Malcolm Butler

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
No he doesn't. He is an above average corner at this point. He has a ways to go to be a probowl corner.

Chris Sims ranked him as the 5th best CB in the NFL.

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

Mehta: Revis starting to show cracks vs. NFL's top receivers

While Butler rises Revis is slipping...

n6249c · Nov 19, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
No he doesn't. He is an above average corner at this point. He has a ways to go to be a probowl corner.

Disagree. His play against Beckham was as good as it gets, with the exception of that first pass. Even Pro Bowl corners aren't perfect. Other than that Butler was close to perfect. Not just the numbers, look at how he played. Beckham caught three total against Butler, including that first ball; Butler knocked down three other passes and stayed in Beckham's hip pocket through some good moves. When Beckham made his catches against Butler the tackling was great, immediate and vicious. Go watch the NFL Films clip of their battle (link early in this thread).

Agreed that Butler needs to compile a larger body of work, but he's grown since week one and is now at an elite level. As long as he does not regress he is at a Pro Bowl level now. So far his arc continues on an upward path, there's no reason to expect him to start slacking off now.

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
Chris Sims ranked him as the 5th best CB in the NFL.

My dog would give better ratings than Chris Simms

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
My dog would give better ratings than Chris Simms

You should give him/her a podcast it would be a big hit...

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

n6249c said:
Disagree. His play against Beckham was as good as it gets, with the exception of that first pass. Even Pro Bowl corners aren't perfect. Other than that Butler was close to perfect. Not just the numbers, look at how he played. Beckham caught three total against Butler, including that first ball; Butler knocked down three other passes and stayed in Beckham's hip pocket through some good moves. When Beckham made his catches against Butler the tackling was great, immediate and vicious. Go watch the NFL Films clip of their battle (link early in this thread).

Agreed that Butler needs to compile a larger body of work, but he's grown since week one and is now at an elite level. As long as he does not regress he is at a Pro Bowl level now. So far his arc continues on an upward path, there's no reason to expect him to start slacking off now.

I understand fans overrate players on their own team, so I know where this is coming from, but pro bowl corners don't need 'except that one play' making allowing over 100 yards a great day.
Look he's player pretty well all year. He still makes mistakes that are probably due to inexperience and he does get beaten more than an elite corner does. As I said he is above average but this probowl level talk is going to far.

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
You should give him/her a podcast it would be a big hit...

What does Chris Simms, top 5 and Tom Brady have in common?

ivanvamp · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
Mehta: Revis starting to show cracks vs. NFL's top receivers

While Butler rises Revis is slipping...

It's an interesting question, whether, right now, you'd rather have Revis and his contract or Butler and his contract. I still think Revis is better than Butler at this moment, but the trends are indeed moving in opposite directions. Don't know when Butler will pass Revis. Maybe not for a while. Maybe soon. But the difference in contract is enormous.

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
I understand fans overrate players on their own team, so I know where this is coming from, but pro bowl corners don't need 'except that one play' making allowing over 100 yards a great day.
Look he's player pretty well all year. He still makes mistakes that are probably due to inexperience and he does get beaten more than an elite corner does. As I said he is above average but this probowl level talk is going to far.

The play by Beckham was a great catch on a great throw, Butler had good coverage and he had safety help. Revis would not have stopped that play either. It was just a catch you tip your cap on. The issue that they let it go the distance when it should have been a 30 yard reception.

n6249c · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
The play by Beckham was a great catch on a great throw, Butler had good coverage and he had safety help. Revis would not have stopped that play either. It was just a catch you tip your cap on. The issue that they let it go the distance when it should have been a 30 yard reception.

Yes, and that does happen to Revis and every other CB as well.

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

ivanvamp said:
It's an interesting question, whether, right now, you'd rather have Revis and his contract or Butler and his contract. I still think Revis is better than Butler at this moment, but the trends are indeed moving in opposite directions. Don't know when Butler will pass Revis. Maybe not for a while. Maybe soon. But the difference in contract is enormous.

It's likely nobody will ever be better than Revis of 2009-2011 but the Revis since his knee injury is not head and shoulders above the rest. Revis is better than Butler today but I don't know if that will be true by the end of this season or next season.

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
The play by Beckham was a great catch on a great throw, Butler had good coverage and he had safety help. Revis would not have stopped that play either. It was just a catch you tip your cap on. The issue that they let it go the distance when it should have been a 30 yard reception.

OK, if you think Butler had good coverage on that play then I understand why you are confused.
How many 30+ passes up the sideline have you seen Revis allow?
How many times has Revis allowed 80 yard TDs but it was OK because he has safety help, so it wasn't his fault?

So exactly what was the defensive call that tells you McCourty was help, and not just that he reacted to the throw and left his assignment? Who gave you this inside info?

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

n6249c said:
Yes, and that does happen to Revis and every other CB as well.

Yup I think it's one of the only reasons Ted Ginn has a job...

Brady6 · Nov 19, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
OK, if you think Butler had good coverage on that play then I understand why you are confused.
How many 30+ passes up the sideline have you seen Revis allow?
How many times has Revis allowed 80 yard TDs but it was OK because he has safety help, so it wasn't his fault?

So exactly what was the defensive call that tells you McCourty was help, and not just that he reacted to the throw and left his assignment? Who gave you this inside info?

Nelson beat Revis last season on a very similar play where McCourty had the coverage over the top.

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
Yup I think it's one of the only reasons Ted Ginn has a job...

Not to say Revis is perfect, but these are bad examples. the first looks like zone coverage, the second is cover2 and Revis isn't responsible for the zone.

JMC00 · Nov 19, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
OK, if you think Butler had good coverage on that play then I understand why you are confused.
How many 30+ passes up the sideline have you seen Revis allow?
How many times has Revis allowed 80 yard TDs but it was OK because he has safety help, so it wasn't his fault?

So exactly what was the defensive call that tells you McCourty was help, and not just that he reacted to the throw and left his assignment? Who gave you this inside info?

Really not a fan of Butler are you?

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
Nelson beat Revis last season on a very similar play where McCourty had the coverage over the top.

Not true. Nelson beat Revis on a slant and took it to the house.
But who cares. What does a play Revis made or didn't have to do with Butlers coverage on that play?
You brought Revis in to this by saying he wouldn't have stopped that play which is a ridiculous statement that you have no way to back up.

Watch the play. Butler was beaten within 12 yards of the los, and it was really a routine route, throw and catch. McCourty took a bad angle that prevented him from making the tackle but that has nothing to do with Butlers poor job on the play.

n6249c · Nov 19, 2015

Brady6 said:
The play by Beckham was a great catch on a great throw, Butler had good coverage and he had safety help. Revis would not have stopped that play either. It was just a catch you tip your cap on. The issue that they let it go the distance when it should have been a 30 yard reception.

I thought it was actually not a great throw, off target low and inside IIRC. That was a lot of what made it work out the way it did, Beckham's adjustment to make the catch turned him into open space and left McCourty throwing an inadvertent block on Butler.

Ring 6 · Nov 19, 2015

JMC00 said:
Really not a fan of Butler are you?

I am a fan of Butler. I'm not a fan of "everyone is the greatest because they are on our team so I will overrate them and ignore their flaws"

JPPT1974 · Nov 19, 2015

Butler is trying to prove he is no one hit wonder.

Malcolm Butler

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In the Starting Line-Up

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May Day 2024!

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