I have no doubt refs have been instructed to make it hard for Gronk

JMC00 said:

gtfo here with that **** All O-Lines hold, it's the job of the bills $250m D-Line to beat holds.

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you're counter point, to the ref's not calling the holding.... is that all teams hold.... which means it is indeed up the subjectivity of the refs in that case. furthermore, the dollar value of the other teams defensive line suggests they should be able to overcome the holding... and the referees approval of it when brady is releasing the ball in <2 seconds.

i'd argue the holding was irrelevant because brady was releasing the ball in less than 2 seconds and the bills needed to defend that by negating the pick plays which are also illegal and not called, but you'll probably argue everyone does pick plays, so you win except that the refs are a factor.

I don't think the bills could've defended the execution on the quick plays without jumping the routes and that sort of risk...... but the bills coach was too busy being mad about getting schooled to adjust.

The Patriots are called for few penalties because they have the greatest coach in the game today, by far.

One of his main points of emphasis is to teach proper blocking and tackling techniques.

The Buffalo Bills, and any team coached by Rex Ryan, are called for more penalties than most teams because they are poorly coached and encouraged to be aggressive beyond what the rules of the game allow.

This isn't hard, if you have a brain.

Pick plays are illegal, rub plays are not. You cannot take out a defender by setting a pick like a basketball player does (except within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage, where it is legal). As a receiver, you can run a route through traffic and make the defense decide whether they want to switch or not. It's been part of the game FOREVER and a component of mid-field crossing patterns FOREVER.

ivanvamp said:

I don't think Butler has ever been called for OPI. ;-)

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Just wait. They'll change the rules.

patchick said:

On OPI, I think the problem is that he's so big and strong that the little things most receivers do are simply more obvious with him. When Gronk pushes off against a DB, the DB stays pushed.

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And the alternative too. In the gif above 2 guys slam into him - your typical WR, though probably harder to jam, would simply be knocked to the ground and out of the play entirely if that happened to them. The same action against Gronk just doesn't draw the call. As for why it's not illegal contact 5+ yards downfield is mysterious.

Seems to me the worse refs in the NFL are still calling lots of DPI and the better ones are happy to just call the 5 yard illegal downfield contact or holding. They pointed this out on SNF I think.

Billsfanonapatsforum said:

Thankfully you're owner has no clout with the referee's because he had no important role in ending their grievances and their lockout, it was instead a cheese company named Kraft and not the business venture man in lumber that ACTUALLY restored order in the league. Watch out for those glass houses. Robert Kraft Played Important Role In Ending NFL Referee Lockout

The holding committed by the New England offensive line... in general vs bills game 1 was as offensive as Rex stating he wants to build a bully in a league with anti-bullying commercials.

edit... you guys missed the sarcasm/joke. I live in New England, I know Robert Kraft has nothing to do with Cheese, he's in lumber and other ventures geeze... look at the joke there, it's a joke.... I'm inferring that it wasn't Pats owner Robert Kraft involved with resolving the stand-off instead IT WAS THE CHEESE COMPANY......... comprehend now?

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Holy ****!!! It's Uncle Meat!!! Welcome back!!!

Froob said:

It does seem like the Pats get called for far more OPI than any team in the league. 2013 Broncos would have been only like a top 10 offense if they had been called like the Patriots do. Ignoring any sort of league "integrity" issues Gronk faces the Shaq/LeBron problem of being so big and strong that he can absorb a lot of contact and it doesn't look that much. Although that particular play was an easy call.

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The NFL refs don't call OPI on the Broncos or Packers because the "perception" out there is "they" do it well. Where as the Pats don't do it well and are the "whipping boy" for this point of emphasis. So, even when the Pats run a crossing pattern no different than the Broncos and it results in a big gain, the flag will come out. The refs in the NFL now are like NBA refs. Infractions and teams carry a "reputation" with them and refs, like sheep cater to that bias. Smaller defenders "flop" when Gronk comes out of their clinch. You can make money predicting the next make-up call in a game. That's usually the default call for holding. Instead of moderating the game, they "negotiate" the outcome.

I.M. Fletcher said:

Gronk reminds me so much of Chara these days.

When he used to play for ottawa, the colour commentator would famously say " two minutes for being bigger"

What gronk is doing is no different than any other receiver, but due to his size, the amount of advantage gained is so much greater.

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Is Gronk really that much bigger than other tight ends. I don't think so. His advantage is the same as any other tight end, that is, being big. His other advantage is his pass catching abilities.

363839 said:

Is Gronk really that much bigger than other tight ends. I don't think so. His advantage is the same as any other tight end, that is, being big. His other advantage is his pass catching abilities.

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The point is, he is getting called for these penalties mostly as he is splitting out wide or in the slot. When he does that, he is the biggest, baddest receiver the league has seen.

I.M. Fletcher said:

The point is, he is getting called for these penalties mostly as he is splitting out wide or in the slot. When he does that, he is the biggest, baddest receiver the league has seen.

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Yeah I forget about his speed.

In a way, this is a good thing. More CBs going high instead of at his knees because, um, give me a minute...

Billsfanonapatsforum said:

Thankfully you're owner has no clout with the referee's because he had no important role in ending their grievances and their lockout, it was instead a cheese company named Kraft and not the business venture man in lumber that ACTUALLY restored order in the league. Watch out for those glass houses. Robert Kraft Played Important Role In Ending NFL Referee Lockout

The holding committed by the New England offensive line... in general vs bills game 1 was as offensive as Rex stating he wants to build a bully in a league with anti-bullying commercials.

edit... you guys missed the sarcasm/joke. I live in New England, I know Robert Kraft has nothing to do with Cheese, he's in lumber and other ventures geeze... look at the joke there, it's a joke.... I'm inferring that it wasn't Pats owner Robert Kraft involved with resolving the stand-off instead IT WAS THE CHEESE COMPANY......... comprehend now?

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I do not know why I'm bothering, but We are discussing Pass Interference and you bring up o-line holding? Um, dude that's like if we are talking apple pie recipes and you call us out for ignoring peach cobbler. We are not as stupid as either you think or as you are.

lurker1965 said:

I do not know why I'm bothering, butView attachment 11325 We are discussing Pass Interference and you bring up o-line holding? Um, dude that's like if we are talking apple pie recipes and you call us out for ignoring peach cobbler. We are not as stupid as either you think or as you are.

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Ah, ok, I didn't realize the refs were only responsible for pas interference, as if you're not talking about the referees and their calls... my bad, this is ONLY about PI yet the topic says the "the refs have been instructed to........" it doesn't matter what they are being instructed to do, a referee is involved therefore all comments about referees are relevant, except in this topic apparently now. To your point, both of those food items are deserts.

The argument is that the ref's are being told what to do....... and I concur just in a different part of their application of their job. I didn't say geeze this guy hates the referees and he should based on his position...

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition

the original argument is the referees are being told what to do, how is my position a strawman at all?

Billsfanonapatsforum said:

Ah, ok, I didn't realize the refs were only responsible for pas interference, as if you're not talking about the referees and their calls... my bad, this is ONLY about PI yet the topic says the "the refs have been instructed to........" it doesn't matter what they are being instructed to do, a referee is involved therefore all comments about referees are relevant except in this topic. To your point, both of those food items are deserts.

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Um, if the first post is about PI and OPI of little guys on big guys, and about ten posts follow suit, maybe one can figure out the topic that ended with ellipses. (Those "..." are called ellipses.)
Yup, if 10 previous people are discussing apple pie recipes then obviously berating them for ignoring peach cobbler makes perfect sense because it is a dessert.

You know that if one can ruin your position by agreeing with it the point is not very strong, right?

lurker1965 said:

Um, if the first post is about PI and OPI of little guys on big guys, and about ten posts follow suit, maybe one can figure out the topic that ended with ellipses. (Those "..." are called ellipses.)

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so this isn't about the ref's being told what to do, maybe I read the title wrong. Telling the ref's to not call OPI and not call OFH are not related at all. 2 different sets of officiating crews do that...... yes, thats it.

Reread my post. I was editing as you responded.

Billsfanonapatsforum said:

so this isn't about the ref's being told what to do, maybe I read the title wrong. Telling the ref's to not call OPI and not call OFH are not related at all. 2 different sets of officiating crews do that...... yes, thats it.

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lurker1965 said:

Reread my post. I was editing as you responded.

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agree to disagree... all is well.