to overcome a nine point or more deficit in the second half and is 0-28 in those attempts.[/QUOTE]

Its not the 2nd half, its 9 points period. So the trick to beat him is to come out swinging early and go up by 9.

A man named Brady · Nov 28, 2015

Brady hasn't really played well without gronk the last 3 seasons. His numbers drop drastically

Joker · Nov 29, 2015

A man named Brady said:
Brady hasn't really played well without gronk the last 3 seasons. His numbers drop drastically

uh...WUT?...Gronk played 15 games last season (sat out the meaningless Buffalo game). He's played all 10 games so far this season. The Pats went 12-4 in 2013 losing Gronk after 7 games and lost in the AFCCG to Denver. Drastic drop? Brady had more total yards in 2013 than 2014. You are inferring that Brady is an inferior QB without Gronkowski. Why?

Wheelman · Nov 29, 2015

MassPats38 said:
I believe Rodgers is great, as is Brady. But your point about consistency is worth noting. A point was brought up by a commentator recently in discussing coach of the year. Belichick's success hurts his chances because he is always in the conversation. Brady is pretty much the same thing. They become conversation when they stumble rather than when they succeed (How does one go from 'great' to 'greater'?) They are victims of their own success. Everyone else is the flavor of the week, and need only string together some wins to get victory parades and MVP candidate discussion.

The coach of the year award is so dumb. They should call it what it really is. The surprise coach of the year.

Belichick should have won coach of the year in 2013.

NashuaPats · Nov 29, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
The number of 4th Quarter Comebacks is a mindnumbingly stupid stat. That's like saying Montana is better than Brady because Montana is 4-0 in the Superbowl while Brady is 4-2.

For example, I'll take a QB who has few 4QCBs because his team hardly ever trails in the 4th quarter over a QB who has a bunch of them because his team trails all the time.

So if you're going to talk about 4QCBs don't bother me with the number of them. Instead, tell me:

How many games the QB has played

How many times his team was trailing in the 4th quarter

How many of those times his team came back and won.

All three of those numbers are needed for there to be any value in any 4QCB discussion. Just the number of 4QCBs is completely meaningless on its own.

Brady's regular season record is 170-47 for a 78.3 winning %. Rodgers is 77-37 for a 67.5 winning %. Rodgers took over a team that was 13-3 the year before he took over as QB. The Pats were 5-11 the year before and were 0-2 and considered one of the worst teams in the league when Brady took over and went on to win the Super Bowl that season.

Brady has 37 career regular season 4th quarter comebacks while Rodgers has 9. That means Brady's teams have been behind in the 4th quarter 84 times winning 37 times for a winning percentage of 44%. Rodgers' teams have been behind 46 times in the 4th quarter winning 9 times for 19.6%. Obviously, that doesn't include context, but the shear number of times should even things out pretty well especially when we know Rodgers has never come back from a 9 point deficit and we remember Brady doing that in dramatic fashion many times including twice in last year's playoffs. Also, Brady is 6 for 14 when trailing in the 4th quarter in the playoffs while Rodgers is 1 for 6. These stats are very telling and you don't ever hear them pointed out outside of Patsfans.com. These stats speak to poise, ability to overcome adversity, and heart. And it's a landslide. To be fair to Rodgers, no other QB in history matches up to Brady in these situations.

I'm not trying to tear down Rodgers. He's an outstanding QB. I'm trying to point out how good Brady is. As good as Brady is and the accolades he has received, I still don't think he gets his due credit from the likes of ESPN and most football analysts while they were all too quick to anoint Rodgers as the best in the league. Out of frustration, many of us Patriots fans can be overly critical of Rodgers.

supafly · Nov 29, 2015

Eh, while I obviously agree that Rodgers never belonged on the same level as Tom Terrific, he's still by far the 2nd best QB in the league.

The OP was correct. Once Nelson went down and the lack of an adequate running game reared its head, the Pack were quickly exposed. The poor play of Devonte Adams has hurt them even more.

I think it's a total team effort, though. I still wouldn't totally count them out just yet, either. Those kinds of NFC wild card teams can be a pain in the ass come January. Just look at the complete game that GB put up @Minnesota last week.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady · Nov 29, 2015

I'm not saying Rodger's sucks, I just don't see what sets him apart from Romo outside of statistics. Many can use stats to make arguments about so and so but stats does not provide the full context of what happens during the game. I have watched Rodgers play and I have not been "wow-ed" by his play, no more than I have Romo, the past 2 seasons, Palmer, Eli Manning, Newton this season or Brees, who I've actually been impressed with since '05, when he embarrassed us at home. I don't get the hype around Rodgers at all. It's good that he protects his stats, but like the fraudulent pre-crowned GOAT before him, I'm talking about PeyMe Manning, he will never live up to the hype.

Am I targeting Rogers because some fools in the media are brainwashing the public into thinking he's better than Brady? Of course. However, it doesn't make my argument any less true. Same could be said for that overrated Luck, who hasn't shown since his NFL debut that he should be mention in the same breath as Brady, let alone play on the same field as Brady.

I hate when people us Belichick as the excuse for why Brady is better than most. I hate the fact that the "analysts" has regressed back to the "dink and dunk" BS to explain why Brady is an inferior QB when Rodgers dinks and dunks about as much as Brady, he is just alot more accurate when he throws deep. Well most QBs in the NFL today, are better deep passers than Brady, should Brady be ranked beneath them too?

NFL loves to spin the media and create its own stars. Brady was likely the product of that in the beginning, but at least he capitalized on it before the media got tired of him. Manning, Rodgers, that sorry Russell Wilson and Luck, just ain't gonna happen. They ain't Brady and they won't be the GOAT when all is said and done.

TommyD4207 · Nov 29, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
The number of 4th Quarter Comebacks is a mindnumbingly stupid stat. That's like saying Montana is better than Brady because Montana is 4-0 in the Superbowl while Brady is 4-2.

For example, I'll take a QB who has few 4QCBs because his team hardly ever trails in the 4th quarter over a QB who has a bunch of them because his team trails all the time.

So if you're going to talk about 4QCBs don't bother me with the number of them. Instead, tell me:

How many games the QB has played

How many times his team was trailing in the 4th quarter

How many of those times his team came back and won.

All three of those numbers are needed for there to be any value in any 4QCB discussion. Just the number of 4QCBs is completely meaningless on its own.

How about 0-28 when his team trails by 9 points or more at any point in the game?

That's seriously a meaningless statistic to you?

PatsFanInVa · Nov 29, 2015

libra957 said:
Careful now, if we lose to the broncos there might rumors about the loss of Amendola and Edelman exposing Brady.

It's been 53 long years, but I'm finally the next man up! I'm ready coach!

Sirrously... it's nice to have a QB who can get the ball out fast to exactly the right spot, an un-coverable tight end, and - because the Pats like depth - still a couple of viable options at RB.

This is also how "diamonds in the rough" get their shots. I am sure we all remember how Julian Edelman was "no Wes Welker."

This is a team that's had to battle for its wins. Despite being the SB champs, we're not dominating the regular season like the (non-champion but shoulda coulda woulda been champion) 2007 team. I still expect to lose a regular season game (if only so that the nonsense about 19-0 doesn't start).

I know it's not either/or, but I want one for the thumb for Brady way more.

What's that you say? Peckers fans aren't having a similar conversation? Haven't since the 60s?

Oh that's right.

alvinnf · Nov 29, 2015

Here is my list of top 5 elite qb's, today!!

1= who cares!!
2= who cares!!!
3= who cares!!!!
4= who cares!!!!!
5= who cares!!!!!!

You see it's actually quite scientific if you like the total sport and respect the effort of the "teams".
Don't let ESPN influence your mind or corrupt your soul.

I miss old football.......

AzorianPats · Nov 29, 2015

HawaiianPatsfan said:
The only two

Agree. Most people don't know this but, Rodgers is 0-28 when down by more then 9 points.
And rodgers is like 101 in NFL History with come back drives at 13.
The dude is a Choke artist at its finest. View attachment 11419
View attachment 11420
View attachment 11421
View attachment 11422

Just let that sink in People.

I'm sorry, but am I the only one that notices Peyton atop that list? So according to that list, Peyton is clutch now??? Am I the only one that sees something wrong??

Point I'm trying to make is simple. Let your eyes do the talking. Everyone can see how great Brady is. No need to put down Rodgers just to make Brady look better. He doesn't need it, besides there's more than enough room for another great QB. The insecurities of some Pats fans is kinda sad.

We all seen how great Rodgers can be first hand when the Pats played in Lambeau last year. He took our defenses best shot, and came out with the win. He went toe to toe in his first meeting, with a Belichick defense playing at its highest level. That should have gotten our respect right there.

Loss of Jody Nelson exposes Aaron Rogers:

Hall of Fame Poster

Administrator

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Burn it all down!

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Degeneracy Expert

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Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

Eff you, Shula

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

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