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Idle thoughts - Is it ever going to stop.......:mad:


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One more criticism of Blount: he completely whiffed in pass protection on the play that Brady fumbled the ball, letting his man shoot into the backfield, and then he stood around dumbfounded while his man turned-around chased brady and forced the fumble. A guy that size should stone a blitzer every time. If it's play action and the guy is running past you instead of hitting you, you need to hit him. That isn't very complicated, and when you are 265 pounds, you should be able to knock just about anyone off their stride in that situation.
 
Ken, I'm surprised you haven't hung Melvin out to dry. He had probably the worst game of his NFL career, yesterday- giving up key completions, getting beat easily over the middle, DPI, etc.
 
1. everyone would rather not have injuries......in this case, amendola gets to earn his paycheck an someone else gets a chance for brady to get comfortable with.....I'll take the win

2. giants have one of the better pass protecting OLs in the league.....the pass rush was OK considering the pats blitzed like twice the entire game

3. the tendency is to not account for scrubs....they put more into stopping the wrs

4. its called being tentative......the entire team appeared that way

5. This was the best offense that pats have played all year and in their house....freeny is a backup and has never been that good in coverage....when does the bostic era begin?

6. its called being tentative......the entire team appeared that way
 
Regarding the Andrews' holding penalty...did anyone here actually see Andrews' forearm wrapped AROUND the D lineman? From the one replay angle shown immediately after the play, all that was visible was Andrew's upper arm and he appeared, at least to me, to be using an elbows out technique to veer the D lineman to the side. And when the D lineman broke free, wouldn't you see Andrews' right shoulder get pushed back as the D lineman cleared past Andrews so called "wrapped" right arm.
My reaction to the replay was that the ref "assumed" a hold had occurred because Andrews' forearm was not visible.
Maybe I'm just a homer....but I would love to see different angled replays on that one.
 
This game has more of those game changing plays then most. Beckams TD, Gronks TD, Edelman's injury, Amendola's kick return, Brady's goal line int, Butler's kocking the football out of Beckams hand's to save a sure TD, the Giants dropping the sure int on the last Patriots drive and Ghost's game winning FG.
It was about time the football gods evened things out :)
I thought Butler and the other CB's competed well except for Rashaan Melvin who made me cringe when he was out there.
My EXACT sentiments when I saw him chasing his man in coverage.
This was the only time this season I yelled at my TV. On Butler's phantom PI, I won't repeat what I said but it wasn't PG rated. Gronk gets mauled running down the field and no call but Butler breathes on Beckam and gets a PI. On the other hand I thought we caught a break when Amendola was running the punt return back. I thought that we could have been called for blocking in the back as he was running down the sideline. I was glad they decided not to nitpick that one. The end of the game with the onside kick with the Giants tossing and fumbling the ball on purpose was wild. The Patriots played it well but I thought a penalty on the Giants could have been called. Thanks to replay they reversed the Beckham TD.
I should have had a foam brick to throw and save my voice. :cool:
I thought Chandler would be a huge weapon for us this season but I was wrong. The dropped ball when he was wide open has been that kind of season for Chandler. Makes some good plays and then screws up other ones. Don't think they have called too many plays where Chandler was the prime target this season. He is only targeted once or twice a game.

Chandler has been disappointing at times, but rather having him play For us than AGAINST us. :D
 
That was how I read it. Brady couldn't have thrown to where LaFell was because there was a LB in the inside zone blocking that throwing lane. I would think LaFell was supposed to sit down there. That said, Brady said it was on him, and during the NBC highlights show, Rodney said that Tom threw it too late; which may be a case of him knowing the play and providing insight or simply guessing like the rest of us, but getting paid to do so.

There definitely was a LB moving over into the passing lane and if TB had led Lafell it would've been picked off by him. So either Brady should have thrown it earlier or not at all, or Lafell was supposed to stop, but it wasn't a case of bad accuracy.
 
2. giants have one of the better pass protecting OLs in the league.....the pass rush was OK considering the pats blitzed like twice the entire game

I was interested by this and was surprised that the Pats didn't blitz more. I figured with Mayo in pass coverage, we'd hide his limitations with an occasional blitz, especially with a backup C and LG on the Giants line. The Chung blitz was awesome. He followed the motioning TE like he was in man coverage, and then looped around and forced Manning to scramble and throw it away. He really showed his experience there. I would have liked to see them test that OL a few more times.

The second half coverage with the 3-man rush did fairly well, aside from Chung letting Tye get by him on the play that got the Giants in position for their last TD, and the normal losses that come from one-on-one battles. Tye got ignored on a number of plays, mostly in the first half, and did some damage despite at least one bad drop. I understand focusing on taking away the opponents biggest strengths, but ignoring players is a step too far. I'm sure BB will be asking his players today whether the 265# guy in the Navy blue jersey was invisible from their angle on the field, because he sure was obvious to the camera and his QB.
 
A couple of new points now that my computer is charged for another hour or so. My computer is dying my friends, and it is tough to watch. On to the next one. ;)

1. As an extension to my point that more and more teams are going to the philosophy that it's OK to throw the ball to a covered receiver because in an age where the rules so drastically favor the offense, big receivers (6'2+) abound and are almost ALWAYS bigger than the coverage people, and when you throw a ball up for grabs, the odds are in your favor that something good will happen. (catch or penalty).

That is NOT the philosophy that we run here. Brady has spent the last 15 years being hardwired NOT to throw to covered receivers. Receivers, for the most part, have to get se.paration in order to see the ball. The back shoulder throw when the DB has his back turned, is without a doubt nearly impossible to cover if its thrown well. It shouldn't be a shock that Brady rarely throws that pass, and when he does, it usually doesn't end well. Clearly Brady isn't comfortable throwing that kind of ball. It goes against 15 years of training and execution.

That is why we've always had the short, shifty, quick guy in our offense. This year we were blessed with THREE of them. Now we are down to 1, and I think its time that Josh and Brady start to think more vertically and join the crowd, even if its just a bit. When we go 4 wide now, aside from Amendola, we will have Dobson, Lafell, and Gronk out there. Those are all guys 6'3 and over. Different skill sets require different schemes.

2, Losing Edelman had a huge impact on the offense. It was bigger because it happened during the game. It will be a little less painful going forward because we will have a full week to prepare for it. And what does this team do better than any team in the league? Prepare for games. Look for the Pats to think more vertical next week for all the reasons I mentioned above.

3. This might be blasphemy, but there was a very small part of me that could have lived with a loss. It would have ended all the 16-0 talk, plus we had a ton of excuses ready made to ease the pain. I know I'm not alone in that thinking. ;)

4. Very impressed with the Giants. They have injury issues of there own (Anukamara, Cruz, Donnell, the DT, Beason, and had 2 starting OLmen missing by the start of the 2nd half, and that's just off the top of my head), yet they played hard and that offense looked very effective. As they get some of their guys back I think they will prove to be a very hard out if they get into the playoffs. I should remind you, that in 2001, The Pats lost a hard fought game, at home, to what was the consensus class of the league to go 5-5. They didn't lose another game that season. Spooky.

5. That being said, there were almost as many should'ves and would'ves in this game for the Giants as we had in those 2 superbowls. The worst was the time management at the end of the game.

6. How many of you were half hoping that the throw to Beckham at the end of the the game was ruled a TD. That would have put the Pats down 6 with 201 to play and a TO. I could have lived with that. Especially when you figured that if the clock had been managed well, the Pats would have been left with just a minute and no TO's to get into FG range.

7. We've managed to OL disaster for 3 games now. The effects are starting to show, and people need to be coming back. BTW- It's not so much the talent, but the experience. No one out there last night had much. Kline in his 3rd year was the "old man". How ridiculous is that.

That being said. Shaq Mason can run. He is a monster when he pulls. I think that kid will be an all pro some time in the future.
 
Clearly Brady isn't comfortable throwing that kind of ball. It goes against 15 years of training and execution.

Then he should work at getting comfortable with it. There's no reason he cannot. He generally whips the back shoulder so fast and short of the target it's impossible for the receiver to make a catch. On the deep ball he puts too much air under it most of the time. The balls to Gronk and LaFell he didn't, contrary to Phil Simms point of view, and they were caught. He needs to throw it flatter like Eli and Flacco who excel at the one thing Tom lacks.


That being said. Shaq Mason can run. He is a monster when he pulls. I think that kid will be an all pro some time in the future.

I don't know why they didn't pull him more. It was successful every time. Blount after the first drive struggled between the tackles. They should have let Mason pull all night.
 
I think Brady is sick, in the illness sort of way. He looked gray, didn't have his usual animation, like he was husbanding what energy he could muster and had a vacant 5-mile stare when he wasn't actually interacting with someone.

Perhaps, it was from leading an almost new lineup and getting banged a lot? Lots of Pats fans were going on and on about the injuries, particularly after Edelman went down. However, my main concern was that TB might not get protected as he should, given the circumstances (i.e. new players in new positions, etc...). I'm sure he was a bit frustrated and at the same time understands the situation on the field better than anyone...except maybe the guy in the hoodie.

Ultimately, I was sure that this type of win- barring further injuries -would be a HUGE team-builder; get everybody into it. "That game definitely built some character," said Rob Gronkowski. Indeed it did! It reminds the whole team that everyone can/will contribute when called upon. :cool:

Personally, I found it to be most curious that the announcers were highlighting NYG injuries when the Pats went up by a point. All I could think was: Really? Are they really highlighting NYG injuries? :confused: As if the NEP wouldn't be up by 3 TDs if all of their injured players were in the lineup. :rolleyes:
 
Losing Edelman hurts but we are 9-0, so we have a little breathing room to make the playoffs. Losing Edelman now still gives us a chance to have him back for the playoffs. It's possible that we could have a healthy, rested Edelman for the playoffs if his recovery goes really well.

With Edelman out, teams remaining on the schedule will be guessing how the Pats will attack. Actually, all of us might be wondering the same thing, now. Methinks the guy in the hoodie will figure it out; show a new dimension that will improve the offense. And then when Edelman comes back, they'll be that much better.
 
Perhaps, it was from leading an almost new lineup and getting banged a lot? Lots of Pats fans were going on and on about the injuries, particularly after Edelman went down. However, my main concern was that TB might not get protected as he should, given the circumstances (i.e. new players in new positions, etc...). I'm sure he was a bit frustrated and at the same time understands the situation on the field better than anyone...except maybe the guy in the hoodie.
No doubt there are other factors but I'm still going with sick. We've seen it before - pretty much every season. There's a certain body language, a certain affect when he's sick that's different from when he's not. The good news on that is that he'll be past it for the next game and raring to go like his normal self. The bad news is that the bug is there. We know it has taken at least one out and others are almost certainly playing through it and still others have yet to have their turn. As long as the key guys are free of it for the high altitude game then I'm ok.
 
A couple of new points now that my computer is charged for another hour or so. My computer is dying my friends, and it is tough to watch. On to the next one. ;)

1. As an extension to my point that more and more teams are going to the philosophy that it's OK to throw the ball to a covered receiver because in an age where the rules so drastically favor the offense, big receivers (6'2+) abound and are almost ALWAYS bigger than the coverage people, and when you throw a ball up for grabs, the odds are in your favor that something good will happen. (catch or penalty).

That is NOT the philosophy that we run here. Brady has spent the last 15 years being hardwired NOT to throw to covered receivers. Receivers, for the most part, have to get se.paration in order to see the ball. The back shoulder throw when the DB has his back turned, is without a doubt nearly impossible to cover if its thrown well. It shouldn't be a shock that Brady rarely throws that pass, and when he does, it usually doesn't end well. Clearly Brady isn't comfortable throwing that kind of ball. It goes against 15 years of training and execution.

That is why we've always had the short, shifty, quick guy in our offense. This year we were blessed with THREE of them. Now we are down to 1, and I think its time that Josh and Brady start to think more vertically and join the crowd, even if its just a bit. When we go 4 wide now, aside from Amendola, we will have Dobson, Lafell, and Gronk out there. Those are all guys 6'3 and over. Different skill sets require different schemes.

2, Losing Edelman had a huge impact on the offense. It was bigger because it happened during the game. It will be a little less painful going forward because we will have a full week to prepare for it. And what does this team do better than any team in the league? Prepare for games. Look for the Pats to think more vertical next week for all the reasons I mentioned above.

3. This might be blasphemy, but there was a very small part of me that could have lived with a loss. It would have ended all the 16-0 talk, plus we had a ton of excuses ready made to ease the pain. I know I'm not alone in that thinking. ;)

4. Very impressed with the Giants. They have injury issues of there own (Anukamara, Cruz, Donnell, the DT, Beason, and had 2 starting OLmen missing by the start of the 2nd half, and that's just off the top of my head), yet they played hard and that offense looked very effective. As they get some of their guys back I think they will prove to be a very hard out if they get into the playoffs. I should remind you, that in 2001, The Pats lost a hard fought game, at home, to what was the consensus class of the league to go 5-5. They didn't lose another game that season. Spooky.

5. That being said, there were almost as many should'ves and would'ves in this game for the Giants as we had in those 2 superbowls. The worst was the time management at the end of the game.

6. How many of you were half hoping that the throw to Beckham at the end of the the game was ruled a TD. That would have put the Pats down 6 with 201 to play and a TO. I could have lived with that. Especially when you figured that if the clock had been managed well, the Pats would have been left with just a minute and no TO's to get into FG range.

7. We've managed to OL disaster for 3 games now. The effects are starting to show, and people need to be coming back. BTW- It's not so much the talent, but the experience. No one out there last night had much. Kline in his 3rd year was the "old man". How ridiculous is that.

That being said. Shaq Mason can run. He is a monster when he pulls. I think that kid will be an all pro some time in the future.

Looking back at the game, we did go vertical, in the 4th quarter. Gronk ripped off that 74 yard TD run after a 25 yard throw, and then Lafell picked up that 54 yard bomb from Brady. So I would expect to see the Pats go vertical against offenses now that their receiver dynamic has changed. They already did.
 
1. Same injury as Dez. He was out exactly 6 weeks, no?

4. Brady was working behind his 4th and 5th string tackles and missing 2 out of top 2 skill players. I think you expect too much.
I am somewhat worried by how often he's underthrowing guys open deep. Not sure if that's because he's being hindered from stepping into his throws or what, but it's been kind of a consistent problem for a couple of weeks.

6. Everybody is WAY too hard on Blount, a guy who's averaging 4.4 /hard/ cards a carry. Somehow everyone focuses only on the times he gets stood up and stopped and forgets the times he absolutely blows up people. There we're some of those yesterday. Remember that he too is working behind the 4th and 5th string tackles.

Bottom line, barring the JE injury, there's no reason to be disappointed in this game at all.
 
Ken, I'm surprised you haven't hung Melvin out to dry. He had probably the worst game of his NFL career, yesterday- giving up key completions, getting beat easily over the middle, DPI, etc.

You'd really call that the worst game of his career given how the only other game we've seen him play as Pats fans went?
 
DEFENSE
1) We need Collins back. Freeny is OK; Colllins in our best defensive player.
2) Coleman and Melvin would look better if there is more pressure on the quarterback. Jones and Ninkovich did a bit of that, but we need Collins.
3) We were lucky to survive Eli. I thought that we'd need another TD to beat him; kudos to Butler and Ryan.

OFFENSE
4) The offense didn't play well at all. It is really difficult to play without even one NFL quality OT on the line. The OL did very well, given who there are. To re-state the obvious, winning when all three of your top OT's are out is simply awesome. IMHO, we will have great difficulty against Buffalo if we don't have one of the OT's back.
5) We miss Lewis, but White played OK. There was criticism of Blount. I thought he played OK behind our very weak OL.
6) We'll miss Edelman a lot, but not as much as our OT's.
7) Amendola made a huge difference. His completion percentage is one of the best in the NFL. He had an awesome return. In addition, he fought for the extra yardage at the end of the game.
Of course, that probably made no difference since Gostkowski would probably have completed the field goal from 57 yards.

SPECIAL TEAMS
Wow! Just wow! BTW, Slater was knocked out yet again in what looked like a season ending injury, and yet again he got back in the game and contributed. And Gostkowski is one of the best kickers to have ever played the game. And we have awesome returners.
 
That was an odd play. Lafell drifted after his cut, which allowed the DB to undercut him. It looked, at first, as if LaFell was supposed to sit down. Had he done that, the ball would have been a perfect throw. Had he been supposed to cut hard, the throw would be behind him, but his route would have been a problem even with a perfect throw.

I don't know if we'll ever know for sure who blew that play, because Brady never blames his receivers, so we can't take his word for it.
I've got to disagree. Can't see any way that LaFell was supposed to just sit down so the ball would've been a perfect throw. Given the way the coverage was played that would've been broken up with an almost certain PI, and the Pats are playing to get a TD there not to get a penalty call. So I think there's no way Brady would expect Jojo to just stop where that ball would be a good throw. Brady just missed the throw IMHO. No need to deflect blame onto the received, even the GOAT QB isn't perfect. At least he was good enough to get Gost into range on the ultimate drive.
 
I've got to disagree. Can't see any way that LaFell was supposed to just sit down so the ball would've been a perfect throw.

Then there's nothing to discuss, because that's as plain as day.
 
I'm not sure how you can think Coleman looked good? BB would disagree as Melvin seemed to replace him in second half.

And you're right that this game showed how QBs will attack Pats. But I think it's less Jump Ball Joe and more find whoever the nickel back is covering and throw directly to him without thinking twice. Same as Rodgers last year. In retrospect that Daryl Robertson and Tarrel Brown injuries were big.
I thought Coleman sat because he was hurt. He certainly played better than Melvin when he was in there.
 
Even if you don't want to give it a click, the closing two sentences of the Patriots section of Bill Barnwell's article are great.

As long as Brady is at quarterback, Gronk is in the red zone, and Jordan Devey is on the 49ers, the offense should still be just fine. The Edelman injury just further lowers the Patriots' ceiling and reduces their margin for error.​

Barnwell: Which contenders should panic?
 
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