The Potential Ascensions of Christopher Harper and James White

...at worst their play frees up 2 openings on the 53

White is no Dion Lewis. Everyone here knows that. But can White be a good option in the pass catching game? Jury is still out but he has shown things. Personally I think they need to use him a lot more. If he is not on the field for 30 snaps and doesn't get at least 6-7 Targets this week i will really question the game plan. Particularly with Amendola out he needs to be your 3rd option.

Harper and Martin... IDK One of them obviously needs to step up and I could see it being either one. I think Harper makes more sense for this game as against these CBs you really need to run good routes. I think we will really need both.

Gronk is gonna see 2 guys all game and Talib by himself can probably take away Lafell. That means the 2 top options will not be options most of the game. They are going to force us to beat them with White. Harper and Martin. How we fix that is giving Brady tons of to time., running well and good D.

Off The Grid said:

Harper is weak at the CatchPoint, but runs his Routes well and is smooth and sharp out'f'is Cuts.

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Tony2046 said:

Not sure what you meant by this. I may be wrong but I think Harper has shown good hands and has a couple of nice catches in traffic. Still too early to tell but I am definitely looking forward to seeing what he can do.

Good post Grid.

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I'm basing that on College Tape. But I certainly agree that he looked far, far better during Summer Camp.

Strong he is not, but half his Problem was Focus, and that's something that of course can be learned.

And his Timing & Trajectory in Transition has been a Strength all along, I believe.

Hopefully Harper can step in and do well, similar to Edelman in 2009 as a rookie

PatsWickedPissah said:

Count me in with the newbies Grid, especially with my bink HAApaah! but I disagree about losing Vereen as a huge mistake. In fact I don't think it was a mistake at all. Remember who replaced him the 1st half of the season. That was an upgrade, especially running up the middle. Even I could hand tackle Vereen. Plus, his cap hit with the cap being tighter than a Scotsman's...but I digress.

Vereen will always be a big time Patriot hero to me with his post season & SB play.

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I consider it criminal to fail to account for Top Shelf Depth at SpeedBack, a vital Position rife with Injuries.

And it is precisely the failure to account for that which has caused the huge Vacuum we're now faced with. Everyone agrees that our Offense is far less dangerous without a player of Lewis's dynamic Impact, a Vacuum that could very possibly cost us a close Game in January and thus, ultimately, the Championship.

Surely you remember how dramatically our Offense slowed down when Vereen missed an huge chunk of 2013, because we'd foolishly let Uncanny Danny WoodHead go, beforehand?

And as I'm sure you remember: Nobody saw Lewis coming.

When Vereen left, he left a Vacuum.

A Vacuum...that has returned.

And yet you don't consider allowing such dynamic Talent at such a crucial Position go a Mistake??

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, my friend.

* I will append this, though: At $4.25 a Year, even I would've had to've thought about it. But I'm of the opinion that we could've got'm for far far less if we'd wrapped'm up a Year before, as I'd counseled.

Off The Grid said:

I consider it criminal to fail to account for Top Shelf Depth at SpeedBack, a vital Position rife with Injuries.

And it is precisely the failure to account for that which has caused the huge Vacuum we're now faced with. Everyone agrees that our Offense is far less dangerous without a player of Lewis's dynamic Impact, a Vacuum that could very possibly cost us a close Game in January and thus, ultimately, the Championship.

Surely you remember how dramatically our Offense slowed down when Vereen missed an huge chunk of 2013, because we'd foolishly let Uncanny Danny WoodHead go, beforehand?

And as I'm sure you remember: Nobody saw Lewis coming.

When Vereen left, he left a Vacuum.

A Vacuum...that has returned.

And yet you don't consider allowing such dynamic Talent at such a crucial Position go a Mistake??

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, my friend.

* I will append this, though: At $4.25 a Year, even I would've had to've thought about it. But I'm of the opinion that we could've got'm for far far less if we'd wrapped'm up a Year before, as I'd counseled.

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So the Pats should have signed two Lewises? Actually while they're at it, it'd be great if they signed another Gronk too.

Off The Grid said:

A Vacuum...that has returned.

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Except that White gave just as much this past week as Vereen averaged after the bye last year. And, even after Lewis' extension, they have both of them signed for about of what Shane costs per year.

Letting Vereen walk was the right decision at the time, and still is despite the injuries.

Off The Grid said:

I consider it criminal to fail to account for Top Shelf Depth at SpeedBack, a vital Position rife with Injuries.

And it is precisely the failure to account for that which has caused the huge Vacuum we're now faced with. Everyone agrees that our Offense is far less dangerous without a player of Lewis's dynamic Impact, a Vacuum that could very possibly cost us a close Game in January and thus, ultimately, the Championship.

Surely you remember how dramatically our Offense slowed down when Vereen missed an huge chunk of 2013, because we'd foolishly let Uncanny Danny WoodHead go, beforehand?

And as I'm sure you remember: Nobody saw Lewis coming.

When Vereen left, he left a Vacuum.

A Vacuum...that has returned.

And yet you don't consider allowing such dynamic Talent at such a crucial Position go a Mistake??

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, my friend.

* I will append this, though: At $4.25 a Year, even I would've had to've thought about it. But I'm of the opinion that we could've got'm for far far less if we'd wrapped'm up a Year before, as I'd counseled.

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oldrover said:

So the Pats should have signed two Lewises? Actually while they're at it, it'd be great if they signed another Gronk too.

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Nobody had the faintest Idea what Lewis was capable of 8 months ago, and when we'd let WoodHead go and then lost Vereen to Injury in 2013 the Offense slowed significantly and then exploded when Vereen came back, and's now slowed significantly again because we have no Depth at SpeedBack...But, no: You're right. Who could've possibly foreseen that Players sometimes get injured, and that it might behoove us to keep our best established SpeedBack around, because of course everyone knew that Lewis, who hadn't gained a Yard since 2012, was suddenly going to develop into the Beast he became this Season.

Yeah, our Offense hasn't suddenly slowed down dramatically since we lost Lewis in Week 9, or anything. Going into the Season without a proven Top Shelf SpeedBack was a brilliant Idea.

Oswlek said:

Except that White gave just as much this past week as Vereen averaged after the bye last year. And, even after Lewis' extension, they have both of them signed for about of what Shane costs per year.

Letting Vereen walk was the right decision at the time, and still is despite the injuries.

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When Vereen was actually used, he was excellent, as the Record clearly illustrates. And he brought a dynamic and unpredictable Pass/Run Threat that dramatically opened up the Offense for everyone.

Letting him go was an huge Mistake which we are now feeling the predictable Effects of.

And if we'd extended'm a Year earlier as I'd suggested, he would've cost far, far less.

He, EdelPerson, and Kong were pretty much our entire Offense, the second half of 2013.

It seems beyond bizarre to compare his Contract to that of Lewis and White: That's your Argument?

That we shouldn't pay for good Players at crucial Positions?

That it was smart to rely on White, who is clearly a Reserve Talent?

That it was smart to rely on Lewis, who hadn't gained a Yard since 2012???

Are you really going to argue that the loss of Lewis, without someone of Vereen's proven Caliber to replace him ~ or take over full time Duties, had they both been around as I'd've wished ~ hasn't had a more crippling Effect on our Offense than any of the other Injuries? And that not having more than one genuinely talented guy to play a Position ~ SpeedBack ~ that is historically rife with Injuries was the right thing to do???

Yeah.

You and I will definitely have to agree to disagree on that one.

What constitutes a good night for a rookie(Harper) going against the number 1 D on the road at 1 of the toughest places to play in the NFL with some really good corners and potentially bad weather?.....

BobDigital said:

White is no Dion Lewis. Everyone here knows that. But can White be a good option in the pass catching game? Jury is still out but he has shown things. Personally I think they need to use him a lot more. If he is not on the field for 30 snaps and doesn't get at least 6-7 Targets this week i will really question the game plan. Particularly with Amendola out he needs to be your 3rd option.

Harper and Martin... IDK One of them obviously needs to step up and I could see it being either one. I think Harper makes more sense for this game as against these CBs you really need to run good routes. I think we will really need both.

Gronk is gonna see 2 guys all game and Talib by himself can probably take away Lafell. That means the 2 top options will not be options most of the game. They are going to force us to beat them with White. Harper and Martin. How we fix that is giving Brady tons of to time., running well and good D.

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Keshawn Martin has not done much since getting traded to the Patriots. Still unsure why Patriots did the trade.

zipster9 said:

Keshawn Martin has not done much since getting traded to the Patriots. Still unsure why Patriots did the trade.

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Not true.

He was very useful until he got hurt.

He contributed in the first full week, including a touch down pass from Brady.

fxkane said:

Yeah, White has to be a large part of tomorrow's game plan. And I wonder if Jackie Slater will be out there for a few plays (he always seems to make a either a big or a long play in the few chances he's gotten over his long career)

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Slater has 1 catch on 7 targets over eight years.

Froob said:

Not so sure Jackie will hold up well at 61 but guess it's worth a shot.

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There's gonna be an arm wrestling contest between he and Cannon for that jersey number.

Off The Grid said:

I consider it criminal to fail to account for Top Shelf Depth at SpeedBack, a vital Position rife with Injuries.

And it is precisely the failure to account for that which has caused the huge Vacuum we're now faced with. Everyone agrees that our Offense is far less dangerous without a player of Lewis's dynamic Impact, a Vacuum that could very possibly cost us a close Game in January and thus, ultimately, the Championship.

Surely you remember how dramatically our Offense slowed down when Vereen missed an huge chunk of 2013, because we'd foolishly let Uncanny Danny WoodHead go, beforehand?

And as I'm sure you remember: Nobody saw Lewis coming.

When Vereen left, he left a Vacuum.

A Vacuum...that has returned.

And yet you don't consider allowing such dynamic Talent at such a crucial Position go a Mistake??

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, my friend.

* I will append this, though: At $4.25 a Year, even I would've had to've thought about it. But I'm of the opinion that we could've got'm for far far less if we'd wrapped'm up a Year before, as I'd counseled.

Click to expand...

I always felt that out of all the players we lost last year Vereen was the most crucial. Didn't have a second thought about Revis and Browner. Vereen was clutch in the playoffs and saved our but in the SB with crucial 3rd down catches. I think the plan was always to replace him with one of White, Lewis, Cadet, etc. Cadet got injured so we never got to see him and then let go probably after seeing Lewis production. I think and hope that White will pick up where Lewis left off. Even if he is 75% Lewis, I'll take it.

It's not me who disagees with you, Grid, it's the evidence. For less than NY is paying just Vereen, the Patriots upgraded his position, have a comparable talent as a backup and even have an emergency option in Bolden. Letting Shane go was a no-brainer. Hell, considering NE's cap situation, letting him go was the right decision even before anyone knew what the team had in Lewis.

I find it odd that you chide the team for relying on second year White to be the backup when he filled that role last year as a rookie. Sure they got a little lucky with Shane's health and sure James may not have been ready, but thinking he may mature a little heading into his second year isn't that much to ask, no?

I don't think the "he performed when asked to" narrative holds much water. Shane was here long enough to demonstrate a reliable production baseline of 2-6 catches for 15-50 yards and 2-5 rushes for 5-30. Games outside that range were anomalies.

White may not have an 11 catch outburst in him, but in the three games he's been thrust into the spotlight, James has given similar production to what Vereen averaged after the bye last year. The idea that the drop off from Shane to White is as big a problem as the absence of Edelman or even Amendola is pure hogwash.

Oswlek said:

The idea that the drop off from Shane to White is as big a problem as the absence of Edelman or even Amendola is pure hogwash.

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Not meaning to pile on OTG, but I agree with you here. I've always said that the 2 players that were easiest to predict leaving this offseason were Ayers and Vereen. There was no way Belichick was going to pay either one of those role players the kind of money that they'd bring in from an outside team.

In Vereen's case, the fact that we used him successfully against teams with tough defensive fronts (DET and SEA), combined with our fourth quarter SB deficit helped increase his market value. The resurgence of the RB market in general helped his cause. Very few felt that he'd be retained at 3m per season, let alone 4.25m.

Where OTG has an excellent point would've been trying to lock up Vereen last season, but unfortunately that didn't happen. I was actually pleasantly surprised to have seen Lewis and Belichick agree on compensation earlier this season, and perhaps OTG is onto something in terms of BB not wanting to risk making the same mistake twice.

never seen so much hype for a practice squad player.
here's hoping harper has 100 yards and a TD

Off The Grid said:

Letting him go was an huge Mistake which we are now feeling the predictable Effects of.

And if we'd extended'm a Year earlier as I'd suggested, he would've cost far, far less.

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HOLY hindsight.

Lewis over Vereen was 100% the correct choice. Not even debatable, you are only calling it a mistake because Lewis is injured.

As for extending him a year earlier, going out on quite a limb making the assumption that the Pats didn't try to leverage Vereen being injured for half the year in '13 to take a team friendly deal. Which his agent David Dunn, same David Dunn that has bad blood with the Pats over the Welker thing could have given him the advice to bet on himself in 2014 and go to Free Agency.


I mean why not just talk about how Pats should have re-signed Danny Woodhead after '12 given that up to that point Vereen was basically James White even though he had 2 years in the offense and White has only had 1.

zipster9 said:

Keshawn Martin has not done much since getting traded to the Patriots. Still unsure why Patriots did the trade.

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They got a young prospect with solid measurables at a position of need for virtually nothing. I disagree that he hasn't done much; Martin was well on his way to locking up the 3rd WR spot before getting hurt, IMO.