Running clock on final play was the incorrect call (merged)

QuantumMechanic · Nov 27, 2015

All your massive overthinking of this can be easily resolved by realizing that "advance" functionally means "purposefully move the ball in a direction I intend", which is consistent with decades of how games are actually called.

Given your interpretation, if a player caught a ball and fell untouched, saw defenders coming at him, got up and then went sideways or backwards to attempt to avoid them, the play should be whistled dead. Since that demonstrably does not happen, your interpretation of "advance" is clearly wrong now and in the past.

Deus Irae · Nov 27, 2015

Ken Canin said:
On another note, if anyone has the full Blandino interview transcript where he argues the clock should have been stopped, I would be interested. I only read excerpts, e.g. at NFL admits officials mishandled final two seconds of Bills-Patriots - CBSSports.com , but those excerpts to my eye do not seem coherent.

Blandino says in the excerpt: "A player can certainly give himself up - a runner going to the ground and making no attempt to advance - but you certainly want to give that player the opportunity to get out of bounds, especially inside of two minutes."

It sounds like Blandino (based, again, on this excerpt) is arguing that a different rule should apply inside the two minute warning, which can't be right. Perhaps there is more analysis.

Even if Blandino's analysis is correct, it would be desirable to get some specific, coherent explanation of exactly why it is correct, which surely even those who agree with Blandino would also agree that the excerpt quoted does not provide.

Your argument is getting lamer by the post. You were wrong. Let it go.

brdmaverick · Nov 27, 2015

When I started this post my intention was to say that the clock running was the correct call, but perhaps not for the reason that the ref later decided.

Can we all agree that the clock is supposed to continue running if a player does not go out of bounds with forward momentum (sure, I've seen the clock stoppage granted when a player goes out sideways, but NOT when he goes out while losing yardage)?

If needed I can show other examples of this being enforced this way.

I think the ref could have gotten himself out of a tough situation by using THAT as his explanation as opposed to the player 'giving himself up'. Even I can't stand by the ref's claim that he was giving himself up.

Bobsyouruncle · Nov 27, 2015

brdmaverick said:
When I started this post my intention was to say that the clock running was the correct call, but perhaps not for the reason that the ref later decided.

Can we all agree that the clock is supposed to continue running if a player does not go out of bounds with forward momentum (sure, I've seen the clock stoppage granted when a player goes out sideways, but NOT when he goes out while losing yardage)?

If needed I can show other examples of this being enforced this way.

I think the ref could have gotten himself out of a tough situation by using THAT as his explanation as opposed to the player 'giving himself up'. Even I can't stand by the ref's claim that he was giving himself up.

I can't agree to that without seeing examples.

Patsrock · Nov 27, 2015

Simple the refs screwed up and if this happened to the Pats I would be pissed. Clock should have stopped. There is no gray area or anything. It was a screw up plain and simple.

Deus Irae · Nov 27, 2015

brdmaverick said:
Can we all agree that the clock is supposed to continue running if a player does not go out of bounds with forward momentum (sure, I've seen the clock stoppage granted when a player goes out sideways, but NOT when he goes out while losing yardage)?

No, because that's incorrect.

XLIX · Nov 27, 2015

Ken Canin said:
It sounds like Blandino (based, again, on this excerpt) is arguing that a different rule should apply inside the two minute warning, which can't be right. Perhaps there is more analysis.

There are plenty of rules which change inside the 2:00 warning. That aside, the official explanation is that a player giving himself up is clearly a judgment call, heavily dependent on the situation. If Buffalo is winning by 5 with 90 seconds to go, trying to kill the clock, then sure, Watkins is probably giving himself up in the field of play.

But the situation makes the call even more unfathomable. They're trailing by 7, 2 seconds left, near midfield, and desperate for one final heave into the end zone. Watkins is clearly not trying to give himself up, but rather trying to get out of bounds.

Ken Canin said:
Even if Blandino's analysis is correct, it would be desirable to get some specific, coherent explanation of exactly why it is correct, which surely even those who agree with Blandino would also agree that the excerpt quoted does not provide.

There have been no fewer than 4 rules experts (including those in the league and those working for networks) that have given specific, coherent explanations of why stopping the clock was the correct call.

Oswlek · Nov 27, 2015

brdmaverick said:
Can we all agree that the clock is supposed to continue running if a player does not go out of bounds with forward momentum (sure, I've seen the clock stoppage granted when a player goes out sideways, but NOT when he goes out while losing yardage)?

Not in the NFL it doesn't. That's an NCAA rule.

XLIX · Nov 27, 2015

brdmaverick said:
Can we all agree that the clock is supposed to continue running if a player does not go out of bounds with forward momentum (sure, I've seen the clock stoppage granted when a player goes out sideways, but NOT when he goes out while losing yardage)?

That statement only holds when a player is being tackled or otherwise driven out of bounds by the defense. The whole point of this situation is that no New England player touched Watkins, therefore the play isn't over until Watkins is out of bounds. All rules relating to forward progress do not apply when the ball carrier goes backwards (or sideways) under his own power.

brdmaverick · Nov 27, 2015

I'll dig up some better examples (that don't include penalties), but check this out......

For those with NFL game pass. Check out 0:33 left in the 2nd qtr of this years Pats/Colts game. Edelman catches a pass, runs forward, gets hit, and then decides to go out of bounds (but does it by moving away from the goal line). You can see that the REF motions for the clock to continue (the only reason it did not is b/c of a penalty on the play).

XLIX · Nov 27, 2015

brdmaverick said:
I'll dig up some better examples (that don't include penalties), but check this out......

For those with NFL game pass. Check out 0:33 left in the 2nd qtr of this years Pats/Colts game. Edelman catches a pass, runs forward, gets hit, and then decides to go out of bounds (but does it by moving away from the goal line). You can see that the REF motions for the clock to continue (the only reason it did not is b/c of a penalty on the play).

There's the key difference between the Watkins play and the one you describe above.

brdmaverick · Nov 27, 2015

Here's another one for those that have NFL game pass.......

2013
Chargers vs. Bengals
0:28 before Gresham catches the pass but goes out of bounds backwards. The ref rules a running clock and the announcer makes the comments of "b/c he didn't go forward with the catch"

I know the announcer isn't an 'end all be all' but it just goes to show that it is 'a thing'.

brdmaverick · Nov 27, 2015

possibly, I'll look into it some more

my gut tells me that wouldn't make a difference but I'll concede it could so let me look into it some more

brdmaverick · Nov 27, 2015

After further thought, that makes sense. I'll concede. You have convinced me.

Running clock on final play was the incorrect call (merged)

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