NY bans FanDuel & DraftKings

Deus Irae said:

You're tossing out strawmen. There is terrible poverty to be found throughout the country, regardless of where gambling is legal or illegal.

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Put a casino in every city or major town and it'd be much, much worse. Online gambling to an extent too, but there's much less attraction to sitting on your phone or computer all day gambling I think.

JetFan79 said:

Put a casino in every city or major town and it'd be much, much worse.

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That's another strawman, with nothing to support it. There are too many variables to run any decent studies on the matter.

Deus Irae said:

That's another strawman, with nothing to support it. There are too many variables to run any decent studies on the matter.

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Suppose you're right. Absent studies though I'll just have to go on what I've seen. Which leads me to my current view. In all fairness I could be wrong, but don't think so.

JetFan79 said:

Just take a walk around AC (off the "strip") or the same in Vegas. I've done both. Not pretty or the type of country I want to live in.

Sure the lotto exists. But c'mon there's a huge difference between the lotto and full fledged gambling. Could you drop your life's savings or Timmy's college fund on lotto tickets?.. sure but who does? People who really want to gamble? Yeah they can find bookies and card games around, but even that is very limited in comparison to full-fledged legalized gambling and the marketing that goes along with it.

Face it. Humans for the most part are freakin idiots. Even if, I dunno, say Jet fans aren't dumb, but perhaps Pats fans are (just kidding). I wouldn't want to live in a country stricken with insane amounts of poverty and crime in one major group of people even if it meant the smart ones prospered. Bad enough as it is now.

I'd guess you may not agree because of your mention of guns (which I do support responsible gun ownership btw) and that usually means a very conservative "government bad" view, but some basic government to protect the masses from themselves is a good thing.

Sorry if my assumption of you having conservative views is incorrect. Even if so, you know what I mean.

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I've been to AC and yes it is bad, but that is a result in my opinion (fully willing to be wrong in what is a deductive reasoning assumption) that the good times which brought prosperity(maybe too strong of a word) to the uneducated/poor was the same thing that pulled the rug out when things started to go bad. Only been there twice and it was the mid 2000's.

I lean conservative, yes. But I would say I am the essential independent. I don't associate with any party. I only mentioned guns because that seems to be the latest "government can solve it" issue. I could have just as easily used the fact that as a self-employed person that my monthly health care bill under Obama care dropped $200 bucks a month from 1100 to 900. But my wife's inhalers which used to be $80 a month are now $309 a month. We found an online pharmacy out of some island in the pacific that provides the generic version (not available in the US) for $139 for a 3 month supply. Or how we all have a $4500 deductible before most normal doctor visits are covered. I have two high school boys who play multiple sports, one had a screw put in his foot just over a year ago. I footed, no pun intended, the entire damn bill minus $300. But I save $200 a month on my premium, thanks Obama! Just had blood drawn for a physical the cost was around $250 apparently and guess what....I got the bill. Insurance company not responsible for a physical. But they just took the $945 out of my account on the first.

I am more of a common sense guy than an ideology guy. The liberals can go find their utopia of all things PC and the hard right can go find their sanctuaries. I would like to live with the majority and find ways to help each other regardless of our minor differences!

Sorry for the rant!

JetFan79 said:

Suppose you're right. Absent studies though I'll just have to go on what I've seen. Which leads me to my current view. In all fairness I could be wrong, but don't think so.

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Gambling is like any other vice: The issue is always going to be that some people get caught up in it. The solution to such things has never been government intervention and oversight. That just makes it worse in the end.

Come at these sorts of issues from a moral standpoint, and you'll always have a firm place to fall back upon. Come at them from any other standpoint, and the ground beneath you will always be shifting and treacherous.

Deus Irae said:

Gambling is like any other vice: The issue is always going to be that some people get caught up in it. The solution to such things has never been government intervention and oversight. That just makes it worse in the end.

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Well that's a view that definitely has merit. However I'd say you put too much faith in the masses. Some oversight keeps order IMHO. Many more people would get caught up in it if it were available in town and/or constantly marketed to them. Kinda like 46 draft kings commercials per game.

Deus Irae said:

Gambling is like any other vice: The issue is always going to be that some people get caught up in it. The solution to such things has never been government intervention and oversight. That just makes it worse in the end.

Come at these sorts of issues from a moral standpoint, and you'll always have a firm place to fall back upon. Come at them from any other standpoint, and the ground beneath you will always be shifting and treacherous.

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As you are a ware...al be it...we have our differences and disagreements. That second statement was very well stated. I couldn't agree more. Gray is the real area, would be nice if at least (like that?) 51% got that memo!

JetFan79 said:

Well that's a view that definitely has merit. However I'd say you put too much faith in the masses. Some oversight keeps order IMHO. Many more people would get caught up in it if it were available in town and/or constantly marketed to them. Kinda like 46 draft kings commercials per game.

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You misjudge me. I have no faith in the masses. I simply have no faith in the overseers, either, and applying my position to history shows my point of view to be right (Long term, not specific instances).

Faith in certain individuals? Absolutely, with the understanding that 'all' people have a breaking point.
Faith in some groups? To an extent
Faith in the general populace? There aren't enough mock laughter smileys for that.

I recently retired from FF. It's a great feeling. Now I can enjoy the game apart from rooting for teams I despise.

Jackson 2 said:

It reminds me of those scintillating moments when people insist upon showing me pictures of their f###### cats or dogs.

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JetFan79 said:

Put a casino in every city or major town and it'd be much, much worse. Online gambling to an extent too, but there's much less attraction to sitting on your phone or computer all day gambling I think.

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Poverty around Casinos is due to those people around it gambling too much??? Of course it is anecdotal to say ''look at AC'' -- but to indulge this I believe 36 states have a brick & mortar location that hosts gambling in various forms. Many of those states have multiple locations throughout various counties including, I believe, 18 New York counties. It would be my guess that a clear majority of Americans close to, I don't know, maybe two hours drive from one.
Regardless you are missing the big picture of (A) New York condones gambling. You/the "leaders" just want people to gamble the right way?? (B) Pragmatism: Stopping this on the Internet by......suing the ISPs, the Search providers, credit card companies that are in other states/countries? Going directly after Joe Schmoe who lost 50 bucks on the game because he is an dumbass Jet fan? Invading the Cayman Islands or Canada? (C) Historical context: what can happen when a large number amidst the masses want to do A and the government outlaws A? Everyone stops doing it and law and order is restored? How's that war on drugs going?? (D) Pragmatism 2: The Government is a finite commodity despite the masses belief it can do anything. Very serious crime will go unsolved and the enforcement officials will scream 'lack of funds & more resources needed' as they spend much valuable time tracking down joe scmoe's 50$ bet on the Internet. (E) It shouldn't be your business to tell people they can't do A without compelling and factual data that presents a compelling reason. Maybe you argue 'Casinos bring crime! Casinos bring poverty!' and who knows, maybe you are right. Yet performing this on the Internet does not bring a casino to your community. So can you at least conduct research on crime and poverty before saying it causes crime and poverty and 'it must be kept from people by law!'? I suspect it beats by a lot the compelling reason of 'you have to gamble the right way'.

Fyi, I have never gambled online once. Thought about it, and posted here, when the Pats Indy game spread was under 10 (good thing I didn't). But trips to Reno in my younger years killed my taste for handing my money over to gambling establishments. Now I am limited to handing it over to friends I bet with (though shouldn't that be enforced too? What if I bet a 1000 with my friend, shouldn't that be stopped?).

OhExaulted1 said:

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OK, folks...the white flag is up...I surrender!

Jackson 2 said:

OK, folks...the white flag is up...I surrender!

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Couldn't help myself , but I agree with your overall point.

Wordsmyth said:

I recently retired from FF. It's a great feeling. Now I can enjoy the game apart from rooting for teams I despise.

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If your experiencing withdrawl symptoms or other obsession:

Fantasy Football Addicts Anonymous

Help is out there and I pray for your recovery. You don't have to do this alone!

jays52 said:

The shakedown begins.

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Exactly. This is solely about a huge new economic engine and everyone wants their piece of it. It isn't going away. The government getting a piece of it is just a developmental step. Making it temporarily illegal is just a tactic.

Fantasy football is an immensely important part of keeping the NFL relevant throughout the season to a wide audience. Without it, half of the teams and players in the league are already irrelevant, because everyone knows they don't have a meaningful chance at the playoffs, and we are only in early November.

For the next 8-12 weeks, fans of Miami, Baltimore, Cleveland, Kansas City, San Diego, Jacksonville, Tennessee, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Chicago, Detroit, Washington, Dallas, and San Francisco would have largely lost interest. Instead, millions of them are now glued to their TV sets for the full NFL season as their interest shifts completely to individual players rather than teams. The list of teams will now grow with each passing week.

If the NFL brass had come up with this, it would have been one of the most brilliant innovations in modern times. But most of them lucked into it (Goodell and most of the owners again being born on third base) and will reap massive benefits from it.

U.S. history has demonstrated repeatedly that these things don't get regulated away, they just get regulated into a certain order.

Kraft was prescient when he bought in early.

QuantumMechanic said:

That's a common misconception, but a misconception nonetheless. The "federal exemption" does not declare that fantasy sports aren't gambling and it does not prevent states from considering fantasy sports to be illegal gambling.

The law in question is the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA). That law "prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments in connection with the participation of another person in a bet or wager that involves the use of the Internet and that is unlawful under any federal or state law." Fantasy sports are indeed exempted from that prohibition, but the law does not say fantasy sports are not gambling. It only says that whether or not they are, they aren't subject to the prohibition.

Anyhow, follow @WallachLegal on twitter. Between his own stuff and the links he posts you'll end up knowing more about this than you'd ever want to.

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I don't think I said what you think I said. I said gambling is not illegal. We appear to be saying the same thing.

Some states want to make it illegal, and they are doing it through the legislature as that's how a democracy works. I don't agree they should, but that's a different question. The NY AG apparently decided that was too much work, or maybe he isn't a fan of voters making decisions. This is like declaring today that sugar is an illegal drug that's was banned under a law 20 years ago.

NYers may want to ban fantasy sports, but that's not what they did. Unless someone can show how any of these laws were sold to the public as banning fantasy sports, then the public was sold a law that didn't include them (or the public was lied to). And of course, by the states actions they were not included. They operated openly for years with the laws on the books which belies the claim they have been illegal the whole time.

mgcolby said:

Two sides of every argument. How would legalized gambling seriously increase poverty? That statement makes a series of presumptions that are simply not true.
1. Gambling exist without limits with state run lotteries, tracks, casinos etc...I can walk into any casino or 7-11 with my life savings in tow and gamble it all. No moral stigma or government regulations attached to my particular wallet.

2. People will find a way to do what they want/desire regardless of law. Locks and laws only keep the honest/disinterested folks out!

3. Just like gun laws it only hampers the law abiding citizens without felonies. A criminal has access to guns without constraint. (And to anyone against guns, please spare me any "You are a gun lover" etc arguments. I own two weapons a 12 and 20 gauge shotgun that have trigger locks and have been locked away and not shot for over 9 years. thanks)

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Gun laws only hamper law abiders? So if your local non convicted crack dealer wanted a full auto ak47 and armour piercing shells he should just be able to walk into walmart sunday morning? I am also a shotgun owner, and gun laws hamper the ability of criminals to gain access and to the sophistication of the weapons they have.

It is gambling, These companies fan duel and such, exploited a loophole meant to keep fantasy sports at the same level as a friday night neighborhood poker game. This is organized gambling and they are operating without any regulatory oversight, as was shown when they were caught gambling on the opposing site.

This type of internet gambling hurts state lotteries and other gambling interests that pay funds to the state.

Bobsyouruncle said:

I don't think I said what you think I said. I said gambling is not illegal. We appear to be saying the same thing.

Some states want to make it illegal, and they are doing it through the legislature as that's how a democracy works. I don't agree they should, but that's a different question. The NY AG apparently decided that was too much work, or maybe he isn't a fan of voters making decisions. This is like declaring today that sugar is an illegal drug that's was banned under a law 20 years ago.

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That's a poor analogy. A better analogy would be the federal government legalizing marijuana (which they essentially have) but an individual state saying "not here, fellas."

The laws on the books in NY are clear. Gambling on sports is illegal. All the AG did was decide that hey, DFS fall under that blanket. And he's right. Also, he is not the first. Nevada made the same declaration a couple weeks ago. There are now 6 or 7 states which have outlawed DFS's. I expect eventually every single state will recognize DFS's are gambling. Some will decide to allow it, some will forbid it, but all will regulate it.