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The officiating


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The little guy refs identify with the WRs more than the big guys. It's the same reason that linemen don't get the same protection against blocks below the waist from the competition committee that open-field players do.



If they were in the bag, Hochuli would have ruled ODB's catch a TD. They are trying to do a difficult job while keeping up with elite athletes without even the benefit of regular practice.
He did rule it a catch. It was within the last two minutes, so upstairs reviewed it.
 
Also, imagine if that Beckham play was called against Edelman or Gronk, and we lost that game. It would be the subject of 10 threads here at Patsfans. To be honest, thrilled with the result of that play and Butler's strip on that play, but how is that different then a RB diving, breaking the plain, and then the ball being knocked out of his hands, it ALWAYS results in a TD. Still happy with the reversal, but I can understand Giant's fans anger.

The rule is the same in both cases. Once a player is in the endzone with possession it's a TD and the ball is dead.

In your example the RB already had possession before he broke the plane of the endzone and so the instant he broke the plane he was in the endzone with possession and the play is a TD and the ball is dead.

Beckham never had possession in the endzone, so no TD.
 
Hate to say it, so did Beckham. But glad the call was reversed.

No, he didn't. Everywhere on the field, including in the endzone, a receiver must control the ball long enough to be considered a runner (that's the current re-wording of the previous "football move" language). You might not like the rule, but that's the rule, and they got it right on replay.
 
Also, imagine if that Beckham play was called against Edelman or Gronk, and we lost that game. It would be the subject of 10 threads here at Patsfans. To be honest, thrilled with the result of that play and Butler's strip on that play, but how is that different then a RB diving, breaking the plain, and then the ball being knocked out of his hands, it ALWAYS results in a TD. Still happy with the reversal, but I can understand Giant's fans anger.

It was clearly an incomplete pass under the current rules.
 
He did rule it a catch. It was within the last two minutes, so upstairs reviewed it.

My understanding is that all reviews are performed by the Referee, but that the replay officials provide input to the Referee regarding camera angles and what to look for, regardless of when it occurred in the game or for what reason a play is being reviewed. Did I miss something a rules change in the last couple years?
 
No, he didn't. Everywhere on the field, including in the endzone, a receiver must control the ball long enough to be considered a runner (that's the current re-wording of the previous "football move" language). You might not like the rule, but that's the rule, and they got it right on replay.

And a runner must run or cut or do something comparable of his own volition. That's certainly better terminology than making "a football move," because the quintessential football move for a receiver on a contested pass is getting his clock cleaned, and that doesn't count. :D
 
At times, it appeared they were letting them play, others, seems like they were throwing the flag for simply being in the area of the receiver.....

The thing that pissed me off the most was the crew was letting NYG hold our pass rush, to the point of choke holds around their necks with no flags at all. Then we get called on a TD for some BS holding call.
 
My understanding is that all reviews are performed by the Referee, but that the replay officials provide input to the Referee regarding camera angles and what to look for, regardless of when it occurred in the game or for what reason a play is being reviewed. Did I miss something a rules change in the last couple years?

For reviews that are automatically initiated (all turnovers, all scoring plays, everything in last 2 minutes) there is a 2-stage process. First "upstairs" looks at it. If the play is obviously correct they confirm it. If it is obviously incorrect or if it is close, they buzz down to the field and the field referee goes under the hood.
 
Pats 27
Midgets/Refs 26
 
Danger Zone's Rule Simplification.

A Pass is Considered Completed When
1. Receiver shows firm control of a pass for a count of 1 Mississippi
 
It was probably the worst officiated game I saw for a Patriots game. I've watched many other games and by what I saw how they were officiated, this game was reasonable called. The worst call was the phantom PI against Butler. Gronk gets mauled all over the field but heaven forbid that a Patriots player lay a finger on a Giant's receiver before he caught the ball.

As for the Beckham TD catch, it's sad that a NFL receiver doesn't know what makes a catch and neither did the officals. The Patriots knew it wasn't a catch because they are well coached. It's like the officials decided to call it a TD because if it was close enough on replay they wouldn't have to overturn it and could reward the Giants a TD. This was the first game this season that I thought there was a clear bias against the Patriots.

That being said, there are probably as many Giant's fans *****ing about the officiating as we are.
 
Seemed to me that a lot of the questionable penalties against the Pats were at very critical points (on a failed third down conversion that then gave the Giants a first down for example).

A lot of those were followed by equally questionable calls against the Giants on the very next play (Make up calls).

The problem is that giving the Giants 1st and 15 after you just have them a fresh set of downs doesn't make up for the first bad call.
 
I call shenanigans! :eek:

And call it what you will, but the fact that Goodell was there and the refs appeared to be doing everything they could to keep a decimated NEP team down...OK, I'll say it: GoodellGate! :mad:
 
Beckham should have had a TD so it all evened out in the end.

Right call but bad rule.

No way! The Pats should have put the game away, but got levied a bad penalty on Andrews...ended up giving the ball back to NYG, which led to their FG. Why does everyone gloss over this..as though it never happened? :rolleyes:

A team will not win many games trading bad calls for bad rules. o_O

That the NEP pulled this one out was incredible- against many odds -absolutely incredible! :D
 
At times, it appeared they were letting them play, others, seems like they were throwing the flag for simply being in the area of the receiver.....

I remember one post after another in the game thread with the words "refs" sandwiched in between the expletives. :eek:

Personally, I was still wondrin' if top Nazi, Roger Goodell, was signaling to the refs to stop the Pat's TD drive that would have put the game away. Funny how the focus shifted to the Beckham play...as though the Andrews penalty was as just as losing the #1 2016 draft pick & the #4 2017 draft pick. Was the common denominator Goodell? :confused:
 
The calls WERE bad on both teams. I remember one towards the end of the game when they called the Giants for illegal hands to the face, and when they showed the replay, it was the Pats player whose hands were in the face of the Giants player. I just figured it was a make-up call for one of the ridiculous calls on us. I was shocked when they overturned the Beckham non-TD, although when they show the replay in real time, it is a bang/bang play. What a relief that we got a break on that one.

-I disagree. The calls were not bad for both teams. One team had bad calls that had a material effect on the game, one had an instance of a bad call with a material a minimal material effect on the game. To call that game 'bad for both' is an equivocation along the lines of: a man getting a ***** slap and a man getting hit with a hammer are "two guys who both got equally hit".
- One team had multiple examples of selective enforcement that materially affected the game, one team did not have these calls and/or cause of material change.
-Yes that one call appeared to be a bad call on the Giants (like you, I said in the game day thread as it happened: "ahem, makeup call, ahem".
But if the call on Andrews was a good one ("classic holding" as another poster said), why would a make up be needed? And if it really was a makeup call then isn't that point blank evidence it was a bad call, phantom or selective? (fyi, it was marginal and it was also very selective enforcement. The Giants should have been flagged multiple times for murder on their OL if Andrews holding was a "good call". Btw, how many holding calls, ahem, on the Giants OL in this game???).

That my friend is the rub -- not just phantom calls but selective enforcement. Bottom line: you do not keep the flag in your pocket and let 'em play, then take it out for marginal calls that take points off the board or effect possession changes (especially late in the 4th quarter).

Consider the points/possession material affects for both teams:
Patriots:
--Penalty - Andrews Holding, takes 7 points off the board.
--Penalty - Butler phantom PI. Instead of 4th and long at the Patriots 41 (though they could go for a 57-58 yard FG) and a punt/possession change, it is 1st down Giants at the Patriots 21. (Virtually Guaranteed the Giants 3 points)
--Penalty - Chung's totally blatant PI because he didn't look back**, instead of 4th down and a certain punt/possession change, First down Giants around the Patriot 48 yard line.
**(a)Handfighting is not PI, (b)not looking back is not PI
--Penalty - Gronkowski OPI** - 3rd and 8 successfully gained replaced by 3rd and extremely long that is unsuccessfully gained (though not a direct effect on a possession change, about as close as it can be).
**Patriots 8th OPI of 2015(over 300% of league average). Number called against Patriots opponents = 1 (almost 200% below league average). Fyi, Next highest team in NFL for OPI = 4. League OPI calls Average = 2.4

Giants(2 examples):
1-The supposed 'make up call' already on 1st down. Instead of 1st and 11 for the Patriots, it is 1st and 6. Very little material effect.
2-Patriots at the Giants 4 yard line and it is 2nd down, PI on Giants. Instead of 2nd and 4 for the Patriots, it is 1st and 2 for the Patriots. Hardly a big material change, certainly a very long ways from a possession change, but an assist for sure.

Every team gets the bad/materially effecting crap calls at least one game a year. I hope this was the Patriots turn and it is over. I do not, per se, buy into conspiracy that Goodell being at his first Patriots game coincided with this steaming pile of Ref crap. Outside of OPI obviously being a point of emphasis for the Patriots -- unless we are an extreme outlier of our own doing and our opponents are a pillar of no OPI actions -- I haven't seen a season pattern of phantom calls and/or selective enforcement as of yet.
 
What about the one on Gronk?
It was a bad call because it was at 3 yards, but he totally ran right into the guy. At least there was contact there to draw a flag. Butler didn't touch Beckham at all. There was no contact at all.
 
--Penalty - Andrews Holding, takes 7 points off the board.
He tackled the guy. It was holding. The defender was nowhere near the ballcarrier, and Andrews didn't need to do it. Bad job by the rookie there.
 
He tackled the guy. It was holding. The defender was nowhere near the ballcarrier, and Andrews didn't need to do it. Bad job by the rookie there.
The defender he held was pretty damn close to Blount, reached out and touched his foot. Had Andrews not held him it's a possible TFL.
 
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